Accounting Software options and feedback
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    matt3
    Posts: 420 from 2004/2/10
    I'm choosing/get running accounting software on MOS.

    So far here are my findings:

    CheckItOut 2.01b- stopped working with MOS 3.16.
    HomeBank 3.1 - Started using and it occasionally goes of to mediation land when I work with payees. Seems like the filters don't work either and other features aren't done. I see that a newer version was released for AOS4.1 and they dropped MUI.
    Pretium 1.1 - Works for the most part but occasionally right clicking on the main checking window will stop working. Will comeback, but annoying. Pretium also lacks respectable reporting so it is somewhat limiting.

    Looks like perhaps Homebank may be the best (?) choice, since it is based in MUI and it supports MOS.

    Does anyone use these under MOS? If are your results the same? I realize there are browser/cloud based solutions I can run in Wayfarer, but I want to run the application natively in MOS.
  • »11.07.22 - 16:15
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  • MorphOS Developer
    jacadcaps
    Posts: 2667 from 2003/3/5
    From: Canada
    https://muibase.sourceforge.io/index?page=downloads_amiga
  • »11.07.22 - 18:20
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    matt3
    Posts: 420 from 2004/2/10
    @Andreas - Thanks for that, and you are right. Didn't fix the problem. Did a very quick test of Homebank on AOS 3.2 and it seemed ok. I would gladly pay a bounty to have this updated and working and updated to add USD, Miles, etc...

    @Jacek - Thanks, I tried the accounts sample in MUIBase and it just is to far off what I need. If I had time to learn and code a nice accounting package, life would be great!

    For now the only option is Pretium, if I want to use MOS. I might be able to work around the reporting if I play with it enough. In the end I will likely go back to CheckItOut on the 3k...

    Phasar 4.0 also seems to work, but it is real old school accounting and not really a good fit.
    EasyLedger 1 - tried that also and is old school as well.

    Tried a few other options like MUIbank and other Aminet options, no go for any of them.

    Shame really... Oh well. I almost got everything on native MOS.

    This kind of dove tails back into my feature request for MOS 3.18, to be more compatible with badly coded software than still works on the Amiga...

    In my travels I would rank the accounting software for the Amiga:

    CheckItOut - The best option for robust accounting and reporting (Balance sheet, income statements), filtering capability, fast transaction entry, decent muliaccount and splits and transfers. It isn't sexy like Homebank, but it has it where it counts. It would be great if it had modern drop downs, a few loose items were completed, and a more modern interface. This is the reason I bought it back in 92, I tested them back then and it does it all well.
    Pretium - Basic accounts, seems most stable modern option with MOS, reporting is very basic, weird payees (can't report them). Nice colors for the ledgers. In the end feels like an unfinished version 1 product.
    Homebank - nice interface with great dashboard features, reporting is decent but not a formal balance sheet and income statement, nothing is in units that I use in North America, some features not finished.
    The multitude of ones on Aminet either are really old and crash most modern Amiga systems or very basic.
    EasyLedgers and Phasar - both seem very stable in MOS, sadly they are 80's products with 80's UI and a structured accounting chart of accounts and old school ledgers, they may work but they are painful, reporting is ok for them both.




    [ Edited by matt3 11.07.2022 - 15:03 ]
  • »11.07.22 - 19:05
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  • MorphOS Developer
    jacadcaps
    Posts: 2667 from 2003/3/5
    From: Canada
    Matt, you still haven't told me what exactly are your problems with CheckItOut. The one issue I was able to repro didn't look like a showstoppper to me. Anyway, it won't get anywhere without a list of issues with repro steps.
  • »11.07.22 - 20:07
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    tolkien
    Posts: 448 from 2013/5/29
    For curiosity I have tried CheckItOut in my MorphOS machine and I have a problem that have observed with a few programs from a time to now.

    If I execute CheckItNow it shows me the guide document (??) then I close it and nothing happends.
    But if I remove the guide from CheckItOut directory the program starts correctly.

    And exactly the same happends with Ignition database program.

    AmiBlItz3 have guide problems too. It shows inline guide but not the correct node and shows it twice.

