Problems installing 3.11 on a PowerMac G4 MDD (3,6)
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    ernsteiswuerfel
    Posts: 313 from 2015/6/18
    From: Funeralopolis
    Got some strange problems on my G4 MDD (3,6) installing MorphOS 3.11. It has got a SiL 3112 SATA controller (PCI), with a Samsung SSD 840 Pro and a Western Digital WD5000LPLX HDD connected. USB mouse and keyboard are connected via an Aten US 424 USB switch. Booting and using the MorphOS 3.11 .iso works perfectly fine. However:

    1.) As soon I copy files around on the SSD or HDD (during the install or manually), I 'lose' USB devices. Disconnecting them and plugging them back into the switch makes them working again, but they get lost againg during file operations.

    2.) Installing on the SSD with sectorsize 16384 freezes the G4 after installing 5 files (files count during the install process). Using sectorsize 8192 the install process holds on a litte longer copying about 1000 files, but still freezes the machine. Using sectorsize 4096 installing sometimes completes successfully, sometimes not.

    Are these common pitfalls on MorphOS for this system? Under Gentoo Linux (kernel 5.0.21) this system runs without glitches.
    Talos II. [Gentoo Linux] | PMac G5 7,3. PMac G4 3,6. PBook G4 5,8. [MorphOS 3.12; Gentoo/Void/Adelie Linux] | A1200. ACA-1233, Indivision AGA Mk2. [AmigaOS 3.2]
  • »10.06.19 - 09:44
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    ernsteiswuerfel
    Posts: 313 from 2015/6/18
    From: Funeralopolis
    Same with MorphOS 3.12 on this machine. :-(

    I swapped the Samsung SSD 840 Pro with a SanDisk SSD Plus 'cause former had problems on Linux too. But that's the only change I made.

    I don't think this is a hardware issue as installing 3 different Linux distros from DVD worked. Also the G4 3,6 runs Linux without problems (doing loads of building stuff).
    Talos II. [Gentoo Linux] | PMac G5 7,3. PMac G4 3,6. PBook G4 5,8. [MorphOS 3.12; Gentoo/Void/Adelie Linux] | A1200. ACA-1233, Indivision AGA Mk2. [AmigaOS 3.2]
  • »06.10.19 - 23:04
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    ernsteiswuerfel
    Posts: 313 from 2015/6/18
    From: Funeralopolis
    To sort out DVD problems I booted the G4 via USB stick which worked fine.

    Installing MorphOS on this machine still does not work. Like described above the G4 freezes somewhere during copying the files. Additionally I get a "DEAD USB DEVICE" error requester for the USB stick.

    Already filed a bug to morphos@ml.morphos-team.net about it.
    Talos II. [Gentoo Linux] | PMac G5 7,3. PMac G4 3,6. PBook G4 5,8. [MorphOS 3.12; Gentoo/Void/Adelie Linux] | A1200. ACA-1233, Indivision AGA Mk2. [AmigaOS 3.2]
  • »13.10.19 - 13:51
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    ernsteiswuerfel
    Posts: 313 from 2015/6/18
    From: Funeralopolis
    Mkay...

    Finally 'solved' the issue: The problem is the Aten US 424 USB switch.

    I needed to disconnect it completely from my PowerMac G4 DP, even if there are no devices connected to the switch! If it is connected it interferes with the MorphOS installation in strange way (it seems), always leading to this freezing issues during install sooner or later. Actually does not matter if I install on the SSD or the HDD hanging on the SiL 3112 SATA controller or to a HDD connected to internal IDE - I was not able to finish installation.

    As soon as the Aten US 424 is not connected from the beginning, all these problems disappeared. Installation on the SSD works a-ok, running the installed MorphOS works a-ok. That's the good part. :-)

    The bad part is I really miss using the Aten US 424. :-( It's so convenient to switch between different machines. Also the switch works fine with my other machines and also on Gentoo/Adelie/Void-Linux on this very PowerMac.

    Is there a chance this situation improves with future MorphOS versions? Are there any 'known good' USB switches cooperating well with MorphOS?
    Talos II. [Gentoo Linux] | PMac G5 7,3. PMac G4 3,6. PBook G4 5,8. [MorphOS 3.12; Gentoo/Void/Adelie Linux] | A1200. ACA-1233, Indivision AGA Mk2. [AmigaOS 3.2]
  • »22.10.19 - 22:05
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  • MorphOS Developer
    jacadcaps
    Posts: 1884 from 2003/3/5
    From: Poland
    Would be hard to do anything about this without having an actual device.
  • »23.10.19 - 07:54
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  • ASiegel
    Posts: 1179 from 2003/2/15
    From: Central Europe
    Quote:

    ernsteiswuerfel wrote:
    Is there a chance this situation improves with future MorphOS versions? Are there any 'known good' USB switches cooperating well with MorphOS?


