New User Issues
  • MorphOS Developer
    jacadcaps
    Posts: 3092 from 2003/3/5
    From: Canada
    4 other things come to mind:
    a) the 'ud' alias isn't valid
    b) 'ud' points to a wrong device (test with dev /aliases .properties) or so
    c) you've got more than 1 usb stick plugged in
    d) stick still somehow isn't readable by the OF, maybe your G5 has some very early OF version that doesn't handle FAT32

    I know you say you've formatted it on Sonoma... Did you use commandline or Disk Utility? DI *may* do a bad job. You could format the stick in HFS+ instead. OpenFirmware will read that for sure. Run a Terminal on macOS with the stick plugged in. Do a 'diskutil list' and figure out which /dev/disk* is your USB stick. Then do 'diskutil eraseDisk HFS+ USBstick APM /dev/disk*' replacing * with the right number (do check that twice before you hit enter ;) Copy the iso and boot.img to the usb stick and try again.

    Btw there's some reference of OpenFirmware commands here https://library.morph.zone/Open_Firmware
  • »10.09.24 - 20:32
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  • jPV
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    jPV
    Posts: 2077 from 2003/2/24
    From: po-RNO
    Quote:

    Kidon wrote:
    Thanks, but the internal DVD drive works fine. I successfully install Debian PPC64 on that machine, as well as Sorbet Leopard.
    I don't think it's the drive's fault.


    Some notes/suggestion about this solution:

    1) When you burned the MorphOS installation CD, did the disc work on some other machine? Did the other machine show MorphOS related files directly when you browsed your CD/DVD drive? There should be tens of directories and small files (like the MorphOS.readme file), and no ISO images there (sometimes people get the ISO image file burned on a disc, instead of actual contents).

    2) If you did burn the installation CD to a CD disc, try burning it to a DVD disc. CD and DVD mechanisms are separate in the drive, and sometimes it has happened that the CD part doesn't work while the DVD part does work still.

    3) Try burning to a disc that is a different brand, for some reason Verbatims never work on my machines :)
  • »11.09.24 - 06:35
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  • Caterpillar
    Caterpillar
    Posts: 35 from 2024/9/8
    Quote:

    Kidon wrote:
    Quote:

    Tcheko wrote:
    Quote:

    Kidon wrote:
    Quote:

    jacadcaps wrote:
    hd:,\\:tbxi would suggest a mistake in the command line you've typed. Try a stick no bigger than 32GB, FAT32/MBR formatted. Copy the ISO file to the stick, name it morphos.iso. Mount the ISO file and copy mac_ppc64/boot.img to the stick as well. Then in OpenFirmware: ud:,\boot.img bi umsd0:morphos.iso must work. Do make sure that :,\ are typed in correctly if yours isn't a USA keyboard!


    Thanks,

    I have a US keyboard, and everything is typed correctly.
    I just did exactly that on a 32Gb stick that I formatted in Sonoma FAT32/MBR
    On the stick there is only the morphos.iso and the boot.img from the mac_ppc64 folder.
    I still get the exact same error message...


    Did a 1GB partition or used the whole available space?

    Also, maybe give a shot with those hints: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/guide-new-method-booting-from-usb-on-powerpc-macs.2403368/




    Thanks.

    Whole partition.



    BTW, I did try with a 1Gb partition, but it didn't make any difference.
  • »11.09.24 - 10:34
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  • Just looking around
    Posts: 20 from 2022/8/17
    I actually never managed to boot form USB drive on my PCIe PMac (it is very picky about the kind of drives, as I read on some older, archived PMac forums).
    None of the USB sticks I used worked properly. The only way to update for me is to boot using a DVD. And it always works flawlessly.
  • »11.09.24 - 10:40
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  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    AKiLL
    Posts: 91 from 2006/3/6
    From: Naples, Italy
    Maybe superfluous to remind. Did you rename the ISO copied to the stick ? Currently, the name of the MorphOS latest iso file (3.18) downloadable from the main site is morphos-3.18.iso ... you've to rename it to morphos.iso to allow working the command you typed in Open Firmware as reported in your post #1.
  • »11.09.24 - 11:07
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  • Caterpillar
    Caterpillar
    Posts: 35 from 2024/9/8
    Quote:

    jacadcaps wrote:
    4 other things come to mind:
    a) the 'ud' alias isn't valid
    b) 'ud' points to a wrong device (test with dev /aliases .properties) or so
    c) you've got more than 1 usb stick plugged in
    d) stick still somehow isn't readable by the OF, maybe your G5 has some very early OF version that doesn't handle FAT32

