Scandal and Mustek Bearpaw probs...
  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Posts: 142 from 2013/8/25
    Hello,

    I'm using Scandal 1.9 under MorphOS 3.12 on a PowerBook G4 17", with a Packard Bell Diamond 1200 Plus (a re-badged Mustek Bearpaw). This sort-of works, with probably about 1 in 3 scanning attempts successful. The other 2 out of 3 times though, it starts to move the scanning head before failing with a "Bad Parameter" error from Scandal.

    I've tried to hone down the error to see if certain setting combinations were causing it (e.g. certain resolutions or colour/line art/greyscale settings the scanner didn't like). I've also tried to see if any errors were being flagged by Snoopium, but to no avail. I've even opened the scanner up and carefully greased the scanning rail - as I wondered if this was sticking on these occassions and causing some safety stop mechanism.

    Has anyone had any similar issues to this with Scandal? Would be great to have a reliable scanning solution under MorphOS.

    Many thanks
  • »06.05.20 - 04:14
    Profile
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Amigaharry2
    Posts: 790 from 2010/1/6
    From: EU-Austria (Wien)
    Yes, same issue here with Epson-scanner. This only accours on Apple-Computers - on Pegasos or Efika are no problems.
    This issue seems to accurs first with MOS3.10. I made a ticket about some time ago.
    I don't know whether this only applies to USB-connection, or SCSI too (have a SCSI-Card but no SCSI-Scanner to test).
    Peg2, 3xPowerMac G5, 2xPowerbookG4, 2x MacMiniG4, Efika (again), A3000T and life is never boring.....
  • »06.05.20 - 06:49
    Profile
  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Posts: 142 from 2013/8/25
    Ah, interesting. Ok. Thanks. At least that prevents me sourcing another scanner for it. Might try different software.

    Cheers
  • »07.05.20 - 04:16
    Profile
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    NewSense
    Posts: 1012 from 2012/11/10
    From: Manchester, UK/GB
    Quote:

    Amigaharry2 wrote: Yes, same issue here with Epson-scanner. ...] I don't know whether this only applies to USB-connection, or SCSI too (have a SCSI-Card but no SCSI-Scanner to test).

    The Epson 1640SU scanner has both SCSI and USB ports and is a fairly reliable scanner on MorphOS, and has support for the ADF adapter as well. It works OK for me on MorphOS, but I find when it is disconneted/switched off after doing a bit of scanning that you cannot add another USB device/not recognised/mounted until you reboot. I have raised this with Zukow in the past, but not seen/heard back that this issue has been addressed as yet. :-(
    MacMini 1.5GHz,10,2,64MB VRAM,1GB,Airport, Bluetooth,A1016 Keyboard,T-RB22 Mouse,DVD-RW-DL+CD-RW,Iomega MiniMax,Belkin 6 port 3 x Firewire/3 x, USB2, MorphOS 3.12, Mac OSX 10.4/10.5, A1138+A1139 PwrBk MOS v3.12,Model 5,8/5,9, & PowerMac G5 2.3GHz(DP)
  • »07.05.20 - 05:17
    Profile
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Amigaharry2
    Posts: 790 from 2010/1/6
    From: EU-Austria (Wien)
    I've also a 1640SU, but SCSI-Port seems damaged....won't work, even with A3000 (SCSI-device not recognized), so no test possible.

    @newsense: are you useing a Mac with MOS?
    Peg2, 3xPowerMac G5, 2xPowerbookG4, 2x MacMiniG4, Efika (again), A3000T and life is never boring.....
  • »07.05.20 - 07:24
    Profile
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    NewSense
    Posts: 1012 from 2012/11/10
    From: Manchester, UK/GB
    Quote:

    Amigaharry2 wrote: I've also a 1640SU, but SCSI-Port seems damaged....won't work, even with A3000 (SCSI-device not recognized), so no test possible.

    I know the Epson 1640SU was going to be named the GT8700 scanner, but as Epson (Seiko) were renaming that series of scanner designs it was never named that officially, as far as I know, though on some sites the model is recognised.

    That said, I know the SCSI port on mine works OK, as I used to use it with my Classic Amiga setup, when I used ScanQuix with it, which is actually a better, fuller featured program IMHO than SCANdal, though SCANdal does have some benefits over ScanQuix.

