MorphOS license price (for G4)
  • Caterpillar
    Caterpillar
    Posts: 22 from 2019/11/25
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    >>> Mac struggles (in comparison to old times) to charge large prices for OS licenses.

    >> While macOS updates have been free for some years, how do you know which
    >> amount of the complete price Apple charges for the OS if you buy a new Mac?

    > I don't but mac

    I wasn't referring to you personally but to "you" as in the indefinite personal pronoun.

    > I think they are just selling overpriced hardware.

    Maybe they are also selling an overpriced OS with it?


    I agree. In any case, mac was not the main point, it was just an example.
  • »25.11.19 - 19:21
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    amigadave
    Posts: 2654 from 2006/3/21
    From: Lake Arrowhead...
    Quote:

    supremo wrote:
    Quote:

    ernsteiswuerfel wrote:
    @supremo:

    BTW, the licence price has already been reduced a few times (klick). So you could just sit back, relax and wait until the price meets your expectations.

    Or you could do it the old Amiga way - If you like it, but don't want to pay for it just crack it. And if you do so, I guess you will swap it free of charge as the coding is already done? ;-)


    I am totally relaxed. I am just proposing an idea that I think will benefit all (and nobody showed me any strong argument why not, except perhaps a small short-term cash flow for the company).

    My idea is not based on stealing, is based on free market. That's all.


    it's not a company, so all of your arguments appear to be skewed to some business model that does not apply here. Besides that, I don't think your arguments are accurate, and I'm quite sure auctioning licenses would not gain us more users that would value the OS. The demo version is good enough for people to determine if it is of value to them or not. If it is, they buy the license, if it is not, they don't buy a license. Simple as that.
    MorphOS - The best Next Gen Amiga choice.
  • »25.11.19 - 19:33
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  • Caterpillar
    Caterpillar
    Posts: 22 from 2019/11/25
    Quote:

    amigadave wrote:
    Quote:

    supremo wrote:
    Quote:

    ernsteiswuerfel wrote:
    @supremo:

    BTW, the licence price has already been reduced a few times (klick). So you could just sit back, relax and wait until the price meets your expectations.

    Or you could do it the old Amiga way - If you like it, but don't want to pay for it just crack it. And if you do so, I guess you will swap it free of charge as the coding is already done? ;-)


    I am totally relaxed. I am just proposing an idea that I think will benefit all (and nobody showed me any strong argument why not, except perhaps a small short-term cash flow for the company).

    My idea is not based on stealing, is based on free market. That's all.


    it's not a company, so all of your arguments appear to be skewed to some business model that does not apply here. Besides that, I don't think your arguments are accurate, and I'm quite sure auctioning licenses would not gain us more users that would value the OS. The demo version is good enough for people to determine if it is of value to them or not. If it is, they buy the license, if it is not, they don't buy a license. Simple as that.


    They are selling a product or service if you wish. If you don't want to call company, call them business entity. The arguments stay as before.

    The value gain for the users will be the augmented user base. That is beneficial under any circumstances.

    We are not talking about VALUE but PRICE. There is a huge difference. Please pay attention on what I am writing.

    [ Edited by supremo 25.11.2019 - 19:48 ]
  • »25.11.19 - 19:40
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  • Caterpillar
    Caterpillar
    Posts: 22 from 2019/11/25
    All in all, I think I will sell my 2002 G4 on ebay at $1,800 ($1,299 2002 dollars), because that price reflects the amount of developing effort included in it. I don't care that the market consider it an obsolete piece of junk, what it matters for pricing is the original amount of effort, right?

    [ Edited by supremo 25.11.2019 - 20:20 ]
  • »25.11.19 - 20:02
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10681 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > the company

    ...of likeminded individuals, but not a business.
  • »25.11.19 - 20:14
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  • Caterpillar
    Caterpillar
    Posts: 22 from 2019/11/25
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > the company

    ...of likeminded individuals, but not a business.


    Please do not derive the thread into irrelevant technicalities. My message is clear.
  • »25.11.19 - 20:21
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10681 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    >>> the company

    >> ...of likeminded individuals, but not a business.

    > Please do not derive the thread into irrelevant technicalities. My message is clear.

