Pegasos 2 HDD/SSD SATA options
  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    sailor
    Posts: 80 from 2019/5/9
    Quote:

    connor wrote:
    > https://www.probers.cz/jak-pretaktovat-procesor-u-pegasose-ii/
    Wow, that’s a monster cooler! Does it not pull out the CPU card because of the big size and heavy weight? I would fear that could damage the CPU card and slot and mainboard.



    Here some photos of ARCTIC Alpine M1-Passive Socket AM1 ( with fan ;-))
    Previously used Thermalright HR-05 SLI blocked IDE connectors.
    00-arctic1.jpg 01-arctic2.jpg 02-arctic2a.jpg 03-arctic3.jpg 04-arctic4.jpg 05-arctic5.jpg
    Pegasos II 1.33GHz, AmigaOne X1000, Powermac G5 Quad, iMac G5, Powerbook G4 and Z10PE-D16 WS
    MorphOS, AmigaOS, Debian, Ubuntu, OSX, NetBSD, Win7 ;-)
  • »18.05.20 - 09:07
    Profile
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    connor
    Posts: 531 from 2007/7/29
    Quote:

    sailor wrote:
    Quote:

    connor wrote:
    Sailor: your screenshot in the first message cannot be viewed: Error 451!
    The page is blocked due to the decision of the authorities in your area.
    Can you include it in the text or upload it to another place?


    See here:
    Peg2(1.33GHz) Controllers Comparison


    Thank you. So for this byte aligned (what ever it is) transfers you also get only low data rate like 1 or 2 MB/s. Maybe all my copy processes (ambient or CLI) from one partition to another are byte aligned and it is so slow on my Peg because of this?
  • »18.05.20 - 17:53
    Profile
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    connor
    Posts: 531 from 2007/7/29
    Quote:

    sailor wrote:
    Quote:

    connor wrote:
    > https://www.probers.cz/jak-pretaktovat-procesor-u-pegasose-ii/
    Wow, that’s a monster cooler! Does it not pull out the CPU card because of the big size and heavy weight? I would fear that could damage the CPU card and slot and mainboard.



    Here some photos of ARCTIC Alpine M1-Passive Socket AM1 ( with fan ;-))
    Previously used Thermalright HR-05 SLI blocked IDE connectors.
    00-arctic1.jpg 01-arctic2.jpg 02-arctic2a.jpg 03-arctic3.jpg 04-arctic4.jpg 05-arctic5.jpg


    Wow, thats a huge block! I don't have the tools to cut this in the right size. And in the end you also need a fan on top of the cooler. So it still makes noise. But impressive cube :-)
  • »18.05.20 - 17:55
    Profile
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    connor
    Posts: 531 from 2007/7/29
    Quote:

    sailor wrote:
    >I would be happy if my Pegasos 2 would be as fast as yours. I mean the Pegasos itself is fast but harddrives are always slow when I copy files. I don’t know why but I only get transfer rates of 1MB/s in average when I copy big files like images, sound files, videos. This is on the IDE drive and the SATA drives. Even on SATA drive with the ulsata device you mention I only get this slow speed. This is much worse than USB! What can be wrong? Which settings can I check?

    I am sure that default morphos settings are OK. Simply I don't know. Maybe try to increase number of buffers - what is your actual number?



    It is 64 on all partitions. This is the default that HDConfig sets.

    Quote:

    sailor wrote:
    >> https://www.probers.cz/jak-pretaktovat-procesor-u-pegasose-ii/
    >Wow, that’s a monster cooler! Does it not pull out the CPU card because of the big size and heavy weight? I would fear that could damage the CPU card and slot and mainboard.

    Yes this one and also my actual cooler (ARCTIC Alpine M1-Passive Socket AM1) are oversized. I calculated that overclocked CPU MPC7447 have less then 30W TDP. You can use some smaller if you want, but it is quite difficult find some which fits on CPU card. And motherboard+cpucard are OK. I will post photo somewhere.


    I would want to have it silent :-)
    Quote:

    sailor wrote:
    >You write:
    >> Only things what I did against this is new power supply and proper cooling:
    I used oversized passive cooler with fan, passive cooler on RAM, passive coolers on Northbridge and Southbridge.
    >But on the pictures I see only active coollers (fans). Do you have other pcitures? And which passive colllers do you use?

    I will post photos.


    So the new pictrures all all active cooled, I think. A passive cooler with a fan isn't that active? Because the fan is active.