    I just wish ScanQuix 3, 4 and 5 worked on MorphOS, as I'd swap back to that program if I could when using MorphOS.
    Quote:

    Amigaharry2 wrote: @newsense: are you useing a Mac with MOS?

    See my 'signature' - it's a 'dead' giveaway. 8-D

    [ Edited by NewSense 07.05.2020 - 22:22 ]
    MacMini 1.5GHz,10,2,64MB VRAM,1GB,Airport, Bluetooth,A1016 Keyboard,T-RB22 Mouse,DVD-RW-DL+CD-RW,Iomega MiniMax,Belkin 6 port 3 x Firewire/3 x, USB2, MorphOS 3.12, Mac OSX 10.4/10.5, A1138+A1139 PwrBk MOS v3.12,Model 5,8/5,9, & PowerMac G5 2.3GHz(DP)
  • »07.05.20 - 21:21
    Profile
  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Posts: 142 from 2013/8/25
    Is there any other easily sourced scanner software which works on MorphOS?
  • »08.05.20 - 04:10
    Profile
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    NewSense
    Posts: 1012 from 2012/11/10
    From: Manchester, UK/GB
    Actually I think Scanquix will initiate on MorphOS, it's just the practical part of there not being a direct support for SCSI on some of the Apple hardware, in particular as far as it concerns me, as I use a MacMini mainly, so there is no way to add-in a SCSI card or use parallel or serial leads, which are the primary devices it was intended/developed for it to be connected to Amiga hardware, not specifically to the Mac Mini - I only wish it had been.

    Andreas Gunther, author of ScanQuix did create a USB driver for some of the scanners of the time, and probably the Epson one he did work on would support the 1640SU scanner, but I don't have that USB add-in software.

    Having said that I haven't fiddled with the settings much over the last few years to see if it will recognise the Epson 1640SU on the usbscsi.device of Poseidon, so that is a possibility I suppose.

    If you've got a PowerMac with PCI slots you might try a SCSI card in those and see if ScanQuix would work that way. I do have a PowerMac G5 with PCI slots, and I have a few SCSI cards, but they are stored away, not easy to get at for the time being so that could be an option to try, and I haven't tried that option either at the moment.

    The issue for you might be getting hold of/buying if from ScanQuix 5 at Vesalia who used to sell it don't seem to have it listed in their product list anymore, though that seems to be a 'holding page' for it.

    FxScan v4 - IOSpirit - no longer available, but weblink info to read was also a possibility, but then again IOSpirit (Felix Schwarz) left the Amiga scene some time ago (2007). If you can get hold of FxPaint CD then I believe there was a free trial version of FxScan on there, though I think it needs a Serial Number to use it, but I'm sure this can be acquired if need be. You can probably get the files for all of these programs from some of the Amiga based websites that hold application software on them.

    [ Edited by NewSense 08.05.2020 - 08:01 ]
    MacMini 1.5GHz,10,2,64MB VRAM,1GB,Airport, Bluetooth,A1016 Keyboard,T-RB22 Mouse,DVD-RW-DL+CD-RW,Iomega MiniMax,Belkin 6 port 3 x Firewire/3 x, USB2, MorphOS 3.12, Mac OSX 10.4/10.5, A1138+A1139 PwrBk MOS v3.12,Model 5,8/5,9, & PowerMac G5 2.3GHz(DP)
  • »08.05.20 - 06:58
    Profile
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Amigaharry2
    Posts: 790 from 2010/1/6
    From: EU-Austria (Wien)
    Scanquix (3.8) is working well on my other G5 with an older Artec 6000C Viewstation-Scanner (SCSI). SCSI-Card: PCI with Symbios-Logic SCSI-Chip (see supported hardware: https://www.morphos-team.net/hardware )

    Till USB-problems with Scandal are fixed on Mac-systems, I connected the Epson to my EFIKA, where he does perfect.
    Peg2, 3xPowerMac G5, 2xPowerbookG4, 2x MacMiniG4, Efika (again), A3000T and life is never boring.....
  • »08.05.20 - 07:45
    Profile
  • MorphOS Developer
    zukow
    Posts: 582 from 2005/2/9
    From: Poland
    Hi all, so ...