    As soon as you understand that the MorphOS price is not the result of economical consideration as would (have to) be with a business but simply what the developers believe is the worth of using their OS, you'll also understand that the difference between a company of individuals and a commercial business is not an irrelevant technicality, and that your message is clear but irrelevant.
    The MorphOS developers are surely aware that lowering the price significantly would convince a few more people to pay for the license, but they don't seem to care as it's kind of a symbolic price for them, not a market-driven one. Economically, the MorphOS team would have to ask for thousands of euros/dollars for a license, and nobody would buy. MorphOS, in its current form, is a product of love and dedication, not a viable product in terms of business, and lowering the price wouldn't make it one.
    Maybe the reason they do not give MorphOS away for free is that they are ignorant elitists who simply do not want more users ;-)
  • »25.11.19 - 20:42
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  • Caterpillar
    Caterpillar
    Posts: 22 from 2019/11/25
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    >>> the company

    >> ...of likeminded individuals, but not a business.

    > Please do not derive the thread into irrelevant technicalities. My message is clear.

    As soon as you understand that the MorphOS price is not the result of economical consideration as would (have to) be with a business but simply what the developers believe is the worth of using their OS, you'll also understand that the difference between a company of individuals and a commercial business is not an irrelevant technicality, and that your message is clear but irrelevant.
    The MorphOS developers are surely aware that lowering the price significantly would convince a few more people to pay for the license, but they don't seem to care as it's kind of a symbolic price for them, not a market-driven one. Economically, the MorphOS team would have to ask for thousands of euros/dollars for a license, and nobody would buy. MorphOS, in its current form, is a product of love and dedication, not a viable product in terms of business, and lowering the price wouldn't make it one.


    Just suppositions, because as far as I can see, you are not them. This phrase " they don't seem to care as it's kind of a symbolic price for them" makes of little sense to me.

    Linux is also (and more than) a product of love and dedication, and it's free. I don't see your point as messenger for the MorphOS dev team (ok, I will not say company nor business).

    They are not married with the OS, if a crazy rich man pays them 20 millon for all the rights of the OS they will sell it regardless what the rich man decides to do with the OS. Let's get real.


    [ Edited by supremo 25.11.2019 - 21:04 ]
  • »25.11.19 - 20:58
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10681 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Just suppositions, because as far as I can see, you are not them.

    True on both accounts. My deliberate choice of words made this very clear.

    > This phrase " they don't seem to care as it's kind of a symbolic price for them"
    > makes of little sense to me.

    You are about to get it. Point is it does not have to make sense to you, to me or anybody (except the MorphOS team members). And they do not owe you or me or anybody an explanation as to how they have arrived at their pricing model and why they won't change it for now.

    > I don't see your point as messenger for the MorphOS dev team

    You may be mistaking me for the MorphOS team member who already answered you in this thread. He gave the (semi-)official answer to your suggestion, I guess. (Contrary to him, I don't deem you a troll, though.)
  • »25.11.19 - 21:10
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  • Caterpillar
    Caterpillar
    Posts: 22 from 2019/11/25
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    (Contrary to him, I don't deem you a troll, though.)


    That speaks more of himself and probably the dev team than of me. That's why he erased all his posts, and probably at the end my thread. That is what usually happens in toxic forums. What mods don't like is considered trolling and thread erased and user banned.

    [ Edited by supremo 25.11.2019 - 21:30 ]
  • »25.11.19 - 21:21
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10681 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > I think I will sell my 2002 G4 on ebay at $1,800

    If there are no better offers for this specific model so someone who really wants it for whatever reason is actually ready to pay the price you are asking, then more power to both of you. Btw, nobody is offering cheaper MorphOS licenses than the MorphOS team does, except sometimes when already registered machines are sold used you can get hardware plus OS for cheaper than a new license alone.
  • »25.11.19 - 21:34
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  • Caterpillar
    Caterpillar
    Posts: 22 from 2019/11/25
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > I think I will sell my 2002 G4 on ebay at $1,800

    If there are no better offers for this specific model so someone who really wants it for whatever reason is actually ready to pay the price you are asking, then more power to both of you. Btw, nobody is offering cheaper MorphOS licenses than the MorphOS team does, except sometimes when already registered machines are sold used you can get hardware plus OS for cheaper than a new license alone.