    And last was CubicIDE that guide inline help have been broken since a few MorphOS version as I wrote in a thread here.
    MorphOS: PowerMac G5 - PowerBook G4 - MacMini.
    Classic: Amiga 1200/060 - A500 PiStorm
  • »11.07.22 - 20:31
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    matt3
    Posts: 420 from 2004/2/10
    Hi Tolkien,

    That is exactly what it did for me in MOS 3.15, prior versions of MOS didn't bring up the guide at all. Now in 3.16/3.17 it doesn't show the guide but it will not quit properly and will give mediation errors randomly.

    Interesting that other apps have the same issue... That may help.



    Quote:

    tolkien wrote:
    For curiosity I have tried CheckItOut in my MorphOS machine and I have a problem that have observed with a few programs from a time to now.

    If I execute CheckItNow it shows me the guide document (??) then I close it and nothing happends.
    But if I remove the guide from CheckItOut directory the program starts correctly.

    And exactly the same happends with Ignition database program.

    AmiBlItz3 have guide problems too. It shows inline guide but not the correct node and shows it twice.

    And last was CubicIDE that guide inline help have been broken since a few MorphOS version as I wrote in a thread here.

  • »11.07.22 - 23:33
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    matt3
    Posts: 420 from 2004/2/10
    Quote:

    jacadcaps wrote:
    Matt, you still haven't told me what exactly are your problems with CheckItOut. The one issue I was able to repro didn't look like a showstoppper to me. Anyway, it won't get anywhere without a list of issues with repro steps.


    Send you emails with my findings.

    Thanks Jacadcaps!
  • »11.07.22 - 23:34
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  • MorphOS Developer
    jacadcaps
    Posts: 2667 from 2003/3/5
    From: Canada
    Quote:

    CheckItOut 2.01b- stopped working with MOS 3.16.


    Sorry but that simply isn't true. The only actual MorphOS problem you discovered is the double-click to maximize issue which I am going to investigate and fix for 3.18 (and which you can simply disable in settings if its a problem).

    I've had HammerD test the app on AmigaOS 3.2 and it will also quit without closing all of its windows. So, not a MorphOS bug. (again, a work-around exists: simply close the problem windows before you quit CheckItOut).

    As for occasional crashes: I've tried to get it to run on vanilla WB 3.1 from AmigaForver on Fab's EUAE. It crashes during initial database creation.

    I'd really like to help, but it doesn't look like the problems are MorphOS' fault.
  • »12.07.22 - 03:17
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    matt3
    Posts: 420 from 2004/2/10
    @Jacadcaps

    I have countless hours into this. I can assure you with 100% confidence that in my MOS and AOS system:

    1. CheckItOut runs flawlessly on my Amiga 3000D with 3.2.1.
    a. It loads every time without fail and I can create as many new accounts without a single failure.
    b. It quits and closes 100% of the time without any residual windows or screens being open.
    c. It loads multiple times with opening and closing the app and runs and closes out properly every time.
    d. I have left it running many hours in the background without any issues.

    2. CheckItOut runs with issues on my PM G5 with 3.17.
    a. It will load correctly and I can begin using it may lockup or work just fine.
    b. It never closes properly and will close all the windows except for the categories and will always leave the main screen open.
    c. I cannot reload CheckItOut until I reboot the box.
    d. If I leave it running in the background, MOS locks up sometimes.

    Perhaps it may be that I'm on the full registered version there may be the difference?

    To run CIO, I click on the finance file and not the CIO program. The finance file refences the 030 version when it loads. I would be happy to send you the full version if you want to take a look.

    I really appreciate you helping me with this.
  • »12.07.22 - 05:33
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Posts: 216 from 2003/7/28
    From: Canada
    @matt3 I tested CheckItOut on my A2000 running OS 3.2.1 and if you leave the preferences (or settings, I forget what it was called) window open and try to quit it will hang and leave that window open. It appears to be a bug/oversight in the program.