    1) Scandal and its drivers are based on Betascan by Svend Daugaard Pedersen, which based his drivers on SANE linux package. 68k version is still available on Aminet with some of the scanners.
    2) FXScan was commercial version of Betascan made by Iospiryt (there was FXScan lite in Genesi bundle for MorphOS). FxScan used the same drivers as Betascan, just has extended gui, ocr abilities etc.
    3) SCANdal, made as simple freeware frontend for Betascan drivers for all who didn't want 29euro for FxScan, uses the same Betascan drivers
    4) Scanquix uses different set of drivers, not compatible with betascan.
    5) There is only one really working USB driver for 68k. It's epsonusb.device, included in FXScan but also in Thylacine package. EpsonUSB driver makes use of usbraw.device, for bulk transfers.
    6) Most of USB Sane drivers does't use bulk transfer so i made nearly correct implenention of USB part of SANE for Poseidon, although disconnection doesn't work properly. Need to be fixed, yes.
    7) Gt68xx scanners are pure shit, they have worst quality.
    8) My list of best scanners are: Epson1640SU, CanonLide 210 and Mustek ScanExpress 600.
    9) I know about usb issues, although i don't have time to check it in this month, if somebody has time, please check if drivers/scandal from any morphos release works with 3.13. It may be a problem with Poseidon itself. My 1640Su also recently refuses to work some time.It's really strange as it has worked for the last 10 years.
  • »10.05.20 - 10:03
    Profile Visit Website
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Amigaharry2
    Posts: 790 from 2010/1/6
    From: EU-Austria (Wien)
    Tried MorphOS 3.11 with SCANDAL V1.6 (from MorphoS 3.7): works!
    Tried ist with Scandal V1.9: Doesn't work! - "unknown Error" when start scanning.

    Tried it with MorphOS 3.12/13 (any version of Scandal): Connects to scanner but doesn't start scanning (gives "Unknown Error")

    System: PowerMac G5/2.3 GHz

    Hope, this will help a bit....
    Peg2, 3xPowerMac G5, 2xPowerbookG4, 2x MacMiniG4, Efika (again), A3000T and life is never boring.....
  • »11.05.20 - 10:18
    Profile
  • MorphOS Developer
    zukow
    Posts: 582 from 2005/2/9
    From: Poland
    One question, have you used paired Scandal + driver from one MorphOS release (so MorphOS 3.11 and Scandal 1.6 and scanner driver from MorphOS 3.7)?
  • »11.05.20 - 10:52
    Profile Visit Website
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Amigaharry2
    Posts: 790 from 2010/1/6
    From: EU-Austria (Wien)
    Used epson2.device V2.36 from MOS 3.11 an Scandal V1.6 from MOS 3.7.

    I booted with MOS3.11 (have a seperate installation on a CF-Card) and started Scandal directly from MOS3.7-iso. Then choose epson2.device from CF-Card and thats it..........
    Peg2, 3xPowerMac G5, 2xPowerbookG4, 2x MacMiniG4, Efika (again), A3000T and life is never boring.....
  • »11.05.20 - 14:56
    Profile
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    NewSense
    Posts: 1012 from 2012/11/10
    From: Manchester, UK/GB
    I haven't tried that method to initiate SCANdal, but that is almost a totally preposterous way to have to get SCANdal to work on a day-to-day basis, and we've genuinely been waiting longer than I ever expected for a fix to get it working as it used to do under the earlier releases of MorphOS, as it did work when I first bought my licence back in 2013 (18.5.2013) when MorphOS 3.2 was the current release, I believe it was.

    Currently, under v3.14, I can get SCANdal to find the Epson2.device and find the scanner to load it as the current device to use for scanning, but when I click on scan it just offers a busy pointer before outputting an error requester stating "Communication error", so please zukow try to get this application fixed as soon as possible as it's gnawing at my usual enjoyment of using MorphOS.

    Of course I am using my MacMini on this application (SCANdal) as all my MorphOS hardware is ex-Apple hardware, so if it is confined to Apple hardware, which probably the majority of MorphOS systems are that happen to be used, then it needs a fix ASAP.

    [UPDATE] - I have since tried the MorphOSBootCD - v3.2 and booting from that CD, suggested by ƒAmigaharry2, and that method does allow me to use SCANdal, so from somewhere between that release, and probably v3.7 that has SCANdal v1.6 (same release on MorphOSBootCD v3.2) then something has been done to affect the useability of SCANdal.that needs fixing ASAP, as we have all waited far too long already for it to be fixed, that's along with the additional problem of detaching/disconnecting of the scanner which then freezes the while USB system from having any additional hardware connected, and SCANdal is the only piece of software that this seems to affect in the USB system in this way, well at least it's the only one I've come across in 7+years, so zukiw, please get it fixed as soon as you can. 8-D.

