How to make a G5 fans quiet?
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    matt3
    Posts: 658 from 2004/2/10
    I moved to a 2.7 GHz a few months ago and I'm trying to get the fans to spin less or find a quiet replacement.

    I should say that is was never this loud for the months that I have used it, just start spinning more. The temp in MOS has been constant really, so it isn't hotter according to the gauge...

    I have already:
    1. Clean everything internally including the fans.
    2. Calibrated the fans.
    3. Turn off one cpu.


    Does anyone have any words of wisdom to help me out?

    If I can't I will switch to my 2.0 PCIe system and go that route ( I was waiting until the video drivers were completed and the nic driver was released... but the fan noise is driving me CRAZY!!!!).

    Does anyone recommend a video card for the G5? I'm tempted to get a Apple version for now so I can get into bios and upgrade MorphOS.


    [ Edited by matt3 20.01.2023 - 11:44 ]
  • »20.01.23 - 17:33
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12077 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > I have already: […] Turn off one cpu.

    How did you do that?
  • »20.01.23 - 18:48
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    matt3
    Posts: 658 from 2004/2/10
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > I have already: […] Turn off one cpu.

    How did you do that?


    I used:
    setenv boot-args cpus=1
    reset-all
  • »20.01.23 - 18:55
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  • MorphOS Developer
    zukow
    Posts: 642 from 2005/2/9
    From: Poland
    setenv boot-args cpus=1

    it's something for macosx
  • »20.01.23 - 19:16
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    matt3
    Posts: 658 from 2004/2/10
    Quote:

    zukow wrote:
    setenv boot-args cpus=1

    it's something for macosx


    Ok, thanks! A friend shared that with me I didn't specify Morphos.

    I assumed since it was a bios command that it would just kill it for everything.


    [ Edited by matt3 20.01.2023 - 13:24 ]
  • »20.01.23 - 19:22
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12077 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > I didn't specify Morphos.

    There's a bullet point in the MorphOS 3.10 release notes which states that the 2nd CPU is disabled on PowerMac7 (which are all G5 Macs officially supported by MorphOS). But there've been findings reported in another thread based on temperature sensor signal suggesting that the 2nd CPU is not completely disabled.
  • »20.01.23 - 20:11
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  • MorphOS Developer
    jacadcaps
    Posts: 2972 from 2003/3/5
    From: Canada
    Are you sure this isn't just 1 fan dying?
  • »21.01.23 - 02:32
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    koszer
    Posts: 1246 from 2004/2/8
    From: Poland
    Quote:

    matt3 wrote:
    I moved to a 2.7 GHz a few months ago and I'm trying to get the fans to spin less or find a quiet replacement.

    I should say that is was never this loud for the months that I have used it, just start spinning more. The temp in MOS has been constant really, so it isn't hotter according to the gauge...


    If the temp is somewhat constant and the fans are running like crazy then it would mean your cooling system is not doing its job properly (and thus the fans must compensate for the rest of it). Check the liquid cooling system for leaks and/or check the cooling liquid level if you can. Make sure the pump is running as well.
  • »21.01.23 - 07:01
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    matt3
    Posts: 658 from 2004/2/10
    Quote:

    jacadcaps wrote:
    Are you sure this isn't just 1 fan dying?


    Great idea, didn't consider that. Will try and let you know.

    I did pull the trigger and order a 1900GT PPC PCIe mac radeon card and a nic for the PCIe Mac. It is a single chip dual core processor. Sadly it is only 2.0 but since there is only one chip, with a decent heatsink setup I hope it will be much quieter.

    I was hoping the PCIe video and faster bus, was a good trade off for the 700MHz loss. We shall see, if I can get the other quiet I will take it..
  • »21.01.23 - 19:27
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    matt3
    Posts: 658 from 2004/2/10
    Quote:

    koszer wrote:
    Quote:

    matt3 wrote:
    I moved to a 2.7 GHz a few months ago and I'm trying to get the fans to spin less or find a quiet replacement.

    I should say that is was never this loud for the months that I have used it, just start spinning more. The temp in MOS has been constant really, so it isn't hotter according to the gauge...


    If the temp is somewhat constant and the fans are running like crazy then it would mean your cooling system is not doing its job properly (and thus the fans must compensate for the rest of it). Check the liquid cooling system for leaks and/or check the cooling liquid level if you can. Make sure the pump is running as well.




    I converted it to air cooled by moving over the heatsinks from my 2.3 before I started using it months ago. The cooler was leaking very little and I didn't want to fight that battle.