    I'm using a UGREEN model that appears to work flawlessly and can be found on Ebay or Amazon.
  • »23.10.19 - 08:11
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    ernsteiswuerfel
    Posts: 313 from 2015/6/18
    From: Funeralopolis
    Quote:

    jacadcaps schrieb:
    Would be hard to do anything about this without having an actual device.

    As it's actually not that expensive I could buy and send you one (or the person who does the USB stack on MorphOS) ;-) If this is of some help.
    Talos II. [Gentoo Linux] | PMac G5 7,3. PMac G4 3,6. PBook G4 5,8. [MorphOS 3.12; Gentoo/Void/Adelie Linux] | A1200. ACA-1233, Indivision AGA Mk2. [AmigaOS 3.2]
  • »23.10.19 - 09:40
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    ernsteiswuerfel
    Posts: 313 from 2015/6/18
    From: Funeralopolis
    Quote:

    ASiegel schrieb:
    Quote:

    ernsteiswuerfel wrote:
    Is there a chance this situation improves with future MorphOS versions? Are there any 'known good' USB switches cooperating well with MorphOS?


    I'm using a UGREEN model that appears to work flawlessly and can be found on Ebay or Amazon.


    Thanks! Though these USB switches are only for 2 PCs, I need one for 4 PCs.
    Talos II. [Gentoo Linux] | PMac G5 7,3. PMac G4 3,6. PBook G4 5,8. [MorphOS 3.12; Gentoo/Void/Adelie Linux] | A1200. ACA-1233, Indivision AGA Mk2. [AmigaOS 3.2]
  • »23.10.19 - 09:43
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    ernsteiswuerfel
    Posts: 313 from 2015/6/18
    From: Funeralopolis
    So I followed ASiegels advice and bought an UGREEN witch but a 4-port model. It's a full KVM switch with VGA (there is no 4-port variant without VGA). But the problem stays the same. :-(

    When the switch is connected I get a freeze pretty soon after copying any data or downloading any data. The freeze happens faster if I copy data to the SSD. Copying and playing around with files in RAM: works a little longer.

    Same problem not only with my two switches but with an additional 4-port PCI USB-adapter (EX-1064). This MorphOS-USB-stack is reaaally picky... At least on this machine. No problems on Linux whatsoever.

    Sometimes after the freeze I get this "DEAD USB" message.

    Another interesting thing is that after a reboot mouse/keyboard work flawlessly in OpenFirmware or the yaboot menu. But if I boot MorphOS from yaboot after sucha a freeze I have to unplug and replug mouse/keyboard on the switch to make them usable again.
    Talos II. [Gentoo Linux] | PMac G5 7,3. PMac G4 3,6. PBook G4 5,8. [MorphOS 3.12; Gentoo/Void/Adelie Linux] | A1200. ACA-1233, Indivision AGA Mk2. [AmigaOS 3.2]
  • »08.11.19 - 22:08
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  • ASiegel
    Posts: 1179 from 2003/2/15
    From: Central Europe
    Quote:

    So I followed ASiegels advice and bought an UGREEN witch but a 4-port model. It's a full KVM switch with VGA (there is no 4-port variant without VGA).

    Actually, there are versions without VGA that work with 4 computers.

    See here: Example

    Also, I just meant to provide a data point for what is known to work with MorphOS. I cannot make any definite statements about their entire product portfolio.

    I used to own an ATEN DVI KVM (for 4 machines) that I only gave up after moving to 2560x1440 half a decade ago since it was limited to 1080P resolutions. This too worked with MorphOS for me. Occasionally, I had to replug USB devices after switching back to MorphOS but I think I fixed that by tweaking Poseidon settings.
  • »09.11.19 - 05:21
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    ernsteiswuerfel
    Posts: 313 from 2015/6/18
    From: Funeralopolis
    Quote:

    ASiegel schrieb:
    Also, I just meant to provide a data point for what is known to work with MorphOS. I cannot make any definite statements about their entire product portfolio.

    I used to own an ATEN DVI KVM (for 4 machines) that I only gave up after moving to 2560x1440 half a decade ago since it was limited to 1080P resolutions. This too worked with MorphOS for me. Occasionally, I had to replug USB devices after switching back to MorphOS but I think I fixed that by tweaking Poseidon settings.