    [ Edited by HammerD 14.07.2022 - 15:42 ]
    A4000/060/PPC-200MHz, A4000T/060/PPC-233MHz, CD32, MicroA1, Pegasos 2 G4, AMD Phenom Quad Core 2.5GHz, MacMini 1.5GHz/64MB VRam...mwwmwahhh :)
  • »14.07.22 - 20:40
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    matt3
    Posts: 420 from 2004/2/10
    @ HammerD,

    Ha, I never left the preference window open in the last 25 years or so of using CIO. You are correct it does hand the system if you leave that open.

    But it seems you also confirmed that CIO works fine on a Amiga. Except for the bug you identified, it runs perfectly well on a classic Amiga and (by my experience) MOS 3.15 and earlier...



    Quote:

    HammerD wrote:
    @matt3 I tested CheckItOut on my A2000 running OS 3.2.1 and if you leave the preferences (or settings, I forget what it was called) window open and try to quit it will hang and leave that window open. It appears to be a bug/oversight in the program.


  • »18.07.22 - 16:01
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  • MorphOS Developer
    Piru
    Posts: 534 from 2003/2/24
    From: finland, the l...
    I spent couple of days trying to figure out the CheckItOut issue. I ended up reverse engineering the application, as well as doing runtime instrumentation of the application both in MorphOS and UAE.

    Here are some of the findings:

    1. The broken behaviour was not introduced in MorphOS 3.16. The app bugs out even with earlier MorphOS versions, but how badly it misbehaves depends on luck. Here "luck" means contents of memory, which can change in arbitrary manner between MorphOS releases, or even vary run-to-run. This also explains the randomness of the crashing. You can see the "hits" in the MorphOS ramdebug (or serial) log. At times the application can survive the illegal memory accesses, but sometimes the hit is serious enough that the application cannot continue and it will hang or crash.

    2. The application has bugs. It for example calls taglist functions with unterminated taglists. Whether that alone crashes depends on luck (or stack memory contents at the time of the function call).

    Yet, I cannot rule out the possibility that there is a bug in MorphOS, too. If there is, it predates MorphOS 3.16 however.

    The application misbehaviour is a complex interaction of various components inside the application, and could be related to timing or misfired/missing events. As a result a global variable will contain pointer to unexpected structure type. The code assumes the variable to point to a different type and ends up accessing memory at 0x73746572 - the contents of this memory area determines how exactly the app will misbehaves.

    At this stage I don't feel inclined to spend more time on this. This is a single application misbehaving and figuring the core reason for the misbehaviour could take weeks. It could still end up being due to well hidden bug in the application itself. It is just not worth the effort.

    While MorphOS attempts to be as compatible as possible, some applications just won't work. CheckItOut is one of them.

    [ Edited by Piru 20.07.2022 - 14:31 ]
  • »20.07.22 - 12:29
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  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    Georg
    Posts: 89 from 2004/4/7
    0x73746572 = "ster"
  • »20.07.22 - 14:16
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    ernsteiswuerfel
    Posts: 465 from 2015/6/18
    From: Funeralopolis
    Ch-check it out.
    Talos II. [Gentoo Linux] | PMac G5 11,2. PMac G4 3,6. PBook G4 5,8. [MorphOS 3.17 / Void Linux / Gentoo Linux] | Vampire V4 SA [ApolloOS / Amiga OS 3.2.1]
  • »20.07.22 - 14:45
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  • MorphOS Developer
    Piru
    Posts: 534 from 2003/2/24
    From: finland, the l...
    Quote:

    Georg wrote:
    0x73746572 = "ster"


    I know that it is "ster". The incorrect structure has the window title string ("Register: ...") and this is part of it. It doesn't help explain why the initial pointer points to a wrong structure.

    [ Edited by Piru 20.07.2022 - 20:45 ]
  • »20.07.22 - 18:44
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    matt3
    Posts: 420 from 2004/2/10
    @Piru

    Did you use the registered version that I sent Jadacaps? I think it is slightly different with the version on Aminet, based on what I have heard from Jadacaps.

    If you are interested, I would be willing to pay for the work to get it working.

    Worse case I can continue to use my 3000.