    Quote:

    sailor wrote:
    >> And if, please can you check the morphos-debug.log, if your drives recognized like UDMA5=100MB/s or UDMA6=133MB/s.
    >How can I do this?

    the easiest way is to use builtin Screenbar module: Debug
    You can see here all boot messages


    It says:
    PCI ATA/ATAPI Driver@0: PIO Mode 4
    PCI ATA/ATAPI Driver@0: UDMA Mode 5
    PCI ATA/ATAPI Driver@2: PIO Mode 4
    PCI ATA/ATAPI Driver@2: UDMA Mode 5

    One is the CD-ROM and the other is the hard disk. So they both use 100MB/s.

    Quote:

    sailor wrote:
    > PCI HD 5450
    Is that the best card for the Pegasos 2?
    HD 5450 PCI - newest, 2D, no overlay, 19W only
    HD 4350 PCI - 2D, hardware overlay, 20W only
    9800 PRO AGP - 2D, 3D, 47W.
    It depends, what you want to do with your Peg. But I do not tried the PCI cards.


    3D I don't need (I think) because I don't run 3D games. Overlay is only for MPlayer important?
    PCI is slower than AGP. Can you feel it?

    Quote:

    sailor wrote:
    > > I cannot find pair of RAMs which have no errors
    > 2× 1 GiB can only work error-free on revision 2B5 boards.
    I have that board. Which RAM do I have to buy?
    you can try this-modules or this - they works each at least on one Pegasos2. But you have no guarantee, you have to try them.

    I try to find them.
  • »20.05.20 - 11:55
    Profile
  • Just looking around
    OffseT
    Posts: 14 from 2019/8/23
    Yes. Graphics card on PCI are noticeably slower than on AGP. You can feel it.

    I even tested PCI-express card through a PCI to PCIe adapter, And I switched back to my Radeon 9700 Pro which is much faster and have full 3D support. It also can handle 2K resolutions with no issue.

    [ Edité par OffseT 20.05.2020 - 13:16 ]

    [ Edité par OffseT 20.05.2020 - 13:17 ]
  • »20.05.20 - 13:15
    Profile Visit Website
  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    sailor
    Posts: 80 from 2019/5/9
    Quote:

    connor wrote:
    It is 64 on all partitions. This is the default that HDConfig sets.

    I use more, 200 or 300. But if you have low speed with read/write big files, I think it is not the case. Look for max tansfer value - it it limited somehow?

    Quote:

    connor wrote:
    I would want to have it silent :-)
    ...
    So the new pictrures all all active cooled, I think. A passive cooler with a fan isn't that active? Because the fan is active.

    It is up to you. If you have big case with good airflow, you can use this cooler without fan.
    CPU MPC7447(A):
    6.5W @ 900 MHz
    7.5W @ 1066 MHz
    19W @ 1420 MHz
    ARCTIC Alpine M1 Passive RECOMMENDED FOR TDP UP TO: 35 W

    I have nearby bigger cooler of graphics card and I want also have some airflow around northbridge - thus I used the fan. And yes, is is active now. But the name of cooler itself stays "M1 passive" ;-)

    Quote:

    connor wrote:
    PCI ATA/ATAPI Driver@0: PIO Mode 4
    PCI ATA/ATAPI Driver@0: UDMA Mode 5
    PCI ATA/ATAPI Driver@2: PIO Mode 4
    PCI ATA/ATAPI Driver@2: UDMA Mode 5
    One is the CD-ROM and the other is the hard disk. So they both use 100MB/s.


    OK - same values like me. But these numbers are OK for internal IDE. For SiI SATA cards you can (in theory) have 133MB/s, but MOS sata.device is show stopper here.

    Quote:

    sailor wrote:
    > PCI HD 5450
    Is that the best card for the Pegasos 2?
    HD 5450 PCI - newest, 2D, no overlay, 19W only
    HD 4350 PCI - 2D, hardware overlay, 20W only
    9800 PRO AGP - 2D, 3D, 47W.
    It depends, what you want to do with your Peg. But I do not tried the PCI cards.
    Quote:

    connor wrote:
    3D I don't need (I think) because I don't run 3D games. Overlay is only for MPlayer important?
    PCI is slower than AGP. Can you feel it?


    Yes, overlay is for playing videos.
    As a said - I do not used any PCI card, I simply don't know.
    In theory - if you succeed to find (or make) some AGPx1->PCI riser ( something like reversed riser for efika) you can try PCI card in AGP slot - in such case it will have double speed - 66MHz ( compares to 33MHz of other PCI slots).
    Pegasos II 1.33GHz, AmigaOne X1000, Powermac G5 Quad, iMac G5, Powerbook G4 and Z10PE-D16 WS
    MorphOS, AmigaOS, Debian, Ubuntu, OSX, NetBSD, Win7 ;-)
  • »20.05.20 - 13:44
    Profile
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    connor
    Posts: 531 from 2007/7/29
    Quote:

    OffseT wrote:
    Yes. Graphics card on PCI are noticeably slower than on AGP. You can feel it.

