Help: my Power Mc G5 can't boot anymore :-(
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Daff
    Posts: 235 from 2003/4/5
    After a freeze of my Power Mac G5 (on MorphOS), I'm not able to boot it anymore. Here some informations:

    - I can access to the Open Firmware with Cmd+Alt+O+F and the boot menu with Alt.
    - But the boot process stay forever in a light grey screen (for MorphOS) or on Apple logo (for Mac OS X).
    - If I disconnect the two hard drives, the machine show a question marks (?). I know it's a normal behaviour.
    - If I insert the MorphOS CD and try to boot it, it go nowhere (grey screen).
    - I copied the files of the MorphOS hard drive on another machine. All the partition and files were OK.
    - I entered the Open Firmware to erase the nvram with the following commands:
    reset-nvram
    set-defaults
    reset-all
    ...it was all ok but the "reset-all" command. It takes very long and the fans get crazy after 3-4 minutes so I shut up the machine (should I have waited for more?)
    - Strange thing, after the first attempt to erase the nvram, I was able to boot Mac OS X once and only once. After less than one minute, Mac OS X diplayed a transparent black window indicating I must shut up the machine.
    - Since then, others attempts to boot fails. No MorphOS, no Mac OS X.

    Any idea?
    Obligement - L'Amiga au maximum
    http://obligement.free.fr
  • »06.08.20 - 20:00
    Profile Visit Website
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    koszer
    Posts: 1014 from 2004/2/8
    From: Poland
    My ideas:

    1. Run Apple Service Diagnostic live CD
    2. Swap CPUs and see if that helps.
  • »06.08.20 - 20:06
    Profile
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Daff
    Posts: 235 from 2003/4/5
    Thanks for your reply.

    I tried ASD version 2.6.3 (on archive.org)

    I booted it. There are two options:

    - the first seems to be for Mac OS 9. A window appeared and says my machine is not supported.
    - the second seems to be for Mac OS X. The boot process display the Apple logo and then the fans get crazy after 3-4 minutes (same behaviour as the Mac OS X on my hard drive).

    Is there another version of ASD for Power Mac G5?

    (Edit: the black transparent window is like this: https://i0.wp.com/i.postimg.cc/Fs7y7LV7/Capture-d-e-cran-2019-04-24-a-22-47-29.png?resize=400%2C247&ssl=1)

    [ Edited by Daff 07.08.2020 - 16:38 ]
    Obligement - L'Amiga au maximum
    http://obligement.free.fr
  • »07.08.20 - 15:26
    Profile Visit Website
  • MorphOS Developer
    jacadcaps
    Posts: 2098 from 2003/3/5
    From: Canada
    You need to find the right ASD for your hardware. From my exp it's best to run the classic ASD (non-OSX).
  • »07.08.20 - 16:04
    Profile Visit Website
  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4913 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    jacadcaps wrote:
    You need to find the right ASD for your hardware. From my exp it's best to run the classic ASD (non-OSX).


    Will that run on a G5? I'd have recommended an OSX ASD (like ASD v2.5.8), because it basically allows you to boot a stripped down version of OSX from the CD for the analysis.

    [ Edited by Jim 07.08.2020 - 12:17 ]
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »07.08.20 - 17:01
    Profile
  • MorphOS Developer
    jacadcaps
    Posts: 2098 from 2003/3/5
    From: Canada
    Did work perfectly fine for my PCIe G5s, while the OSX one would usually crash booting, so...
  • »07.08.20 - 17:06
    Profile Visit Website
  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4913 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    jacadcaps wrote:
    Did work perfectly fine for my PCIe G5s, while the OSX one would usually crash booting, so...


    So I guess running a Mach kernel based diagnostic package is less stable. Although that CD I mentioned can run in open firmware mode without an OS. Simpler interface and less tests, but it might be more stable.
    I'd assume the CD he ran can be run the same way.

