Ideal MorphOS hardware?
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    matt3
    Posts: 650 from 2004/2/10
    I was wondering what everyone would recommend for an ideal MorphOS system.

    Looking for:
    1. Quiet running system or at least close to it.
    2. Best possible performance.
    3. Dual monitor environment.

    So far in life I have played with PowerMac and I love the performance, but they run loud and since I use MorphOS almost all day every day, it wears on you.

    Love the powerbook, that almost seems like the idea system, but I need 2 real monitors to work on (preferably 3!).

    I use more OS for work and productivity constantly, and really love it. Still looking for the ideal hardware for me though!
  • »13.02.23 - 18:22
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  • MorphOS Developer
    jacadcaps
    Posts: 2950 from 2003/3/5
    From: Canada
    There's no hardware that'd give you 3 monitors. I think you just need good, comfortable noise cancelling headphones if the PMac noise is getting to you - although I find my 2.3GHz boxes quite OK in terms of noise, at least compared to the NVidia in my work PC, uhh.
  • »13.02.23 - 19:10
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    koszer
    Posts: 1246 from 2004/2/8
    From: Poland
    Quote:

    matt3 wrote:
    So far in life I have played with PowerMac and I love the performance, but they run loud and since I use MorphOS almost all day every day, it wears on you.



    I guess a passive cooled gfx card would help a lot with the noise.
    The CPU fans aren't that loud if everything is properly set up and maintained.
  • »13.02.23 - 20:08
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    matt3
    Posts: 650 from 2004/2/10
    My 2.3 did run quieter. Ideally then my 2.0 PCIe system may be the best fit once the system/video card issues are resolved.

    Really impressed with the PowerBook 1.67 17, it runs MorphOS very well. Switch to it for my daily driver, as it was perfect quiet and drive HD resolutions on my monitor.

    When I ran the 2.7 I had to have the windows open, or they got really loud. Insane really, perhaps the heatsink transplant doesn't get rid of heat as good as liquid cooling. The temperature readings in MorphOS were really similar however.

    I could try recalibrating again, since in MorphOS it reads 168 F and the fans should run quiet, but they don't/

    Maybe I will look into quiet fans for it and see what that might look like, in my research there wasn't a direct solution. You had to retrofit some fans an hope they worked or just wire them for a certain rpm.

    I would even consider the X5000 but I heard they are a lot slower than a powermac and they are crazy expensive and hard to find...

    Such a pain for a quiet and fast system.

    Quote:

    jacadcaps wrote:
    There's no hardware that'd give you 3 monitors. I think you just need good, comfortable noise cancelling headphones if the PMac noise is getting to you - although I find my 2.3GHz boxes quite OK in terms of noise, at least compared to the NVidia in my work PC, uhh.
  • »13.02.23 - 20:09
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12025 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > X5000 [...] are a lot slower than a powermac

    True for SIMD (obviously), floating point code and memory bandwidth. However, regarding integer code, a 2.0 GHz X5000 matches a 2.5 GHz G5. So it's a mixed bag overally and depends on the specific use cases.
  • »13.02.23 - 22:05
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    matt3
    Posts: 650 from 2004/2/10
    How about the iMac 20 Inch G5@2.1 Ghz? Do most of the features/items work on it? I assume it can drive a monitor like the Powerbook?

    Is that silent? 2.1 Ghz puts it faster than the 1.67 G4 and 20 Inches might be bearable?

    [ Edited by matt3 13.02.2023 - 18:22 ]
  • »13.02.23 - 23:21
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    NewSense
    Posts: 1458 from 2012/11/10
    From: Manchester, UK/GB
    @ matt3 - I've got an iMac G5 A1145 20" (inch) system that I use for MorphOS, and it's great. I also have a PwrBk A1138 and A1139 and they too are good, and probably better for dual monitor use, but their screens are not intrinsically as large as the component 20" screen of the iMac, but you could always add a larger screen via the PwrBk's 2nd screen output port. 8-D

    There is a 2nd screen output on the iMac but it's the mini VGA compact connector output type (Apple part 603-0607). I've got this cable for it, I just haven't currently needed to use it, but it does have some limitations, apart from it being VGA based. I'm not sure if it is supported by MorphOS actually, as the iMac is not as fully supported as it probably will be in v3.18 once that gets released, hopefully quite soon. ;-)

    Having the iMac's G5 2.1GHz CPU allows it to handle most stuff fairly well, but it is still struggling on some sites and with some online media, not that I watch much online, as if I want to view something that is YouTube based I download it, and then watch it without any issues as an .mp4 file on MorphOS. Rarely do the fans start up making a noise, though you can 'tweak' the fan speeds with Frank Mariak's iMacFanControl utility, not that I have needed to do so as yet. ;-)