    While I'm on the topic of software that zukow generally is associated with I also noticed that the saving of PDFs as bitmaps, in particular the graphic format JPEG/JPG goes through the motion of showing it is saving the files, but in fact fails to do so on my MacMini system, so that too needs looking at. I don't know if this has been forwarded as a "bug report" but if it has not than I will do so, I just don't like sending duplicate "bug reports" in for matters that have already been noticed, and are being looked into being fixed.
    MacMini 1.5GHz,10,2,64MB VRAM,1GB,Airport, Bluetooth,A1016 Keyboard,T-RB22 Mouse,DVD-RW-DL+CD-RW,Iomega MiniMax,Belkin 6 port 3 x Firewire/3 x, USB2, MorphOS 3.12, Mac OSX 10.4/10.5, A1138+A1139 PwrBk MOS v3.12,Model 5,8/5,9, & PowerMac G5 2.3GHz(DP)
  • »26.12.20 - 03:37
    Profile
  • MorphOS Developer
    cyfm
    Posts: 422 from 2003/4/11
    From: Germany
    Quote:

    NewSense schrieb:

    While I'm on the topic of software that zukow generally is associated with I also noticed that the saving of PDFs as bitmaps, in particular the graphic format JPEG/JPG goes through the motion of showing it is saving the files, but in fact fails to do so on my MacMini system, so that too needs looking at. I don't know if this has been forwarded as a "bug report" but if it has not than I will do so, I just don't like sending duplicate "bug reports" in for matters that have already been noticed, and are being looked into being fixed.


    If this is unrelated to Scandal, please file a separate bug report. While I don't really understand what you are referring to as I'm not familiar with SCANdal's saving of data, this sounds like a problem that is related to VPdf and not SCANdal, correct me if I'm wrong.
    Also keep in mind that bug reports in a way like this get easily lost if they are hidden in a MorphZone thread.

    Back to the topic of SCANdal, I don't think that this problem can be addressed in the upcoming "bugfix" release but requires some more investigation into the whole topic.
    This definitely should be fixed with the next major release, though. It is a pity that it is already apparent for this long but this won't make it easier to fix, either, especially if additional hardware is involved.
  • »26.12.20 - 14:14
    Profile Visit Website
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    NewSense
    Posts: 1012 from 2012/11/10
    From: Manchester, UK/GB
    Hi Frank, and thanks for the quick reply on this thread, and I wish you and your family (MorphOS Dev. Team - haha) a very Happy Christmas to you all. 8-)

    I'll send in a bug report on the jpeg/jpg issue, as it seems it is also affecting Sketch as well, which when you request it to save as a jpeg/jpg it fails to deliver. Ask it to save as a PNG and you get a png file, the same issue with VPDF. Bug-Report to follow soon.

    [UPDATE] - the JPEG/JPG issue seems to have been resolved with the release/installation of v3.15 of MorphOS

    The issue with SCANdal seems to be part of the MorphOS/SCANdal software infrastructure itself, as Amigaharry2 and I have both been able to get it to function on our Apple hardware - but only with older MorphOS releases, when v1.6 of SCANdal was available.

    Both the later versions of SCANdal and the earlier ones use the same Epson2.device in my case, so it's not the driver it seems, but somewhere in the code that references the USB, as I get a communication error message. The Epson 1640SU scanner device, connected via USB2 is acknowledged by MorphOS when I plug in/switch on, and it connects to the program as it should. It is just that it fails to communicate for whatever reason, probably something that's been "tweaked" since v3.7 was released, though I can try some of the later versions to see where I get to with the MorphOSBoot CDs revisions as to where the program stops working from the Boot CDs - if that would be of any use?

