How to run MorphOS on unsupported G5 PCIe
  • Just looking around
    Posts: 20 from 2017/8/6
    Mine is the Mac G5 version with 256MB. I get a white screen on boot.
  • »21.11.19 - 19:46
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  • Order of the Butterfly
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    Doffo
    Posts: 441 from 2010/10/14
    From: Nevada
    Quote:

    amifrog wrote:
    Mine is the Mac G5 version with 256MB. I get a white screen on boot.


    Ahhh, gotcha... When you boot from a CD, does it ever get passed that white screen?? I used to have an issue where the CD drive itself would hang the system and stay at the white screen when booting from the CD. I changed the CD drive and it finally got passed it. Though, unsure if that would be the case for the G5. The Mirror Drive G4 that I have did that to me.
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  • »21.11.19 - 20:04
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  • Just looking around
    Posts: 20 from 2017/8/6
    Dunno. The CD reads fine from Mac OSX and it seems it is load files. If i could get it to verbose mode and booting from CD at the same time would be nice.

    Edit
    i tried again, i can definitely hear the files being loaded from CD.

    [ Edited by amifrog 21.11.2019 - 21:57 ]
  • »21.11.19 - 20:19
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  • Order of the Butterfly
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    Doffo
    Posts: 441 from 2010/10/14
    From: Nevada
    Quote:

    amifrog wrote:
    Dunno. The CD reads fine from Mac OSX and it seems it is load files. If i could get it to verbose mode and booting from CD at the same time would be nice.

    Edit
    i tried again, i can definitely hear the files being loaded from CD.


    Crazy. I am about to put in the PC version of the x1900 xt in the Quad 2.5 and see if it will go. I will report later. I don't have an ethernet PCIe card yet, but I can still put some files on a USB stick and copy over to try out a few things.
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  • »21.11.19 - 22:31
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10681 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Mine is the Mac G5 version with 256MB.

    As far as I know, there never was a Mac G5 version of the X1900XT, just of the X1900GT. So what you might have is either an X1900GT or an X1900XT re-flashed with the X1900GT PPC ROM.
  • »21.11.19 - 22:46
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  • Order of the Butterfly
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    Doffo
    Posts: 441 from 2010/10/14
    From: Nevada
    I got the G5 Quad to boot up and it works great with the Sapphire 512 MB x1900 XT.

    I had to temporarily use the Nvidia card on another PCI-E port so that I could hold down ALT and choose the CD rom drive to boot MorphOS, then I turned off the monitor, then carefully removed the DVI cable from the Nvidia to the ATi. Worked great.

    For whatever reason, my G5 tower refused to boot from the CD drive, even when I was holding down the C key at startup...

    Everything came to a halt though. LCS is bad... No visible sign of it gone bad, but I will take out the LCS another day. Temps got too hot and when I went to reboot, the mac itself threw 2 red lights on and fans went on full speed.

    May change it out for some heatsinks from a 2.0 GHz.
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  • »22.11.19 - 01:51
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    Doffo
    Posts: 441 from 2010/10/14
    From: Nevada
    ***Correcting my mistake***

    After comparing the differences on pictures, it might not even be possible to use heatsinks from an older G5 to the newer model G5. Differences and stuff would get in the way and not line up correctly.
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  • »22.11.19 - 06:57
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  • Just looking around
    Posts: 20 from 2017/8/6
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > Mine is the Mac G5 version with 256MB.

    As far as I know, there never was a Mac G5 version of the X1900XT, just of the X1900GT. So what you might have is either an X1900GT or an X1900XT re-flashed with the X1900GT PPC ROM.


    Maybe. At least it is running, to bad, it is not one of the compatibles.
    System Profiler says Radeon X1900 XT (vendor 0x1002, id 0x7240, ROM 113-A52070-109), and the card works with 10.4 and 10.5.

    Vendor database says it's a R580.

    Too bad, if it is not going to run MorphOS. At least it is faster than my Nvidia7800GT.:)

    [ Edited by amifrog 22.11.2019 - 09:47 ]
  • »22.11.19 - 08:47
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10681 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > System Profiler says Radeon X1900 XT (vendor 0x1002, id 0x7240,
    > ROM 113-A52070-109) [...]. Vendor database says it's a R580.

    Yes, both X1900 GT and X1900 XT have the R580 GPU. I still think your card is not a genuine PPC ROM card but a re-flashed one.

    > Too bad, if it is not going to run MorphOS.