    I swapped from a MacMini 1.5GHz (silent upgrade), which I also still have, onto the iMac and it was a good choice to upgrade to overall, though the iMac uses more power and is not as easy to disassemble to get to some of its components to upgrade or clean out the dust/fluff that accumulates over time/use. :-(

    The sound output though is much better than the MacMini . . . and it has audio input as well. 8-)

    Hope this information is of some use to you, and maybe others. :-D
    MacMini 1.5GHz,64MB VRAM, PowerBooks A1138/9 (Model 5,8/9),PowerMac G5 2.3GHz(DP), iMac A1145 2.1GHz 20", all with MorphOS v3.18+,Airport,Bluetooth,A1016 Keyboard,T-RB22 Mouse,DVD-RW-DL,MiniMax,Firewire/USB2 & MacOSX 10.4/5
  • »14.02.23 - 05:27
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    sailor
    Posts: 351 from 2019/5/9
    From: Central Bohemi...
    Quote:

    matt3 wrote:
    How about the iMac 20 Inch G5@2.1 Ghz? Do most of the features/items work on it? I assume it can drive a monitor like the Powerbook?

    Is that silent? 2.1 Ghz puts it faster than the 1.67 G4 and 20 Inches might be bearable?


    iMac G5 is silent only with low CPU usage. Maybe if you change internal fans for modern ones..
    Also iMac probably slower than X5000.
    Here is old comparison with MOS 3.15 ( Czech language ), iMac is often slower than X1000, and X5000 is faster than X1000 in most cases. And numbers in article for X1000 is with AmigaOS - MorphOS is more effective on same hw.

    If you look here on hardware, you can mentioned that your criteria meets only few, if any computers.

    1. Quiet running: only low-power machines, or X5000 if you properly set fan speed. Other possibility is change Powermac G4 or G5 for modern water cooling - it will be silent, if you do it right.

    2. Best performance: Powermacs or maybe X5000 ( I have no one, so I cannot say ). Performance of mentioned Powerbook also not top.

    3. Dual monitor: Powermacs, maybe X5000. For sure not Pegasos ;-)

    So you should test X5000 if fast enough and dual monitor capable, or make new water cooling in Powermac, or cancel some of your criteria ;-) ;-)


    Maybe also one wide 54" monitor serves you similar way as dual monitors - I am not know your usecases.
    AmigaOS3: Amiga 1200
    AmigaOS4: Micro A1-C, AmigaOne XE, Pegasos II, Sam440ep, Sam440ep-flex, AmigaOneX1000
    MorphOS: Efika 5200b, Pegasos I, Pegasos II, Powerbook G4, Mac Mini, iMac G5, Powermac G5 Quad
  • »14.02.23 - 05:41
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    MoerBoer
    Posts: 210 from 2019/10/15
    I have both the iMac 2.1Ghz and a Dual 2.5Ghz PM.

    Both run SSD's and both had their cooling systems redone. iMac cleaned properly and good thermal paste. PM's water cooling system totally rebuild with good thermal paste.

    Both keep quiet most of the time, but the iMac will spin up it's fans when you push it for a while at max frequency.

    The PM doesn't spin up the fans above normal speed no matter what I throw at it.

    Speed wise the iMac is really fine for most things (it's got a better GFX card than my PM), but for CPU tasks, the PM walks over the iMac ( especially with things like browsing )

    The iMac seems to handle the CPU scaling better (+- 45c idle) where as the PM pegs it at max frequency always and sits at a constant 71c.

    If I can get the top of the range AGP video card for the PM I would be very happy.
  • »14.02.23 - 06:46
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12025 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > numbers in article for X1000 is with AmigaOS -
    > MorphOS is more effective on same hw.

    Unfortunately, this is not verifiable on X1000 ;-)
  • »14.02.23 - 08:10
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12025 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > The iMac seems to handle the CPU scaling better [...]
    > where as the PM pegs it at max frequency always

    Yes, according to the MorphOS team, MorphOS runs the iMac's CPU at half the nominal clock rate (i.e. 1.05 GHz for the 20″ model) whenever CPU load is below a certain threshold. Would be nice to have this feature implemented in MorphOS for PowerMacs as well one day.
  • »14.02.23 - 08:26
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    sailor
    Posts: 351 from 2019/5/9
    From: Central Bohemi...
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > MorphOS is more effective on same hw.