    [ Edited by matt3 21.01.2023 - 13:31 ]
  • »21.01.23 - 19:30
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Doffo
    Posts: 507 from 2010/10/14
    From: Nevada
    Might be best to move over to your 2.0 pci express G5 as it is much faster. No LCS to deal with. :) If you get brave you can hunt down a 2.5 GHz dual core cpu module and do the swap. Buy a generic NIC card to use for now. X1950 cards are cheap to buy. Just buy a PC one and it will work for MorphOS. What I had to do was to keep in the Mac Geforce card in along with the PC x1950 so it would boot up and install... Once you are done installing MorphOS, you can remove the Mac Geforce video card.

    I have not messed with the G5 stuff in years but hope to find a PCI Express G5 again,but either a 2.0 or a 2.3 so I don't have to deal with the LCS. The Quad G5 I had leaked, as well as my friend's Quad G5. Both of our LCSs were of the 2 variants.

    Now I miss MorphOS.... :/
    -=-=-=-
    YUUUP!
  • »22.01.23 - 02:01
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    MoerBoer
    Posts: 210 from 2019/10/15
    I've recently did a total rebuild on my dual 2.5's LCS and it's humming along nicely now.

    Some questions :
    1. Did you redo the thermal calibration after converting to air cooled? This has to be done with the LCS pump still plugged in.
    2. Do you experience the same effect ( fans running high speed ) in OSX?
    3. At what temperature does your CPU(s) run in OSX vs MorphOS?

    One thing I noticed is that OSX is much better at reducing the frequency of the CPU(s) when not in use, thus the system generally runs a lot cooler than MorphOS ( My CPU's run at 45 and 48c in OSX but in MorphOS the main one is pegged at 71c)

    What I've learned is that MorphOS always runs the CPU's at max frequency no matter what, thus they will run hotter all the time.

    Hope this helps.
  • »22.01.23 - 08:37
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12077 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > 2.0 pci express G5 […] is much faster.

    Depends on the kind of workload, really. For compute-bound tasks, the 2.7 GHz PPC970FX is significantly faster than one core of the 2.0 GHz PPC970MP.

    > No LCS to deal with.

    According to comment #10, he doesn't have to deal with an LCS when using his 2.7 GHz machine.

    > Buy a generic NIC card to use for now.

    According to comment #9, that's what he did.

    > X1950 cards are cheap to buy. Just buy a PC one and it will work for MorphOS.

    According to comment #9, he ordered an X1900GT with PPC ROM. Unless he also wants to run Linux, that's to be preferred as this way, he can access OpenFirmware without the need for a 2nd graphics card.
  • »22.01.23 - 17:43
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12077 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > MorphOS always runs the CPU's at max frequency

    Yes, true for PowerMac G5. MorphOS can do dynamic frequency scaling (DFS2) on iMac G5 and 1.67 GHz PowerBook G4, though.


    Edit: Added info about iMac G5, see comment #16.

    [ Edited by Andreas_Wolf 24.01.2023 - 15:12 ]
  • »22.01.23 - 17:54
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Doffo
    Posts: 507 from 2010/10/14
    From: Nevada
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > 2.0 pci express G5 […] is much faster.

    Depends on the kind of workload, really. For compute-bound tasks, the 2.7 GHz PPC970FX is significantly faster than one core of the 2.0 GHz PPC970MP.

    > No LCS to deal with.

    According to comment #10, he doesn't have to deal with an LCS when using his 2.7 GHz machine.

    > Buy a generic NIC card to use for now.

    According to comment #9, that's what he did.

    > X1950 cards are cheap to buy. Just buy a PC one and it will work for MorphOS.

    According to comment #9, he ordered an X1900GT with PPC ROM. Unless he also wants to run Linux, that's to be preferred as this way, he can access OpenFirmware without the need for a 2nd graphics card.


    Hi Andreas_Wolf. Nice to still see you around.
    -=-=-=-
    YUUUP!
  • »23.01.23 - 19:20
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  • MorphOS Developer
    jacadcaps
    Posts: 2972 from 2003/3/5
    From: Canada
    iMac G5 does DFS2 as well, btw.
  • »24.01.23 - 12:33
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12077 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > iMac G5 does DFS2 as well, btw.

    I didn't know this. Fantastic to hear.
  • »24.01.23 - 15:10
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    matt3
    Posts: 658 from 2004/2/10
    Quote:

    MoerBoer wrote:
    I've recently did a total rebuild on my dual 2.5's LCS and it's humming along nicely now.

    Some questions :
    1. Did you redo the thermal calibration after converting to air cooled? This has to be done with the LCS pump still plugged in.
    2. Do you experience the same effect ( fans running high speed ) in OSX?
    3. At what temperature does your CPU(s) run in OSX vs MorphOS?

    One thing I noticed is that OSX is much better at reducing the frequency of the CPU(s) when not in use, thus the system generally runs a lot cooler than MorphOS ( My CPU's run at 45 and 48c in OSX but in MorphOS the main one is pegged at 71c)

    What I've learned is that MorphOS always runs the CPU's at max frequency no matter what, thus they will run hotter all the time.