    I know you say you've formatted it on Sonoma... Did you use commandline or Disk Utility? DI *may* do a bad job. You could format the stick in HFS+ instead. OpenFirmware will read that for sure. Run a Terminal on macOS with the stick plugged in. Do a 'diskutil list' and figure out which /dev/disk* is your USB stick. Then do 'diskutil eraseDisk HFS+ USBstick APM /dev/disk*' replacing * with the right number (do check that twice before you hit enter ;) Copy the iso and boot.img to the usb stick and try again.

    Btw there's some reference of OpenFirmware commands here https://library.morph.zone/Open_Firmware


    Point b) I did all that. I literally tried everything.
    Point c) I have only one single stick plugged in, and it shows as usb2/@drive2. I tried all 3 usb ports to no avail.
    Point d). Yep. I tried HFS+ and FAT32 with Disk Util, both with GUID, Apple Partition Map and MBR, as well as on a Win11 PC. Same error each time. There is something about wrong sectors size. You agree that only 2 things should be on the stick, right? morphos.iso and boot.img.

    BTW, none of them are mountable in MacOS.
  • »11.09.24 - 16:27
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  • Caterpillar
    Caterpillar
    Posts: 35 from 2024/9/8
    Quote:

    jPV wrote:
    Quote:

    Kidon wrote:
    Thanks, but the internal DVD drive works fine. I successfully install Debian PPC64 on that machine, as well as Sorbet Leopard.
    I don't think it's the drive's fault.


    Some notes/suggestion about this solution:

    1) When you burned the MorphOS installation CD, did the disc work on some other machine? Did the other machine show MorphOS related files directly when you browsed your CD/DVD drive? There should be tens of directories and small files (like the MorphOS.readme file), and no ISO images there (sometimes people get the ISO image file burned on a disc, instead of actual contents).

    2) If you did burn the installation CD to a CD disc, try burning it to a DVD disc. CD and DVD mechanisms are separate in the drive, and sometimes it has happened that the CD part doesn't work while the DVD part does work still.

    3) Try burning to a disc that is a different brand, for some reason Verbatims never work on my machines :)



    1). I don't have another machine that can read these CD's. I made a few... May I did it wrong... Unfortunately, to me, the instructions are not clear and detailled enough.
    On the USB, I tried both ways. All the files were copied to the stick, the boot was replaced with the correct one, and morphos.iso was also added. Nothing worked.

    2) The CD is fine. I burnt a CD with debian-12.0.0-ppc64-NETINST-1.iso, and it worked perfectly. The drive isn't the issue.

    3) I used TDK's
  • »11.09.24 - 16:34
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  • Caterpillar
    Caterpillar
    Posts: 35 from 2024/9/8
    Quote:

    DayWalker wrote:
    I actually never managed to boot form USB drive on my PCIe PMac (it is very picky about the kind of drives, as I read on some older, archived PMac forums).
    None of the USB sticks I used worked properly. The only way to update for me is to boot using a DVD. And it always works flawlessly.


    Hmmmm... I don't have any on hand. But I'm sure the TDK CD's work fine.
  • »11.09.24 - 16:36
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  • MorphOS Developer
    jacadcaps
    Posts: 3092 from 2003/3/5
    From: Canada
    Quote:

    Kidon wrote:
    Point d). Yep. I tried HFS+ and FAT32 with Disk Util, both with GUID, Apple Partition Map and MBR, as well as on a Win11 PC. Same error each time. There is something about wrong sectors size. You agree that only 2 things should be on the stick, right? morphos.iso and boot.img.



    Disk Utility *may* format the stick incorrectly, the commandline tool does a better job. It shouldn't matter if you have additional files on the stick - never did for me.

    Quote:


    BTW, none of them are mountable in MacOS.



    The ISO used to be mountable a couple of macOS versions ago. It's something Apple did that made macOS unable to mount it - we haven't changed the process we make those ISOs in many many years. The boot.img is not expected to be mountable on macOS, it's just a file extension naming conflict.
  • »11.09.24 - 16:46
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  • Caterpillar
    Caterpillar
    Posts: 35 from 2024/9/8
    Quote:

    AKiLL wrote:
    Maybe superfluous to remind. Did you rename the ISO copied to the stick ? Currently, the name of the MorphOS latest iso file (3.18) downloadable from the main site is morphos-3.18.iso ... you've to rename it to morphos.iso to allow working the command you typed in Open Firmware as reported in your post #1.