    Unfortunately, this is not verifiable on X1000 ;-)


    It is perfectly verifiable on Pegasos 2.


    [ Edited by sailor 14.02.2023 - 11:02 ]
    AmigaOS3: Amiga 1200
    AmigaOS4: Micro A1-C, AmigaOne XE, Pegasos II, Sam440ep, Sam440ep-flex, AmigaOneX1000
    MorphOS: Efika 5200b, Pegasos I, Pegasos II, Powerbook G4, Mac Mini, iMac G5, Powermac G5 Quad
  • »14.02.23 - 10:01
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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    cip060
    Posts: 137 from 2010/7/30
    Imac G5 ISIGHT
  • »14.02.23 - 10:16
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    matt3
    Posts: 650 from 2004/2/10
    Where did you get your cooling system redone?

    Mine is sitting on my workbench since I moved it to air cooled, perhaps this might bring temps down a bit. Right now the 2.7 is at 75.7 and the fans are noisy! They frankly stay noisy between 75 and kick in to even higher rpm at around 78.

    Maybe the aircooling is problematic since you are calibrating with the pump connected and run it without it. According to the internet this should be fine...

    Quote:

    MoerBoer wrote:
    I have both the iMac 2.1Ghz and a Dual 2.5Ghz PM.

    Both run SSD's and both had their cooling systems redone. iMac cleaned properly and good thermal paste. PM's water cooling system totally rebuild with good thermal paste.

    Both keep quiet most of the time, but the iMac will spin up it's fans when you push it for a while at max frequency.

    The PM doesn't spin up the fans above normal speed no matter what I throw at it.

    Speed wise the iMac is really fine for most things (it's got a better GFX card than my PM), but for CPU tasks, the PM walks over the iMac ( especially with things like browsing )

    The iMac seems to handle the CPU scaling better (+- 45c idle) where as the PM pegs it at max frequency always and sits at a constant 71c.

    If I can get the top of the range AGP video card for the PM I would be very happy.
  • »14.02.23 - 12:12
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  • Moderator
    Kronos
    Posts: 2214 from 2003/2/24
    Quote:

    jacadcaps wrote:
    There's no hardware that'd give you 3 monitors.


    Tempted to hunt down a PCI Permedia just to proof you wrong 🤔

    Would be added to the PowerMac G4 alongside the AGP Radeon 9200 and PCI Voodoo3.


    Back2topic: G5 iSight iMac is the best option, only thar the 2nd monitor needs to support VGA.
  • »14.02.23 - 13:15
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  • MorphOS Developer
    jacadcaps
    Posts: 2950 from 2003/3/5
    From: Canada
    @ Kronos

    A PCI Permedia? That'd work great with a modern FHD monitor!

    The iMac only does VGA out as mentioned, so I kinda doubt that's acceptable. I don't think we actually support dual head on it.
  • »14.02.23 - 17:11
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    matt3
    Posts: 650 from 2004/2/10
    Quote:

    jacadcaps wrote:
    @ Kronos

    A PCI Permedia? That'd work great with a modern FHD monitor!

    The iMac only does VGA out as mentioned, so I kinda doubt that's acceptable. I don't think we actually support dual head on it.


    Yes, VGA is not good enough for me... So based on what I have read and what people have recommended, I'm going to continue down the road of trying to find a way to get a quiet powermac... Either that or the padded room for me :)...
  • »14.02.23 - 17:40
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  • Moderator
    Kronos
    Posts: 2214 from 2003/2/24
    Quote:

    jacadcaps wrote:
    @ Kronos

    A PCI Permedia? That'd work great with a modern FHD monitor!.



    Dunno should be as good/bad as the Voodoo which I used at FullHD for years.

    As for the iMac, that one got dual head support at the same time as the Powerbook and the 1st G5 specific AGP cards.


    [ Edited by Kronos 14.02.2023 - 20:11 ]
  • »14.02.23 - 19:10
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    discreetfx
    Posts: 380 from 2003/7/26
    From: Chicago, IL
    How's this for a speedy MorphOS daily driver?