    The instance of the USB2 system being blocked by switching off/disconnecting the scanner is also a matter of some disquiet, and has been a problem since I first used SCANdal, and seems has never been addressed, which is not what I would have hoped to be able to report back was the case. It needs fixing ASAP. It may also be part of the problem as to why SCANdal is not working any more with Apple hardware, so please get this situation fixed, I really would appreciate it, after such a long wait for the right kind of progress to be achieved. 8-D
    MacMini 1.5GHz,10,2,64MB VRAM,1GB,Airport, Bluetooth,A1016 Keyboard,T-RB22 Mouse,DVD-RW-DL+CD-RW,Iomega MiniMax,Belkin 6 port 3 x Firewire/3 x, USB2, MorphOS 3.12, Mac OSX 10.4/10.5, A1138+A1139 PwrBk MOS v3.12,Model 5,8/5,9, & PowerMac G5 2.3GHz(DP)
  • »26.12.20 - 15:14
    Profile
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    NewSense
    Posts: 1012 from 2012/11/10
    From: Manchester, UK/GB
    Now that MorphOS v3.15 has been released I was hoping that at least one of the issues I mentioned with SCANdal (now at v1.10) would have been fixed, but neither of the ones I mentioned quite recently have been fixed.

    So, the Epson 1640SU scanner is initially recognised on the USB bus, when it is connected to the SCANdal interface it is recognised as being available, but when you try to use SCANdal v1.10 from the v3.15 MorphOSBoot CD, or after installation, it does exactly what it did before, on earlier MorphOS releases, that means ones released after v3.11 - and generates an error requester "Communication error" so you cannot scan with it from the installed system. The only way to use the scanner is to boot from the earlier MorphOSBoot CD (<= v3.11) that recognises and load and communicates correctly, without errors, with the scanner, so that's the versions before and including v3.11, as version 3.12 and later are non-functional in this regard AFAIK.

    Additionally, there is still the situation of the USB2 system being blocked by switching off/disconnecting the scanner, and is still a matter that needs to be fixed, sometimes it doesn't just block, it actually "locks/freezes" the USB prefs control panel after switching off or disconnecting the scanner from the USB system/hub, and then you need to do a warm reboot as you cannot add any other USB device to the system as it won't get recognised.

    So, the scanner issues still need to be addressed:

    1. so it releases its "lock" on the USB system when it is switched off or on/off/on, etc. or detached from the USB system. This is still an annoying issue, and has been with MorphOS since I started using it about 7 years ago.
    2. The "Connection error" needs to be fixed, as there is no subsequent useability of SCANdal once you've installed it, later than version 3.11, or boot from any MorphOSBoot CD, including, and since, the release of v3.12, which I believe was released on 1st October 2019. :-(
    MacMini 1.5GHz,10,2,64MB VRAM,1GB,Airport, Bluetooth,A1016 Keyboard,T-RB22 Mouse,DVD-RW-DL+CD-RW,Iomega MiniMax,Belkin 6 port 3 x Firewire/3 x, USB2, MorphOS 3.12, Mac OSX 10.4/10.5, A1138+A1139 PwrBk MOS v3.12,Model 5,8/5,9, & PowerMac G5 2.3GHz(DP)
  • »01.01.21 - 06:37
    Profile
  • MorphOS Developer
    zukow
    Posts: 582 from 2005/2/9
    From: Poland
    Hi,

    All work on Scandal relies on the amount of my free time which i literally don't have as my daughter (2yo) and son (4yo) take all time i have :). Only big project i did last year was dosbox jit and some work for my printing system. I don't know if will be better in 2021. Regarding locking, ok, i'll try to fix it for 3.16. Regarding "Connection error" issue, i know that it is critical bug, probably inside MorphOS kernel/Poseidon. Maybe i need to ask our betatesters to download some old beta isos and check again after what change it stopped working. The bad thing is that it sometimes works here without problems.

    [ Edited by zukow 01.01.2021 - 18:29 ]
  • »01.01.21 - 17:23
    Profile Visit Website
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    NewSense
    Posts: 1012 from 2012/11/10
    From: Manchester, UK/GB
    I use an Apple MacMini 1.5GHz (Silent Upgrade) most of the time/predominantly, and using the Boot CD can bypass that failure with later versions of SCANdal, and later installations >= v3.12, but it really is a process I don't like to have to use.

    Fortunately, thanks to Guido Mersmann, I have the CD "injected" with my registered licence key, so it doesn't time out after 30 minutes, but I'd really appreciate you finding the time to fix this issue, along with other betatesters, as it has been a factor for far too long now.