    Yes I did rename it to morphos.iso

    Thanks
  • »12.09.24 - 02:14
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  • Caterpillar
    Caterpillar
    Posts: 35 from 2024/9/8
    Quote:

    jacadcaps wrote:
    Quote:

    Kidon wrote:
    Point d). Yep. I tried HFS+ and FAT32 with Disk Util, both with GUID, Apple Partition Map and MBR, as well as on a Win11 PC. Same error each time. There is something about wrong sectors size. You agree that only 2 things should be on the stick, right? morphos.iso and boot.img.



    Quote:

    jacadcaps wrote:
    Disk Utility *may* format the stick incorrectly, the commandline tool does a better job. It shouldn't matter if you have additional files on the stick - never did for me.



    What I meant is that is it or is it not necessary to copy all the files from the morphos.iso to the USB stick along with those two files (boot.img - PPC64 & morphos.iso)? Because when I burn morphos.iso to a CD, it just extracts and burns them, and you can't add the correct boot.img afterwards nor add the morphos.iso file by itself. Maybe that's why the CD isn't booting, nor bootable... The whole process is not very clear. It's more trial and error.

    Thanks
  • »12.09.24 - 02:23
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Tcheko
    Posts: 530 from 2003/2/25
    From: France
    Quote:

    Kidon wrote:

    What I meant is that is it or is it not necessary to copy all the files from the morphos.iso to the USB stick along with those two files (boot.img - PPC64 & morphos.iso)? Because when I burn morphos.iso to a CD, it just extracts and burns them, and you can't add the correct boot.img afterwards nor add the morphos.iso file by itself. Maybe that's why the CD isn't booting, nor bootable... The whole process is not very clear. It's more trial and error.

    Thanks


    Just burn the iso to the CD with whatever burning tool you have. The CD should be browsable afterward. No rocket science here, that's ISO9660 rockridge thingy afair after all.

    If when browsing the CD you see a single file named like the iso, it is a fail, you should see a 'lot of' files and directories.

    No need to copy/add/mess with the iso content at all. It should just boot fine on any supported hardware.

    Also, if you extract the iso content to some 'smart burning directory' and burn down those files, it won't boot at all. You need to use a tool that is able to write directly the ISO to the CD: a *raw* burn of the ISO is needed.

    Dunno if it makes things clearer here.
    Quelque soit le chemin que tu prendras dans la vie, sache que tu auras des ampoules aux pieds.
    -------
    I need to practice my Kung Fu.
  • »12.09.24 - 06:23
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  • jPV
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    jPV
    Posts: 2077 from 2003/2/24
    From: po-RNO
    Quote:

    Kidon wrote:
    Quote:

    jPV wrote:
    1) When you burned the MorphOS installation CD, did the disc work on some other machine? Did the other machine show MorphOS related files directly when you browsed your CD/DVD drive? There should be tens of directories and small files (like the MorphOS.readme file), and no ISO images there (sometimes people get the ISO image file burned on a disc, instead of actual contents).


    1). I don't have another machine that can read these CD's. I made a few... May I did it wrong... Unfortunately, to me, the instructions are not clear and detailled enough.
    On the USB, I tried both ways. All the files were copied to the stick, the boot was replaced with the correct one, and morphos.iso was also added. Nothing worked.


    But you have another machine that has a working CD/DVD drive? But these CDs don't work on it? If you have succeeded to burn the standard ISO image to a CD, the contents of the disc (separate files and directories) should be visible on any OS/machine when you insert the disc in the drive. I have now tried to burn the current MorphOS Live CD image to a CD-RW disc on a Windows 10 machine, and the disc works just fine and I can browse the MorpOS system files on it on the Win10 machine, without having any ISO file involved anymore. I would first verify that your CD works "universally" on other machines before trying to boot from it on the MorphOS machine.

    In any case, never copy the actual MorphOS system files/dirs separately anywhere manually. If you use USB media, have the single ISO file (and the boot image file) on it without extracting any files from it. If you use CD, burn the ISO image on the disc in the traditional way how ISO files are meant to be burned originally before someone figured out to mount them on the fly. Don't mount/extract separate files to be burnt, but just select the ISO image to be burned in whichever way it's done in your OS (by an OS feature or a separate burning program).
  • »12.09.24 - 06:52
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  • Caterpillar
    Caterpillar
    Posts: 35 from 2024/9/8
    Quote:

    Tcheko wrote:

    Just burn the iso to the CD with whatever burning tool you have. The CD should be browsable afterward. No rocket science here, that's ISO9660 rockridge thingy afair after all.