    Hope this helps.


    Thanks for the help!

    Some questions :
    1. Did you redo the thermal calibration after converting to air cooled? This has to be done with the LCS pump still plugged in. Yes, I did plug in the LCS off to the side when I ran calibration. One cpu gave an error the other calibrated fine.
    2. Do you experience the same effect ( fans running high speed ) in OSX? I don't have OSX to test. The fans are not at full speed they just are running faster and when certain items happen (like when the rno widget changes the picture) the fans spin up for a moment.
    3. At what temperature does your CPU(s) run in OSX vs MorphOS? It runs around 168F to 172F, whenever it goes above 170 or so the fans spin up to bring them back down...

    I really wish there was a Nactua or similar silent solution, the drowning of the fans is very annoying.

    Are your fans loud in your powermac?


    [ Edited by matt3 24.01.2023 - 14:21 ]
  • »24.01.23 - 20:17
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    matt3
    Posts: 658 from 2004/2/10
    Quote:

    jacadcaps wrote:
    iMac G5 does DFS2 as well, btw.


    Nice to know, will the PowerMac ever get the same treatment? I'm used to the power and can use my PowerBook if I had to, but there is a significant speed differential.

    I can't wait, until the ISO shift happens and I can get a nice silent solution that has the power to do the job. I sit in a room with the box running all day and it is getting annoying...
  • »24.01.23 - 20:20
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    matt3
    Posts: 658 from 2004/2/10
    Quote:

    jacadcaps wrote:
    Are you sure this isn't just 1 fan dying?


    Replaced all the fans (minus the one wedged up by the DVD (did blow it out though) with the ones from my old 2.3 that seemed quieter. I also moved the box to another part of the office. With everything done, it seems a bit quieter, and it doesn't spin up as much. But it is still annoying, would love to find a way to silence the box...

    Thanks also for the instructions on how to run ASD from USB from another thread, it worked perfectly!
  • »24.01.23 - 20:25
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    matt3
    Posts: 658 from 2004/2/10
    In theory it should be possible to put Noctua fans in the unit. The wires are all black and coupled together to one connector (Joy...), not much on the internet about this.

    Going insane right now with the noise so I'm likely going to go this direction...

    Any comments or help is appreciated.
  • »25.01.23 - 20:31
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  • MorphOS Developer
    jacadcaps
    Posts: 2972 from 2003/3/5
    From: Canada
    What’s the noise level? If it is the „jet mode” like you get after a minute or so in OpenFirmware, then it is nothing MorphOS could solve. It means the thermal calibration data is bogus.
  • »25.01.23 - 21:31
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    matt3
    Posts: 658 from 2004/2/10
    Quote:

    jacadcaps wrote:
    What’s the noise level? If it is the „jet mode” like you get after a minute or so in OpenFirmware, then it is nothing MorphOS could solve. It means the thermal calibration data is bogus.


    No it turns on and boots normally, with regular fan speed/noise. The fan fluctuates, most of the time is in a higher setting but will settle down other times. I'm pretty certain all the sensors and calibrations are normal just the fan spins at a higher rate (not the jet mode) to keep the system cool.

    The temperature readings in MorphOS are similar to what they have always been since I started using this system. The fans however started to spin more in the last few weeks. Tried all the cleaning etc.

    Right now the fan is spinning faster and the CPU temp is 168.2F, normally the fan would be at a lower setting at that temp. Only when it creeped into the 170's did it run faster or when I watched a movie. Strange...

    If I open my windows and freeze myself the fans slow down to where they normally run. Snowing and cold so not interest in that :).

    When I converted to air cooled, the CPU temp readings in MorphOS from the liquid cooling and with the air cooled heatsinks were identical. I put a good amount of silver on the cpu and cleaned it up...

    Interesting the other CPU (claimed to be bad with calibration test) - used OF to 'disable' it, runs at 113.3f constantly. Remember in my 2.3 that the temps were much closer together...

    [ Edited by matt3 25.01.2023 - 16:24 ]
  • »25.01.23 - 22:10
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  • MorphOS Developer
    jacadcaps
    Posts: 2972 from 2003/3/5
    From: Canada
    MorphOS adjusts the fan speeds to stay below a fixed max temperature. If the fans are loduer than usual it means they need to rotate faster to keep the temps in check… or that they have reached their EOL.
  • »26.01.23 - 00:22
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    matt3
    Posts: 658 from 2004/2/10
    Quote:

    jacadcaps wrote:
    MorphOS adjusts the fan speeds to stay below a fixed max temperature. If the fans are loduer than usual it means they need to rotate faster to keep the temps in check… or that they have reached their EOL.


    Thanks Jaca, I will pursue Noctua fans...
  • »26.01.23 - 00:27
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