    The USB lock-up of the underlying Poseidon system makes it potentially a real nightmare, fortunately I know it's going to cause a problem if I do switch it off or disconnect it, but why is it the only removal of any USB hardware, AFAIK, that causes this major USB software failure with MorphOS?
    MacMini 1.5GHz,10,2,64MB VRAM,1GB,Airport, Bluetooth,A1016 Keyboard,T-RB22 Mouse,DVD-RW-DL+CD-RW,Iomega MiniMax,Belkin 6 port 3 x Firewire/3 x, USB2, MorphOS 3.12, Mac OSX 10.4/10.5, A1138+A1139 PwrBk MOS v3.12,Model 5,8/5,9, & PowerMac G5 2.3GHz(DP)
  • »02.01.21 - 08:46
    Profile
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Amigaharry2
    Posts: 790 from 2010/1/6
    From: EU-Austria (Wien)
    @zukow:
    It's totaly understandable that your family needs your time more then anyone else!
    For the moment we have a workaround" by useing older 3.11-installation or (in my case) useing an EFIKA or PEG2 (as I wrote above, only Apple-machines are affected).

    But if you or MOS-Team does anything in that case, please check whole poseidon-stack! There are very old issues (since MOS2.0?) which causes serious problems when copying a lot of files to a USB-device (crashes filesystem, locks Stick, aso.). Sometimes FAT-formated sticks has to be repaired in a PC to use them further on MOS. Try to copy a whole system-partition in one run to a Stick and you will see what I mean - and this affects all machines (Apple, BPlan and afaik AON) and all sticks, CF/SD-cards and some USB-HDs i've tested - and I've done a lot.......
    Peg2, 3xPowerMac G5, 2xPowerbookG4, 2x MacMiniG4, Efika (again), A3000T and life is never boring.....
  • »02.01.21 - 10:54
    Profile
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    NewSense
    Posts: 1012 from 2012/11/10
    From: Manchester, UK/GB
    It seems that zukow, possibly together with other betatesters/Development Team members, have isolated issue(s) that are causing the issue(s) with SCANdal to fail to communicate or interrupt/stall the USB process with Poseidon. I am not sure which one or both of these issues will be addressed, but in MorphOS: Public Release of MorphOS 3.15 .... at 0921hrs 3-Jan-2021 in that thread zukow states the workaround will be provided in 2 weeks.
    MacMini 1.5GHz,10,2,64MB VRAM,1GB,Airport, Bluetooth,A1016 Keyboard,T-RB22 Mouse,DVD-RW-DL+CD-RW,Iomega MiniMax,Belkin 6 port 3 x Firewire/3 x, USB2, MorphOS 3.12, Mac OSX 10.4/10.5, A1138+A1139 PwrBk MOS v3.12,Model 5,8/5,9, & PowerMac G5 2.3GHz(DP)
  • »04.01.21 - 00:10
    Profile
  • jPV
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    jPV
    Posts: 1719 from 2003/2/24
    From: po-RNO
    Quote:

    Amigaharry2 wrote:
    But if you or MOS-Team does anything in that case, please check whole poseidon-stack! There are very old issues (since MOS2.0?) which causes serious problems when copying a lot of files to a USB-device (crashes filesystem, locks Stick, aso.). Sometimes FAT-formated sticks has to be repaired in a PC to use them further on MOS. Try to copy a whole system-partition in one run to a Stick and you will see what I mean - and this affects all machines (Apple, BPlan and afaik AON) and all sticks, CF/SD-cards and some USB-HDs i've tested - and I've done a lot.......

    But would the bug be in Poseidon or in the FAT filesystem? I've used SFS formatted USB sticks and HDs for MorphOS backups and those medias have never failed here. But I have got few broken USB sticks that have been in the FAT format... so.. what to blame? From my point of view it could be the filesystem instead of the USB stack... although FAT formatted real HDs (with external psu) have never failed here either...
  • »04.01.21 - 18:01
    Profile Visit Website
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Amigaharry2
    Posts: 790 from 2010/1/6
    From: EU-Austria (Wien)
    Crashed also under SFS - and it's not depending on Hardware (Mac, Peg, Efika, NEC or VIA-Chip). Some Sticks/CF/SD crash earlier, others later - it is repeatable......
    It does not depend to self powered devices or powered by USB-port (only Sticks/SD/CF-devices - not HD -> see below)
    I've also tested a lot of different branded sticks/CF/SD. I cannot believe that they all are faulty.

    Indeed, there are sometimes strange errors useing FAT: During copying some files (e.g. about 3GB) to a 8GB-stick, suddenly "Cannot copy xxxxx because xxxx not found" occurs. But xxxxx is there and OK (can be copied to other destinations). From this point on, no other file can be copied to this stick - it's like locked and needs a repair-session in a Windows-PC. After that you can go on under MOS and copy this file and the rest without any problems.