    If when browsing the CD you see a single file named like the iso, it is a fail, you should see a 'lot of' files and directories.

    No need to copy/add/mess with the iso content at all. It should just boot fine on any supported hardware.



    Also, if you extract the iso content to some 'smart burning directory' and burn down those files, it won't boot at all. You need to use a tool that is able to write directly the ISO to the CD: a *raw* burn of the ISO is needed.

    Dunno if it makes things clearer here.

    Quote:



    I did exactly that several times on a windows machine. It is NOT working. MacOS cannot burn this .iso file.




  • »12.09.24 - 09:28
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    MoerBoer
    Posts: 226 from 2019/10/15
    I've burned multiple MorphOS ISO's from MacOS ( Sonoma ) and they work perfectly in my G5 machines.
  • »12.09.24 - 10:04
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  • Caterpillar
    Caterpillar
    Posts: 35 from 2024/9/8
    Quote:

    MoerBoer wrote:
    I've burned multiple MorphOS ISO's from MacOS ( Sonoma ) and they work perfectly in my G5 machines.


    You're lucky.
  • »12.09.24 - 16:39
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  • Caterpillar
    Caterpillar
    Posts: 35 from 2024/9/8
    Quote:

    jPV wrote:
    And you burned it from this kind of window on Windows?

    Is your MorphOS ISO image file size exactly 435 269 632 bytes?


    Yes

    I burned it on Windows 11, and I just even tried on XP. They are perfectly readable and browsable on windows. Sonoma can't open either the .iso or the burned CD.

    And the G5 is still not booting from it.
  • »12.09.24 - 16:43
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  • Caterpillar
    Caterpillar
    Posts: 35 from 2024/9/8
    Quote:

    jPV wrote:
    Quote:

    Kidon wrote:
    And the G5 is still not booting from it.


    Hmh.. and you have tried both Alt/Option key boot menu that the CD doesn't appear there, and booting from CD from Open Firmware? I don't know then... never had these kind of problems on my about 10 MorphOS compatible computers...


    Yep, the CD doesn't appear when invoking the boot picker. And of course nor does boot when pressing C. The Debian CD appears just fine in the boot picker, as are any MacOS boot DVD's. But Morphos... no bueno. Trust me, I've tried everything in the book.
    I downloaded it several times, from different machines and OS's to make sure the downloads were not corrupted. Still nada.

    I'm starting to either suspect the source, or something is definitely wrong with this Mac...

    [ Edited by Kidon 12.09.2024 - 22:45 ]
  • »12.09.24 - 18:27
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Amigaharry2
    Posts: 1275 from 2010/1/6
    From: EU-Austria (Wien)
    Did'nt read now all of that above, but: There are some firmwares on G5 which cannot read sticks bigger than 4GB!! Not only partitions - the whole stick must not have more than 4GB. And even than, some sticks are'nt readable (seems to depend of "firmware" in the stick itself....)

    If you have a smaller one, just format it FAT and copy something on it (just for test). Then plug it to the front-port of the G5 and turn him on.
    In OpenFirmware-Console type:
    >devalias

    Now device ud should be listed with following path: ht@0/f2000000/pci@4/usb@b,1/disk@1
    (If only one massstore USB-device is plugged in!!). If your path is different, please post it. This will be strange, because path is hardcoded to usb-port.

    If it occours then type:

    dir ud:\

    -> the content of ud should be listed!

    If this does'nt work, your stick may be "incompatible" - some sticks won't work, anyway the have 4GB or less..... you have to try another one, or better a USB-HD. To my experience HDs work in most cases and does'nt depend on over-all size (but first partition <4GB).

    If you don't see ud-device in devalias-list, then it's a bit more tricky, but there is also a way to acces a usb-port.
    Please post your firmware-version
    If everything above works, we can try to prepare stick for booting.

    If nothing works, there is a way to start boot.img via tftp-server (running on a PC):

    Copy boot.img to your tftp-server. Format a USB-Stick with SFS (FAT should also work) and copy the content of MorphOS-ISO (not the iso itself) on it and plug it to G5.

    boot in OF on MAC:

    > enet:<IP of server>, boot.img BD=USB

    Boot.img will be loaded and kernel starts. MorphOS includes a USB-stack and is able to boot the rest from every usb-device (finds the right USB automaticaly).