    MorphOS might work if you re-flash the original x86 ROM to the card.
  • »22.11.19 - 09:45
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  • Just looking around
    Posts: 20 from 2017/8/6
    Hm, but then i need to put one of the NVidia cards back into the machine to keep OSX working. And i only have one fast slot, obviously.
  • »22.11.19 - 10:58
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10681 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > i only have one fast slot, obviously.

    Does x16 vs. x8 speed make a difference in terms of perceived real-life performance on OSX or MorphOS?
  • »22.11.19 - 11:56
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    ThePlayer
    Posts: 1031 from 2003/3/24
    From: Hamburg/Germany
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf schrieb:
    > i only have one fast slot, obviously.

    Does x16 vs. x8 speed make a difference in terms of perceived real-life performance on OSX or MorphOS?


    Afaik no. I´ve read an article on Computerbase.de some years ago. They tested GFX Card with 16x and 8x PCI Speed and there was a difference of less then 3% in Games. Even today the fastest GFX Card not much worse in 8x compared to 16x.
    https://www.gamersnexus.net/guides/2488-pci-e-3-x8-vs-x16-performance-impact-on-gpus
    https://www.techpowerup.com/review/nvidia-geforce-gtx-1080-pci-express-scaling/24.html
    But for modern GFX Cards PCIE 1 and 2 could be a bottleneck.

    @Doffo So you are using two GFX Cards in your G5? One Nvidia Mac and a Radeon PC?

    Oh and by the way does somebody know what is the latest Radeon supported by OSX 10.5.8 PPC?

    [ Editiert durch ThePlayer 22.11.2019 - 20:09 ]
    PowerBook 17" SuperHD-Display MOD 1920x1200 :)
  • »22.11.19 - 18:55
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    If i find the time i am going to benchmark the cards in both slots to be sure.
  • »22.11.19 - 19:18
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10681 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > So you are using two GFX Cards in your G5? One Nvidia Mac and a Radeon PC?

    He's apparently not the only one who does, see comments #3 and #6 for instance.

    > does somebody know what is the latest Radeon supported by OSX 10.5.8 PPC?

    X1900 GT Mac edition. Other X19x0 cards may be supported when flashed with the PPC ROM from the X1900 GT Mac edition.
  • »22.11.19 - 20:47
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    ThePlayer
    Posts: 1031 from 2003/3/24
    From: Hamburg/Germany
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf schrieb:
    > So you are using two GFX Cards in your G5? One Nvidia Mac and a Radeon PC?

    He's apparently not the only one who does, see comments #3 and #6 for instance.

    > does somebody know what is the latest Radeon supported by OSX 10.5.8 PPC?

    X1900 GT Mac edition. Other X19x0 cards may be supported when flashed with the PPC ROM from the X1900 GT Mac edition.


    That is great, so one can use easily a PC Radeon and don`t care about flashing.
    So no Driver Support on 10.5.8 of 2xxx and 3xxx Radeon?

    Did someone Bench the G5 2,7 AGP against Quad G5 2,5 Ghz in Games and MKV 1080p playback?
    I`ve heard that the Quad should be faster because of the RAM and BUS.
    PowerBook 17" SuperHD-Display MOD 1920x1200 :)
  • »23.11.19 - 11:13
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10681 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > So no Driver Support on 10.5.8 of 2xxx and 3xxx Radeon?

    The issue here is not generally the drivers but specifically the ROM. Contrary to Linux and MorphOS, OSX on PPC relies on the PPC ROM of the graphics card, and the X1900 GT happens to be the last Radeon card that came in a variant with PPC ROM.
  • »23.11.19 - 12:59
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  • Order of the Butterfly
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    Doffo
    Posts: 441 from 2010/10/14
    From: Nevada
    Quote:

    ThePlayer wrote:
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf schrieb:
    > So you are using two GFX Cards in your G5? One Nvidia Mac and a Radeon PC?

    He's apparently not the only one who does, see comments #3 and #6 for instance.

    > does somebody know what is the latest Radeon supported by OSX 10.5.8 PPC?

    X1900 GT Mac edition. Other X19x0 cards may be supported when flashed with the PPC ROM from the X1900 GT Mac edition.


    That is great, so one can use easily a PC Radeon and don`t care about flashing.
    So no Driver Support on 10.5.8 of 2xxx and 3xxx Radeon?

    Did someone Bench the G5 2,7 AGP against Quad G5 2,5 Ghz in Games and MKV 1080p playback?
    I`ve heard that the Quad should be faster because of the RAM and BUS.


    I personally wanted to try different things like this. See how good certain videos played on the PCI-E Mac G5 vs the older G5.

    My Quad 2.5 turned out to be a lemon. The LCS is toast, and "rebuilding it" proved to be wasteful as I had a hard time getting it to properly fill etc.. The Pump itself might be ruined since it was basically empty.