    So which way did he run the tests?
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »07.08.20 - 17:38
    Profile
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    koszer
    Posts: 1014 from 2004/2/8
    From: Poland
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:
    So I guess running a Mach kernel based diagnostic package is less stable. Although that CD I mentioned can run in open firmware mode without an OS. Simpler interface and less tests, but it might be more stable.
    I'd assume the CD he ran can be run the same way.



    As far as I know it's the other way around - the OF mode offers more than the OS one. And the correct ASD for PowerMac G5 AGP is 2.5.8.
  • »08.08.20 - 09:48
    Profile
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Daff
    Posts: 235 from 2003/4/5
    I downloaded the ASD 2.5.8 and it works on my Power Mac G5 Dual 2.0 GHz.

    The tests were all OK, 0 error.

    But MorphOS/Mac OS X still can't boot.

    I have tried to disconnect the DVD: same result.
    I have tried to remove the lithium battery: same result.
    I have tried to remove the keyboard/mouse: same result.

    In Open Firmware, the command "reset-all" do nothing. While a "ok" is displayed for the the command "reset-nvram", the "ok" never happen (waiting 8 minutes) with "reset-all".

    I have also tried the command "Command + Alt + P + R" to erase the PRAM. It show a black screen and never reboot. And after a reboot, same result.
    Obligement - L'Amiga au maximum
    http://obligement.free.fr
  • »08.08.20 - 16:27
    Profile Visit Website
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    koszer
    Posts: 1014 from 2004/2/8
    From: Poland
    As the last resort - swap the CPU modules. If the computer boots up normally (but loud as hell) - just run the ASD again and do the thermal calibration.
  • »08.08.20 - 19:23
    Profile
  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4913 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    koszer wrote:
    As the last resort - swap the CPU modules. If the computer boots up normally (but loud as hell) - just run the ASD again and do the thermal calibration.


    Definitely a last resort, as its a PITA, and requires really long handled hex keys or a long driver with a socketed hex bit.
    But if its necessary...

    Are you sure he isn't having a memory issue?

    [ Edited by Jim 08.08.2020 - 17:16 ]
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »08.08.20 - 22:10
    Profile
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    koszer
    Posts: 1014 from 2004/2/8
    From: Poland
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:
    Are you sure he isn't having a memory issue?


    If all the ASD tests went fine... The mem tests are quite torough.
  • »08.08.20 - 22:24
    Profile
  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    Posts: 62 from 2017/8/7
    @Daff
    Can you boot from any external (FireWire) device?

    Does TargetMode work?
  • »08.08.20 - 22:25
    Profile
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Daff
    Posts: 235 from 2003/4/5
    @koszer: I don't have the adequat tools to remove the CPU. So I will try other ideas for now.

    @amifrog: I have no FireWire device. Even if it works, the boot problem with MorphOS HD will be present.

    I will try different memory.
    Obligement - L'Amiga au maximum
    http://obligement.free.fr
  • »09.08.20 - 15:02
    Profile Visit Website
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    amigadave
    Posts: 2737 from 2006/3/21
    From: Lake Arrowhead...
    Quote:

    Daff wrote:
    @koszer: I don't have the adequat tools to remove the CPU. So I will try other ideas for now.

    @amifrog: I have no FireWire device. Even if it works, the boot problem with MorphOS HD will be present.

    I will try different memory.


    I think you should try a different MorphOS CD, or booting from a USB memory stick, as old optical drives are known to be flaky from time to time. Or, if you have access to a 2nd optical drive that you can connect to your G5, maybe that will allow you to boot both MorphOS and MacOSX CD's/DVD's?

    Edit: As for why your installation of MorphOS on your hdd is not booting, I don't have an answer, and there may be more than one problem with your G5. Perhaps it is something more serious, like a logic board fault, and my suggestion regarding the optical drive being at fault is false. I admit I didn't fully read all of this thread before my initial response above. Good luck finding a solution.