    Whereas I do believe in market fair price, I don't think is right to assume that the fair price of something is the price that someone in particular (rich and crazy enough) is willing to pay for something for whatever reason at some point in time.

    It seems you are forcing your reasoning line to rationalize someone else whimsical business model.

    [ Edited by supremo 25.11.2019 - 22:53 ]
  • »25.11.19 - 22:52
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  • jPV
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    jPV
    Posts: 1593 from 2003/2/24
    From: po-RNO
    Quote:

    supremo wrote:
    Linux is also (and more than) a product of love and dedication, and it's free. I don't see your point as messenger for the MorphOS dev team (ok, I will not say company nor business).


    There are big companies funding the development (for example, by letting their employees to develop on working time) of Linux in all areas. The OS may be free, but much of the development hasn't been free (only little over 10% of the kernel development was done for free, IIRC).

    Nobody is paying for MorphOS development, so I think it's reasonable to get some income to cover at least some expenses by licenses. The development team is also very small and there's lots of work per developer, we don't have such a massive group of potential developers around as Linux or other mainstream systems have. We should be really grateful for those remaining developers who are spending their free time for us who love to use this kind of OS. It's a small price for what they are doing.
  • »26.11.19 - 06:13
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  • ASiegel
    Posts: 1179 from 2003/2/15
    From: Central Europe
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    (Contrary to him, I don't deem you a troll, though.)

    Suggesting someone is primarily posting to evoke an emotional response is surely one of the more benevolent explanations for statements such as these...

    Quote:

    the dev team is greedy

    Quote:

    I've almost been banned

    Quote:

    Another central europe misconception. You don't need to work to get money. Again, do your research. The answer might surprise you.
  • »26.11.19 - 07:03
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10681 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > I don't think is right to assume that the fair price of something is the price that
    > someone in particular (rich and crazy enough) is willing to pay for something
    > for whatever reason at some point in time.

    Who determines objectively what's a fair price for an OS that's not subject to business considerations, especially when Linux-based OS and BSDs are free to use? For my current license the "rich and crazy" person that I am effectively paid less than 10 EUR per OS update, and it gets even less with every further free update to come. This I consider extremely fair. Your mileage may vary, of course. A fair price is in the eye of the beholder and I think virtually everybody here can accept your stance that you deem the current pricing unfair. And I hope you can accept that others do not find it unfair.

    > It seems you are forcing your reasoning line to rationalize someone else
    > whimsical business model.

    As I thought I made clear, in my opinion, it is not a business model and there is nothing to rationalize about the price. It is what it is, rational or irrational, fair or unfair, and you either take the plunge or leave it.
  • »26.11.19 - 07:39
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10681 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    >> Contrary to him, I don't deem you a troll, though.

    > Suggesting someone is primarily posting to evoke an
    > emotional response is surely one of the more benevolent
    > explanations for statements such as these...

    I just happen to go by a very strict and pristine definition of the term, which would include as a necessary condition that what he wrote is not his genuine opinion. I see no indication of this so far, like a self-contradictory line of reasoning would be, for instance. You could ask him what makes him think he almost got banned :-)
    But of course, I can easily accept that you as the MorphZone admin/webmaster/moderator get to decide who's to be considered a troll in terms of MorphZone's rules.
  • »26.11.19 - 08:02
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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Minuous
    Posts: 145 from 2010/2/12
    @supremo:

    If you haven't noticed, there is a double standard on this forum: it is apparently fine to say Hyperion is greedy for charging 30 euros for their OS, but you are not allowed to say MorphOS team is greedy for charging 80 euros for theirs.
  • »26.11.19 - 08:23
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10681 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > you are not allowed to say MorphOS team is greedy
    > for charging 80 euros for theirs.

    How are you not allowed? Have people been banned from MorphZone for saying this?
  • »26.11.19 - 08:36
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  • jPV
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    jPV
    Posts: 1593 from 2003/2/24
    From: po-RNO
    Quote:

    Minuous wrote:
    @supremo:

    If you haven't noticed, there is a double standard on this forum: it is apparently fine to say Hyperion is greedy for charging 30 euros for their OS, but you are not allowed to say MorphOS team is greedy for charging 80 euros for theirs.