    [ Editiert durch Amigaharry2 13.09.2024 - 09:15 ]
    Peg2, 3xPowerMac G5, 2xPowerbookG4, 2x MacMiniG4, Efika (again), A3000T and life is never boring.....
  • »13.09.24 - 08:07
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  • Caterpillar
    Caterpillar
    Posts: 35 from 2024/9/8
    Quote:

    Amigaharry2 wrote:
    Did'nt read now all of that above, but: There are some firmwares on G5 which cannot read sticks bigger than 4GB!! Not only partitions - the whole stick must not have more than 4GB. And even than, some sticks are'nt readable (seems to depend of "firmware" in the stick itself....)

    If you have a smaller one, just format it FAT and copy something on it (just for test). Then plug it to the front-port of the G5 and turn him on.
    In OpenFirmware-Console type:
    >devalias

    Now device ud should be listed with following path: ht@0/f2000000/pci@4/usb@b,1/disk@1
    (If only one massstore USB-device is plugged in!!). If your path is different, please post it. This will be strange, because path is hardcoded to usb-port.

    If it occours then type:

    dir ud:\

    -> the content of ud should be listed!


    If this does'nt work, your stick may be "incompatible" - some sticks won't work, anyway the have 4GB or less..... you have to try another one, or better a USB-HD. To my experience HDs work in most cases and does'nt depend on over-all size (but first partition <4GB).

    If you don't see ud-device in devalias-list, then it's a bit more tricky, but there is also a way to acces a usb-port.
    Please post your firmware-version
    If everything above works, we can try to prepare stick for booting.

    If nothing works, there is a way to start boot.img via tftp-server (running on a PC):

    Copy boot.img to your tftp-server. Format a USB-Stick with SFS (FAT should also work) and copy the content of MorphOS-ISO (not the iso itself) on it and plug it to G5.

    boot in OF on MAC:

    > enet:<IP of server>, boot.img BD=USB

    Boot.img will be loaded and kernel starts. MorphOS includes a USB-stack and is able to boot the rest from every usb-device (finds the right USB automaticaly).





    [ Editiert durch Amigaharry2 13.09.2024 - 09:15 ]


    Thank you! I actually succeeded. See next post.
  • »13.09.24 - 18:36
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  • Caterpillar
    Caterpillar
    Posts: 35 from 2024/9/8
    Hi all,

    First of all, THANK YOU for your time and support!!!

    At this very moment, Morphos is installing. And here's what threw me off: The installation instructions: "If your Power Mac does not boot MorphOS or it has already booted another operating system, reboot and press and hold the 'C' key immediately after the welcome chime. Alternatively you can press and hold the Alt key to get to the Power Mac's boot menu."

    To boot from the CD, I needed to press and hold "ALT C" at boot, not just C. Either I'm an idiot for not remembering that, or the instructions are misleading.

    I've just successfully booted into Morphos for the very first time!!
  • »13.09.24 - 18:43
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  • Moderator
    Kronos
    Posts: 2308 from 2003/2/24
    Quote:

    Kidon wrote:

    To boot from the CD, I needed to press and hold "ALT C" at boot, not just C.



    "C" should boot from CD but isn't 100% reliable.

    "ALT" will get you into the boot menu, from which selecting the CD works pretty much always.

    "ALT C" doing anything other than 1 of the 2 would be news for me.
  • »13.09.24 - 19:23
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  • Caterpillar
    Caterpillar
    Posts: 35 from 2024/9/8
    Quote:

    Kronos wrote:
    Quote:

    Kidon wrote:

    To boot from the CD, I needed to press and hold "ALT C" at boot, not just C.



    "C" should boot from CD but isn't 100% reliable.

    "ALT" will get you into the boot menu, from which selecting the CD works pretty much always.

    "ALT C" doing anything other than 1 of the 2 would be news for me.


    Well, it was unexpected for me too, but it worked. As a matter of fact it's the only thing that worked after several days of trying... Go figure...

    "C" alone wasn't doing anything, and 'ALT" alone did't show the CD.
    And I've been using Mac's since the 80's...

    [ Edited by Kidon 13.09.2024 - 20:33 ]
  • »13.09.24 - 19:28
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