    [ Edited by amigadave 09.08.2020 - 12:03 ]
    MorphOS - The best Next Gen Amiga choice.
  • »09.08.20 - 19:32
    Profile
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Amigaharry2
    Posts: 720 from 2010/1/6
    From: EU-Austria (Wien)
    First a few things should be checked - maybe something went wrong at OF-startup.....

    Go to Open Firmware and type printenv and post the output here (Photo).
    Next type devalias and post it here too.

    Post the layout of your HD here with the device-names (not the disk-names, which normaly appears on Ambient-desktop).

    The next step after that will be listening content of boot-partition (MAC-HFS-partition) and try to boot MorphOS-kernel manualy (if it is there).
    Peg2, 3xPowerMac G5, 2xPowerbookG4, 2x MacMiniG4, Efika (again), A3000T and life is never boring.....
  • »09.08.20 - 21:01
    Profile
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Daff
    Posts: 235 from 2003/4/5
    @amigadave, @Amigaharry2: thanks for your reply.

    I have tried others ideas like:

    - tring different memory configurations (512 MB to 3 GB with diffrent sticks): no result.
    - booting the Mac OS X DVD (10.4): no result.

    Here the screengrabs for Amigaharry2:

    Printenv
    http://obligement.free.fr/temp/printenv_g5.jpg

    Devalias
    http://obligement.free.fr/temp/devalias_g5.jpg

    layout DH0 (Boot + Mac OS X)
    http://obligement.free.fr/temp/dh0_boot_macosx_g5.png

    layout DH1 (MorphOS partitions (the Boot partition is here desactived)
    http://obligement.free.fr/temp/dh1_morphos_g5.png
    Obligement - L'Amiga au maximum
    http://obligement.free.fr
  • »10.08.20 - 15:43
    Profile Visit Website
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Amigaharry2
    Posts: 720 from 2010/1/6
    From: EU-Austria (Wien)
    MOS-HD:

    On DH0: (first partition): Is there the Kernel for G5 (64-Bit-type) located and named boot.img?
    What is your Morphos-boot-partition? Morphos or Morphos2 ? Which one is set to bootable and to what priority?

    If kernel is copied to DH0: and this HD is fittet to the first SATA-Channel of the G5, try to boot from OF:

    mac-boot hd:\boot.img BD=MorphOS (or MorpOS2 -wherever your MorpOS-System is located)

    Make sure that the right kernel is on DH0: It will be found on MOS-ISO in drawer mac-ppc64.
    Then make sure that your MorphOS-System-partition is marked bootable. Do not mount the 2nd HD to your MAC during this tests.

    If this works, we can see further what to do.
    Btw: I don't think that this is a hardware-issue

    MACOS:
    OF is searching for a so called "tbxi"-signed file on all partitions, which is in fact a bootloader. OF should find that file on your Mac-partition, which seems to be the 5th on your second HD. (btw.: MOS uses the same mechanism for autoboot).
    Maybe there went something wrong with MAC-bootloader and MOS-bootloader. Lets see first what happens if yo try to boot MOS manually as discribed above.
    Peg2, 3xPowerMac G5, 2xPowerbookG4, 2x MacMiniG4, Efika (again), A3000T and life is never boring.....
  • »10.08.20 - 22:09
    Profile
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Daff
    Posts: 235 from 2003/4/5
    mac-boot hd:\boot.img BD=MorphOS

    -> it launch Mac OS X and hangs on the screen with the Apple logo (so no result)

    boot hd:\boot.img BD=MorphOS

    -> message "can't find "boot.img"" or something like that.


    BTW, I have connected the two harddrives on another Power Mac G5. And I can boot Mac OS X, MorphOS and the MorphOS CD.

    So it's not an hardware problem (as ASD 2.5.8 says) and not a harddrive/system problem (since I can boot with the very same harddrives on another machine).