    Huh? Can you point any link where someone who accepts MorphOS price would say 30 euros is too much for another OS?

    At most people have criticized the "paid upgrades" scheme on OS4.. you've had to pay for updates and extra for graphics/network drivers etc while MorphOS updates and drivers have always been free. Total price of OS4 exceeds total price of MorphOS several times in the long run after all. Weren't both OS4.0 and 4.1 over 100e each, and only 4.1FE is cheap? Of course if you jump on the wagon right now, the current OS is very cheap (even I bought it because of it), but be prepared to pay more or stick with that version you bought.
  • »26.11.19 - 09:00
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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Minuous
    Posts: 145 from 2010/2/12
    No, among all the other Hyperion-bashing I was not able to find this exact statement after a quick search, so I withdraw it.

    I didn't buy OS4 until OS4.1FE either, mainly due to the high price and lack of emulatability, both of which problems were eventually addressed. OS4.1FEu1 is a free upgrade, only major upgrades have cost anything.
  • »26.11.19 - 09:48
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  • jPV
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    jPV
    Posts: 1593 from 2003/2/24
    From: po-RNO
    And one thing people don't seem to remember with MorphOS is that it's not only the operating system you're buying, but also a big application library for it. MorphOS is bundled with tens of applications, utilities, and other software that are not available separately. MorphOS Team is the biggest application software developer and maintainer for the platform too. All these major applications included in the OS could very well be sold separately or be shareware. Taking all this into consideration, it really isn't that high price for the package.

    For comparison, AmigaOS releases have been traditionally very ascetic and you've just paid for the core OS itself. See the new AmigaOS 3.1.4, for example. It's just a small face-lift/bug fixing release for the existing OS, with no extra applications, and it's sold for 30 euros... MorphOS looks like bargain when comparing what these offer and how much work has put into them.
  • »26.11.19 - 10:52
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Zylesea
    Posts: 1919 from 2003/6/4
    In an ideal world probably MorphOS would be free of charge and the users would willingly give a fair share of their resources to the developers. But that's probaby just dreams...
    The current price of MorphOS is what it is. You can recalculate the ammount to equilvalents of pizza, beer, the cinema or what you give to charity or #?, but eventually it just is what it is.. The team set an ammount, take it or leave it.

    Of course this is a free world (well, parts at least) you can raise your voice and suggest other sales methods or prices - but there is no obligation to follow these suggestions. And indeed for some 79 € is rather peanuts, for others this is quite an ammount, but the MorphOS team just cannot cater all cases, hence a price that is probably okay for most ppl in the countries MorphOS has most of its fans (Europe and US).

    The offer is as it - take it or leave it. Maybe some suggesting or complaing, but - gosh, please - no mimimi!
    --
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  • »26.11.19 - 18:52
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  • Caterpillar
    Caterpillar
    Posts: 22 from 2019/11/25
    Quote:

    ASiegel wrote:
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    (Contrary to him, I don't deem you a troll, though.)

    Suggesting someone is primarily posting to evoke an emotional response is surely one of the more benevolent explanations for statements such as these...

    Quote:

    the dev team is greedy

    Quote:

    I've almost been banned

    Quote:

    Another central europe misconception. You don't need to work to get money. Again, do your research. The answer might surprise you.



    Look who came back. You can now erase your own post as you previously did. Just don't lie this time. Thanks.
  • »01.12.19 - 20:29
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  • Cocoon
    Cocoon
    sailor
    Posts: 44 from 2019/5/9
    Quote:

    supremo wrote:
    Look who came back. You can now erase your own post as you previously did. Just don't lie this time. Thanks.


    interesting, beneficial and intelligent discussion
    Pegasos II 1.33GHz, AmigaOne X1000, Powermac G5 Quad, iMac G5, Powerbook G4 and Z10PE-D16 WS
    MorphOS, AmigaOS, Debian, Ubuntu, OSX, NetBSD, Win7 ;-)
  • »02.12.19 - 11:01
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