    Send me a PM to discuss further.
  • »20.07.22 - 20:48
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  • MorphOS Developer
    Piru
    Posts: 534 from 2003/2/24
    From: finland, the l...
    No. It doesn't make any difference.

    No I am not interested and no amount of money changes that.
  • »20.07.22 - 20:59
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Intuition
    Posts: 1103 from 2013/5/24
    From: Nederland
    Quote:

    matt3 wrote:

    Worse case I can continue to use my 3000.



    Can’t you just run it in E-UAE on MorphOS Matt?
    1.67GHz 15" PowerBook G4, 1GB RAM, 128MB Radeon 9700M Pro, 64GB SSD, MorphOS 3.15

    2.7GHz DP G5, 4GB RAM, 512MB Radeon X1950 Pro, 500GB SSHD, MorphOS 3.9
  • »20.07.22 - 21:31
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    matt3
    Posts: 420 from 2004/2/10
    @Piru
    Ok, very well.

    @Intuition
    I haven't used UAE on MOS, I may look into it at some point. For now the 3000D doesn't do anything anymore so I may as well give it a purpose.

    @All
    Sad that we don't have a respectable, native application for finance. Perhaps someday :).
  • »21.07.22 - 02:03
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  • MorphOS Developer
    geit
    Posts: 985 from 2004/9/23
    Quote:


    @All
    Sad that we don't have a respectable, native application for finance. Perhaps someday :).



    Well, get the source code to fix the bugs within the application would be a start.

    There is nothing we can do if the application does things wrong. You probably can run MungWall to see issues on 68k, too and the results will be crashes.
  • »21.07.22 - 12:49
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  • MorphOS Developer
    jacadcaps
    Posts: 2667 from 2003/3/5
    From: Canada
    Quote:

    geit wrote:
    Well, get the source code to fix the bugs within the application would be a start.



    Agreed. Matt, if you're willing to spend money on this, see if you can get the source code from the author (hopefully he still has those).
  • »21.07.22 - 13:34
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  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    Georg
    Posts: 89 from 2004/4/7
    Quote:

    Piru wrote:

    The application misbehaviour is a complex interaction ...


    Maybe it looks like that but is something very simple ... Like app doing GetAttr() with uninitizalized variable and object/gadget does not handle/know attribute in OM_GET. Maybe try adding some temp debug output warning to Intuition/GetAttr() (if taskname is "checkitout") (make it call the OM_GET method twice, once on a temp storage with preset magic value, once on the real storage pointer).

    It is known that boopsi based gadtools.library causes problems with stupid apps which rely on standard AOS non-boopsi based gadtools.library internal implementation, like checking for GTYP_STRGADGET (reqtools.library). And maybe other things like order of sub gadgets.
  • »21.07.22 - 17:14
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  • MorphOS Developer
    geit
    Posts: 985 from 2004/9/23
    MorphOS already has a ton of (debug) features than can be enabled for debugging. Many of them are not enabled, as the build in wipeout like functionality would kill a ton of tools and applications instantly, because they are just broken.

    It makes no sense to implement workarounds everywhere for some application here and one tool there.

    The right way is to fix the applications by fixing the source or by patching the binary like in the old days.

    But as said it makes no sense to implement workarounds for all broken 68k applications, because there is a lot of them especially when MorphOS starts to kill memory content on free everything goes south. Have a guess why those features are not enabled by default.
  • »22.07.22 - 00:36
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  • jPV
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    jPV
    Posts: 1891 from 2003/2/24
    From: po-RNO
    Quote:

    geit wrote:

    But as said it makes no sense to implement workarounds for all broken 68k applications, because there is a lot of them especially when MorphOS starts to kill memory content on free everything goes south. Have a guess why those features are not enabled by default.

    This is why I'm horrified to use OS3 at all anymore :) The good debug options in MorhpOS have revealed how much broken stuff there is on old software... no wonder they were relatively unstable mess at the end and users didn't have a clue, because there weren't proper debugging methods or CPU/memory speed to use them in practise. MorphOS is so much more confident to use nowadays, because broken programs are much easier to find and remove from your system.
  • »22.07.22 - 05:38
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