    Under SFS a "filesytem error" occurs sometimes after a big bunch of copied files (up to 50000). In that case only new format helps......

    Very, very rarely I had such crashes also on USB-HDs - I think in that cases it depends more on a weak powersource, because it doesn't occur on selfpowered devices (till yet)



    [ Editiert durch Amigaharry2 04.01.2021 - 22:14 ]
    Peg2, 3xPowerMac G5, 2xPowerbookG4, 2x MacMiniG4, Efika (again), A3000T and life is never boring.....
  • »04.01.21 - 21:10
    Profile
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    NewSense
    Posts: 1012 from 2012/11/10
    From: Manchester, UK/GB
    Quote:

    Amigaharry2 wrote: [...I've also tested a lot of different branded sticks/CF/SD. I cannot believe that they all are faulty.

    I'd generally agree that some USB sticks that are FAT formatted (default format when supplied new) get to a point, even when they are new, and sometimes after only a few MB or sometimes even less, end up stalling/failing to complete a data transfer.

    I usually use mains powered USB hubs as they are more reliable, due the extra "grunt"/power supplied to the device to get the best chance of it completing a data transfer, but often even with a powered USB hub they fail.

    It is rarer for that to occur on a ex-FAT (Long filename formatted HDD) formatted HDD, but even then I get instances when they stall, and the HDD dismounts from the USB/Poseidon system, but once it's been unplugged/reconnected/recognised by Poseidon correctly it will continue afterwards and eventually complete the data transfer.

    So, FAT formatted flash/pen drive/USB sticks (whatever you want to call them) are more unreliable with MorphOS, and rarely encounter such issues on Windows systems, but are prone to this problem, as Amigaharry2 has correctly identified, that seems to point to Poseidon/USB infrastructure of MorphOS, due to it being so uncommon when using a Windows based system. I don't like saying this but it seems to be more inherent in MorphOS than Windows.
    Quote:

    Amigaharry2 wrote: Indeed, there are sometimes strange errors useing FAT: During copying some files (e.g. about 3GB) to a 8GB-stick, suddenly "Cannot copy xxxxx because xxxx not found" occurs. But xxxxx is there and OK (can be copied to other destinations). From this point on, no other file can be copied to this stick - it's like locked and needs a repair-session in a Windows-PC. After that you can go on under MOS and copy this file and the rest without any problems.

    I have had the occasional instance of this happeneing, and you begin to think, did I do something to the stick, to make it do this, but I cannot think of anything that I did externally to the stick/pen-drive/flash drive that would have caused this anomaly to occur, so there seems to be credence in what Amigaharry2 has said on this topic, from my experience.
    Quote:

    Amigaharry2 wrote: Under SFS a "filesytem error" occurs sometimes after a big bunch of copied files (up to 50000). In that case only new format helps......

    I can't say I have ever formatted on a permanent basis a USB stick/flash/pen- drive as SFS, they remain FAT formatted as they are more useful for transfer of data to other systems - if they work consistently! ;-)
    MacMini 1.5GHz,10,2,64MB VRAM,1GB,Airport, Bluetooth,A1016 Keyboard,T-RB22 Mouse,DVD-RW-DL+CD-RW,Iomega MiniMax,Belkin 6 port 3 x Firewire/3 x, USB2, MorphOS 3.12, Mac OSX 10.4/10.5, A1138+A1139 PwrBk MOS v3.12,Model 5,8/5,9, & PowerMac G5 2.3GHz(DP)
  • »04.01.21 - 23:53
    Profile
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Amigaharry2
    Posts: 790 from 2010/1/6
    From: EU-Austria (Wien)
    In my case SFS-Sticks (and HFS) are used as bootable MorphOS emergency-installation for my Powerbooks and Minis. On G5 I have a CF-Card on 2nd.ide.device (IDE2CF converter) with a plain MOS-installation for testing or in case of troubles with main-installation.

    I have also tried ICEFS on sticks - and against expectation it works well - but there I copied only a few big files (>4GB).
    Peg2, 3xPowerMac G5, 2xPowerbookG4, 2x MacMiniG4, Efika (again), A3000T and life is never boring.....
  • »05.01.21 - 07:40
    Profile