    I guess it's a PRAM problem but since I can't erase/reinitialise it (with the reset button on the mother board ou with the command on the Open Firmware), I'm stuck. :-(
    Obligement - L'Amiga au maximum
    http://obligement.free.fr
  • »11.08.20 - 15:32
    Profile Visit Website
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    koszer
    Posts: 1014 from 2004/2/8
    From: Poland
    How many CPUs does the ASD see?
  • »11.08.20 - 16:56
    Profile
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Amigaharry2
    Posts: 720 from 2010/1/6
    From: EU-Austria (Wien)
    There is a small error in boot-commandsequence - missing "," - sorry:

    Try again:

    boot hd:,\boot.img BD=MorphOS

    or try

    dir hd:\ to see content of partition
    Peg2, 3xPowerMac G5, 2xPowerbookG4, 2x MacMiniG4, Efika (again), A3000T and life is never boring.....
  • »11.08.20 - 22:14
    Profile
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Daff
    Posts: 235 from 2003/4/5
    @koszer: I don't remember. But there were no error that there is 1 or 2 CPU. Did you know some error like this when the second CPU is faultly?

    @Amigaharry2: yes, your command was quite strange. ;-)
    I already tried the command line with "boot..." but it's the same result: no booting and a light grey screen
    Obligement - L'Amiga au maximum
    http://obligement.free.fr
  • »12.08.20 - 06:47
    Profile Visit Website
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Amigaharry2
    Posts: 720 from 2010/1/6
    From: EU-Austria (Wien)
    have you typed boot or mac-boot?
    Because I've seen that your bootcommand is set to mac-boot in your environment-variables.
    It seems that mac-boot alway tries to boot the mac-partition.

    So set in OF boot-command to boot:

    setenv boot-command boot (you may always switch back by reset-all)

    Your boot-device env-variable is set to search for MAC-tbxi - this could be a problem, you can set boot-device to hd:,\
    setenv boot-device hd:,\

    and now try boot hd:,\boot.img BD=MorphOS again.

    The devalias for HD seems to be set propper in OF

    But what happens with dir-command? Does dir hd:\ anything? If not, your HD isn't found........
    Did you see your HD when running diagnostic-CD? Should be listed in hardwareprofile with vendor-name or unknown.
    In case of "no media present" your HDs or cables may cause your problems. Are the powerlines OK and do the drives rotate?
    Peg2, 3xPowerMac G5, 2xPowerbookG4, 2x MacMiniG4, Efika (again), A3000T and life is never boring.....
  • »12.08.20 - 09:55
    Profile
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    koszer
    Posts: 1014 from 2004/2/8
    From: Poland
    Quote:

    Daff wrote:
    @koszer: I don't remember. But there were no error that there is 1 or 2 CPU. Did you know some error like this when the second CPU is faultly?


    I once had a dual 2,0 GHz PowerMac G5 that refused to boot (hang at grey screen and then after a short while the fans went wild). From what I remember ASD tests went OK, but strangely enough ASD could see only one CPU while there were two present. CPU swap did the trick (still the computer - even in OSX - saw only one of them, but the machine was booting OK). I ended up replacing the faulty CPU module with another one.
  • »12.08.20 - 14:51
    Profile
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Daff
    Posts: 235 from 2003/4/5
    -> setenv boot-command boot

    same result (light grey screen)

    ->boot hd:,\boot.img BD=MorphOS

    same result.

    -> dir hd:\

    http://obligement.free.fr/temp/powermacg5_dirhd.jpg
    (I have reinstalled MorphOS on the first HD. So now it's a fresh defaukt install, without Mac OS X, and the partition system is named "System")

    -> Did you see your HD when running diagnostic-CD?

    Yes, two hardrives (160 GB and 1000 GB) + the DVD reader:
    http://obligement.free.fr/temp/powermacg5_asd_massstorage.jpg

    -> Booting from the Open Firmware

    "DO-QUIESCE finished" message and nothing more.
    http://obligement.free.fr/temp/powermacg5_bootmacppc64.jpg
    Obligement - L'Amiga au maximum
    http://obligement.free.fr
  • »12.08.20 - 16:33
    Profile Visit Website