    No prob. I saw your advice not as a guarantee but thought of it as a possible easy way out of my G4 DP problem. ;-)

    If the problem could be solved by replugging mouse/keyboard it would be also kinda ok. But full freezes are another thing. At least the SFS partitions don't show any kind of damage after my 'experiments'. Found out I don't even need a switch for this kind of freeze. Trying to copy data from a USB stick to HDD is already enough...

    Thanks for looking this other switch up. Found it too during my research but it has only 1 port to share between 4 computers. One too less for mouse/keyboard. ;-)
    Talos II. [Gentoo Linux] | PMac G5 7,3. PMac G4 3,6. PBook G4 5,8. [MorphOS 3.12; Gentoo/Void/Adelie Linux] | A1200. ACA-1233, Indivision AGA Mk2. [AmigaOS 3.2]
  • »09.11.19 - 09:26
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  • ASiegel
    Posts: 1179 from 2003/2/15
    From: Central Europe
    Quote:

    ernsteiswuerfel wrote:
    Found out I don't even need a switch for this kind of freeze. Trying to copy data from a USB stick to HDD is already enough...

    Well, this sounds like a serious bug. Please make sure to report the issue via the included tool.

    Since no switches are required to reproduce the problem, this should make testing and potentially solving the issue easier.

    I occasionally have problems with Ambient almost freezing when I use a particular 32GB USB flash drive but the problems tend to go away if I wait long enough. That said, the same drive is wonky on other computers too. I bought it for 5 EUR including shipping so I am not overly surprised.

    Quote:

    Thanks for looking this other switch up. Found it too during my research but it has only 1 port to share between 4 computers. One too less for mouse/keyboard. ;-)

    Even though I own the version with four input ports, I use a wired Apple keyboard. Its built-in USB hub seems to work well enough to drive an additional mouse as well as one USB flash drive.

    To my own surprise, there were no issues when switching so I use the hub all the time for convenience.
  • »09.11.19 - 09:37
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  • Moderator
    Kronos
    Posts: 1943 from 2003/2/24
    Quote:

    ASiegel wrote:

    I occasionally have problems with Ambient almost freezing when I use a particular 32GB USB flash drive but the problems tend to go away if I wait long enough.
    ..........
    Even though I own the version with four input ports, I use a wired Apple keyboard. Its built-in USB hub seems to work well enough to drive an additional mouse as well as one USB flash drive.





    You sure those are not related, cos when I use a USB stick on a kbd that has a mouse receiver plugged in I do get issues.

    AFAIK it's about Poseidon not being able to put the keyboard into a high power mode the same way OSX does.

    [ Edited by Kronos 09.11.2019 - 10:44 ]
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  • »09.11.19 - 09:44
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  • ASiegel
    Posts: 1179 from 2003/2/15
    From: Central Europe
    Quote:

    Kronos wrote:
    You sure those are not related, cos when I use a USB stick on a kbd that has a mouse receiver plugged in I do get issues.

    AFAIK it's about Poseidon not being able to put the keyboard into a high power mode the same way OSX does.


    This is a probable scenario that is worth pointing out but I am absolutely sure because I tested the USB flash drive extensively when connected directly to the USB switch.

    Of course, the switch itself is merely powered via USB cable so this maybe another source for problems but, as I mentioned, the stick behaves oddly on other computers (without any switches) as well.
  • »09.11.19 - 09:57
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    ernsteiswuerfel
    Posts: 313 from 2015/6/18
    From: Funeralopolis
    There is certainly going something on with this cursed (?) G4 DP... Also get freezes when trying to install the new MorphOS SDK.

    1. Download the SDK to DH1: (HDD)
    2. Open .lha + install SDK out from the .lha
    3. Starts installing to DH0: (SSD)
    4. Freeze after coyping some 100-140 MiB

    Tried that several times, each time with the same result.

    Are there some meaningful debugging options for Logtool I should set for such a case?

    I am not seeing any crashdump, just a plain freeze. Which means: File copying stops, cant' use mouse/keyboard. Only interesting thing is that the task manager does seem to continue running normally.
    Talos II. [Gentoo Linux] | PMac G5 7,3. PMac G4 3,6. PBook G4 5,8. [MorphOS 3.12; Gentoo/Void/Adelie Linux] | A1200. ACA-1233, Indivision AGA Mk2. [AmigaOS 3.2]
  • »12.11.19 - 21:47
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