    No worries, gonna source me a single cpu/dual core G5 in time.
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  • »23.11.19 - 22:24
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    amigadave
    Posts: 2654 from 2006/3/21
    From: Lake Arrowhead...
    Quote:

    Doffo wrote:
    Quote:

    ThePlayer wrote:
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf schrieb:
    > So you are using two GFX Cards in your G5? One Nvidia Mac and a Radeon PC?

    He's apparently not the only one who does, see comments #3 and #6 for instance.

    > does somebody know what is the latest Radeon supported by OSX 10.5.8 PPC?

    X1900 GT Mac edition. Other X19x0 cards may be supported when flashed with the PPC ROM from the X1900 GT Mac edition.


    That is great, so one can use easily a PC Radeon and don`t care about flashing.
    So no Driver Support on 10.5.8 of 2xxx and 3xxx Radeon?

    Did someone Bench the G5 2,7 AGP against Quad G5 2,5 Ghz in Games and MKV 1080p playback?
    I`ve heard that the Quad should be faster because of the RAM and BUS.


    I personally wanted to try different things like this. See how good certain videos played on the PCI-E Mac G5 vs the older G5.

    My Quad 2.5 turned out to be a lemon. The LCS is toast, and "rebuilding it" proved to be wasteful as I had a hard time getting it to properly fill etc.. The Pump itself might be ruined since it was basically empty.

    No worries, gonna source me a single cpu/dual core G5 in time.



    If you're just going to recycle, or trash your Quad core G5, let me know. I wouldn't mind trying to fix it for myself, if all I need to do is drive to Nevada from California to get it. I could swap another G5 system with you. I have a spare Dual 2.7GHz G5 PowerMac that has the demo version of MorphOS already installed on it and appears to run great, but I would want to remove the video card I currently have in it, so you would need to provide your own video card. I also have a Dual 2.5GHz G5 system that has damage to the motherboard, which only allows one of the two G5 CPU's to run/show up as running, which does not matter for MorphOS, which only currently uses a single G5 CPU. If either of those system is easier for you to convert to air cooled heat sinks, you are welcome to either of them in exchange for your Quad core G5 PowerMac 11.2 model.
    MorphOS - The best Next Gen Amiga choice.
  • »24.11.19 - 02:54
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  • Order of the Butterfly
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    Doffo
    Posts: 441 from 2010/10/14
    From: Nevada
    Quote:

    amigadave wrote:
    Quote:

    Doffo wrote:
    Quote:

    ThePlayer wrote:
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf schrieb:
    > So you are using two GFX Cards in your G5? One Nvidia Mac and a Radeon PC?

    He's apparently not the only one who does, see comments #3 and #6 for instance.

    > does somebody know what is the latest Radeon supported by OSX 10.5.8 PPC?

    X1900 GT Mac edition. Other X19x0 cards may be supported when flashed with the PPC ROM from the X1900 GT Mac edition.


    That is great, so one can use easily a PC Radeon and don`t care about flashing.
    So no Driver Support on 10.5.8 of 2xxx and 3xxx Radeon?

    Did someone Bench the G5 2,7 AGP against Quad G5 2,5 Ghz in Games and MKV 1080p playback?
    I`ve heard that the Quad should be faster because of the RAM and BUS.


    I personally wanted to try different things like this. See how good certain videos played on the PCI-E Mac G5 vs the older G5.

    My Quad 2.5 turned out to be a lemon. The LCS is toast, and "rebuilding it" proved to be wasteful as I had a hard time getting it to properly fill etc.. The Pump itself might be ruined since it was basically empty.

    No worries, gonna source me a single cpu/dual core G5 in time.



    If you're just going to recycle, or trash your Quad core G5, let me know. I wouldn't mind trying to fix it for myself, if all I need to do is drive to Nevada from California to get it. I could swap another G5 system with you. I have a spare Dual 2.7GHz G5 PowerMac that has the demo version of MorphOS already installed on it and appears to run great, but I would want to remove the video card I currently have in it, so you would need to provide your own video card. I also have a Dual 2.5GHz G5 system that has damage to the motherboard, which only allows one of the two G5 CPU's to run/show up as running, which does not matter for MorphOS, which only currently uses a single G5 CPU. If either of those system is easier for you to convert to air cooled heat sinks, you are welcome to either of them in exchange for your Quad core G5 PowerMac 11.2 model.