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/225333049565?hash=item3476e578dd:g:eqQAAOSwtCVjtsti&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAAsN2E%2BOiNxDrHf1zW1laD%2BJdCLix0dSx%2FyjyerCUQ7a8epcVs0Iy6mA3GF%2F0qT9mNY3t1IqfCD7AX0%2BjX6tpZKabVxEPViwd6gmYjO3VY4lorHsrC7MxR2go9TdZnT4zfJN7HenjS6TSkNujr9BtTT%2BGIe4TAZ2LZh%2FWaoGqP1hGEWUsD974P7lYkB34q47jwwS3pOoaT54i8ctVJ7gGwdSA82hjifthahaQKaT8DMJ84%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR8LdjNzLYQ

    I always wanted a iMac G5 since my Dual PowerMac G5 died many many years ago. Now it just collects dust in the basement.
    DiscreetFX
    Making your
    Digital Films
    More Effective!
  • »17.02.23 - 04:07
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    NewSense
    Posts: 1458 from 2012/11/10
    From: Manchester, UK/GB
    @ discreetfx - Bill, you'd have to be Hungry for that Apple from Hungary - for what the seller wants for it ($275 + $209 shipping - all USD), as surely someone in the USA has a much cheaper one that's also boxed like that. 8-D

    The last boxed iMac G5 20" A1145 I bought, including courier costs, in the UK-GB, cost me a total of about £60 GBP - if that's any guide as to what is a fair price for these old systems - which is what makes MorphOS more affordable than the OS4 costs for hardware (generally) with the added benefit you can use them with Mac OSX PPC versions. 8-)
    MacMini 1.5GHz,64MB VRAM, PowerBooks A1138/9 (Model 5,8/9),PowerMac G5 2.3GHz(DP), iMac A1145 2.1GHz 20", all with MorphOS v3.18+,Airport,Bluetooth,A1016 Keyboard,T-RB22 Mouse,DVD-RW-DL,MiniMax,Firewire/USB2 & MacOSX 10.4/5
  • »17.02.23 - 06:43
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Amigaharry2
    Posts: 1195 from 2010/1/6
    From: EU-Austria (Wien)
    My experience after useing MOS since it's beginning as an ervery day system (even in my office):

    Every system from G4/ 1GHz (+Altivec) up to 2,7GHz G5 is useable for daily work and 95% of all available applications.
    None of these systems "feels" slow. There are not many "power-applications", which takes even a Peg2 to its performance limit.

    Only Wayfarer needs more (much more) power - but unfortunately no MOS-supported system can deliver that power today. I mean, it works, but some pages are "pure pain" to load and work (here you recognice, what a "powerfull engine" Webkit is)
    Peg2, 3xPowerMac G5, 2xPowerbookG4, 2x MacMiniG4, Efika (again), A3000T and life is never boring.....
  • »17.02.23 - 09:09
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    sailor
    Posts: 351 from 2019/5/9
    From: Central Bohemi...
    @Amigaharry2
    copy that

    in real I am using OWB for pages where it works - it is faster.
    Wayfarer is great for all modern pages.
    AmigaOS3: Amiga 1200
    AmigaOS4: Micro A1-C, AmigaOne XE, Pegasos II, Sam440ep, Sam440ep-flex, AmigaOneX1000
    MorphOS: Efika 5200b, Pegasos I, Pegasos II, Powerbook G4, Mac Mini, iMac G5, Powermac G5 Quad
  • »17.02.23 - 09:15
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12025 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > I am using OWB for pages where it works - it is faster.

    Yes, JavaScript JIT compiler for Wayfarer would be nice.
  • »17.02.23 - 09:45
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  • MorphOS Developer
    geit
    Posts: 1018 from 2004/9/23
    It always depends on your needs.

    I still prefer my trusty old 2001 PowerMac 933Mhz with 1,5GB RAM. With two displays connected to it and an standard SATA-SSD it is my personal work horse.

    Sure it is not the fastest systems, but I use it for all MorphOS development. Sure compiling is slower, but I tend to cleanup my cove while compiling anyway, so no bummer. I do not compile big stuff like email clients of browser.

    Also a slower computer is in my case a good thing, as I instantly see if something could be improved speed wise. :D



    [ Edited by geit 19.02.2023 - 00:29 ]
  • »18.02.23 - 23:28
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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    bennymee
    Posts: 132 from 2004/4/14
    From: Netherlands
    Quote:

    matt3 wrote:
    I was wondering what everyone would recommend for an ideal MorphOS system.

    Looking for:
    1. Quiet running system or at least close to it.
    2. Best possible performance.
    3. Dual monitor environment.

    So far in life I have played with PowerMac and I love the performance, but they run loud and since I use MorphOS almost all day every day, it wears on you.

    Love the powerbook, that almost seems like the idea system, but I need 2 real monitors to work on (preferably 3!).

    I use more OS for work and productivity constantly, and really love it. Still looking for the ideal hardware for me though!



    With 2. you could use the Powerbook G4 with a Matrox Dual- or Triplehead to multiply the DVI output of the laptop.
  • »19.02.23 - 11:04
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