    Unfortunately, I moved to Kansas a month and a half ago. Thanks for the offer though. For now, after a Single CPU/Dual Core model that I can swap out a CPU out of into it. The lousy liquid cooling system was hard to even do much with as the actual pump itself may of failed and not strong enough to push the liquid through. All is well. :)
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  • »24.11.19 - 05:51
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    amigadave
    Posts: 2654 from 2006/3/21
    From: Lake Arrowhead...
    Quote:

    Doffo wrote:
    Unfortunately, I moved to Kansas a month and a half ago. Thanks for the offer though. For now, after a Single CPU/Dual Core model that I can swap out a CPU out of into it. The lousy liquid cooling system was hard to even do much with as the actual pump itself may of failed and not strong enough to push the liquid through. All is well. :)



    I would think that it would be better for you to just replace the liquid cooling system from another Quad Core G5 PowerMac 11.2, as they all had the best liquid cooling pumps of all the liquid cooled G5's that Apple made. Unfortunately, most failures in all of the liquid cooled G5's were probably due to a leak in the cooling system, or failed cooling pump, and all of the Quad Core G5's still working, it would not make sense to remove the cooling system from one just to put it into another Quad Core G5.

    Good luck with your plans to get a G5 system that you can run MorphOS3.12 (and beyond) on. I'm betting that you will enjoy it, once you have used it more often.
    MorphOS - The best Next Gen Amiga choice.
  • »24.11.19 - 19:23
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    Flash
    Posts: 5 from 2019/11/1
    The pcie ATI x1900gt is latest card supported by macosx 10.5.8 for powermacs.
    Under morphos 3.12 it can be used in combination with native nvidia 6600 pcie card, using an pcie 8x free slot.

    It can be also flashed with a powermac rom on a pc under msdos and atiflash tool.
    Be careful because there are two version of x1900gt one with extra power connector on the top/left

    radeon-x1900-gt.c173#gallery-1

    and another with power connector on the middle/left

    b7776ccd86677e084c73066d56234a62_XL.jpg

    in my experience only the first can be modded in an original powermac ati x1900gt and so use only one video card instead of two.

    I don't know if you can flash an ATI 1900xt card into a genuine powermac x1900gt, if someone has tested it please let us know.

    About powermacs g5 quad I have to say it's a big beast and LCS issues are a big mistake.
    On my G5 quad I had to rebuild the whole cooling system using special liquid cooled nordbrige heatsink and a special liquid metal thermal compound.
    Now I have the fastest amiga ever seen..
  • »24.11.19 - 21:18
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  • MorphOS Developer
    zukow
    Posts: 520 from 2005/2/9
    From: Poland
    I have X1950XT flashed with Apple Bios, it runs without problem
  • »24.11.19 - 21:25
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    Flash
    Posts: 5 from 2019/11/1
    Quote:

    zukow wrote:
    I have X1950XT flashed with Apple Bios, it runs without problem


    Is it shappire brand? how much memory has on board 256 or 512mb? Do you have used it also un mac osx? Is it the only video card present in your mac? is it suited on pcie 16x slot?

    Anyway thanks for your feedback, i'd like to know if also an x1950gt or x1950pro could be ok.
  • »24.11.19 - 22:10
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    ernsteiswuerfel
    Posts: 313 from 2015/6/18
    From: Funeralopolis
    Quote:

    Flash schrieb:
    [...]
    and another with power connector on the middle/left

    b7776ccd86677e084c73066d56234a62_XL.jpg

    in my experience only the first can be modded in an original powermac ati x1900gt and so use only one video card instead of two.

    I don't know if you can flash an ATI 1900xt card into a genuine powermac x1900gt, if someone has tested it please let us know.

    I got this card cheaply, 256 MiB version. I plan to flash it. Only waiting for my MoBo->PCIe power cable to arrive. ;-) I'll let you know about the results. Don't run MacOS on the G5 but Linux.

    And congrats for your worlds fastest Amiga! :-) This surely was hard work...
    Talos II. [Gentoo Linux] | PMac G5 7,3. PMac G4 3,6. PBook G4 5,8. [MorphOS 3.12; Gentoo/Void/Adelie Linux] | A1200. ACA-1233, Indivision AGA Mk2. [AmigaOS 3.2]
  • »25.11.19 - 18:20
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  • MorphOS Developer
    zukow
    Posts: 520 from 2005/2/9
    From: Poland
    @Flash

    I explained in the first post in this thread and added photos of my cards. Yes, it's sapphire 512MB X1950XT. Works under OF/MorphOS/MacosX 10.5 (under 10.4 i got b-w screen). Doom3 works pretty well under MacosX. Far better when using NVidia.
  • »25.11.19 - 19:43
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