    I even tested PCI-express card through a PCI to PCIe adapter, And I switched back to my Radeon 9700 Pro which is much faster and have full 3D support. It also can handle 2K resolutions with no issue.


    So the PCI cards are only better for more video RAM to show more windows and screens? This would be good but if it is slower then it is not a good change. I think I only have AGP Radeon 9200P or so. Is it also faster then PCI cards?
  • »20.05.20 - 13:54
    Profile
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    connor
    Posts: 531 from 2007/7/29
    Quote:

    sailor wrote:
    I use more, 200 or 300. But if you have low speed with read/write big files, I think it is not the case. Look for max tansfer value - it it limited somehow?


    I don't know . I don't underdtand all these settings. I always let them on default. Only for IceFS I changed them like written in the manual but IceFS still has so many bugs that it is impossible to use - but other construction site.

    Here I use SFS. And for SFS the Max Transfer is 0xffffffff and Mask (on the right to it) is 0x7ffffffe.
    How big is one buffer? One byte? Kilobyte? Megabyte? How can I know the right number of buffers? Because it is the same for all partitions. For 1GB and for 120GB.
    Quote:


    It is up to you. If you have big case with good airflow, you can use this cooler without fan.
    CPU MPC7447(A):
    6.5W @ 900 MHz
    7.5W @ 1066 MHz
    19W @ 1420 MHz
    ARCTIC Alpine M1 Passive RECOMMENDED FOR TDP UP TO: 35 W


    No. I have a normal Micro ATX case. Maybe this is too small. I do not know which one is enough.
    I found the cooler on amazon but not avilable. Maybe it is too old. I will look further. Funny thing: warranty 6 years, haha. It is just a piece of metal. Only a block. Nothing more. What should happen after 6 years? Break it? Melt it? :-)
    Quote:


    I have nearby bigger cooler of graphics card and I want also have some airflow around northbridge - thus I used the fan. And yes, is is active now. But the name of cooler itself stays "M1 passive" ;-)


    I already use passive graphics card. But the CPU is noisy.
    Quote:


    OK - same values like me. But these numbers are OK for internal IDE. For SiI SATA cards you can (in theory) have 133MB/s, but MOS sata.device is show stopper here.


    I have one of the cards that work with ulsata2.device. It says UDMA6. So this seems to be good. But MOS cannot from that. Pity. Because hten I could remove the IDE disk. Or maybe the mos team should upgrade the sata.device to allow boot from it and higher speed.

    Quote:

    sailor wrote:

    Yes, overlay is for playing videos.
    As a said - I do not used any PCI card, I simply don't know.
    In theory - if you succeed to find (or make) some AGPx1->PCI riser ( something like reversed riser for efika) you can try PCI card in AGP slot - in such case it will have double speed - 66MHz ( compares to 33MHz of other PCI slots).


    I see if I can find it. Then I can look for a 2D card with overlay.
  • »20.05.20 - 14:17
    Profile
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10932 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Overlay is only for MPlayer important?

    It's also for playing video inside Odyssey as well as for many emulators (for free resizing of the window).
  • »20.05.20 - 15:25
    Profile
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10932 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > So the PCI cards are only better for more video RAM to show more windows and screens?

    MorphOS can't use more than 256 MiB VRAM, btw.

    > I think I only have AGP Radeon 9200P or so. Is it also faster then PCI cards?

    Yes, likely.
  • »20.05.20 - 16:06
    Profile
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    connor
    Posts: 531 from 2007/7/29
    I thought OWB uses MPlayer. How is it with scene demos or SDL programs that use full screen or window resize?
    OK emulators I don't need.
  • »20.05.20 - 16:06
    Profile
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10932 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > How big is one buffer?

    I think that one buffer equals the size of the block size set for the filesystem.

    >> In theory - if you succeed to find (or make) some AGPx1->PCI riser
    >> [...] you can try PCI card in AGP slot

    > I see if I can find it.

    Good luck. I've never seen such thing.
  • »20.05.20 - 16:22
    Profile
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10932 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > I thought OWB uses MPlayer.

    It doesn't use any external program for anything unless explicitly configured to do so. Both OWB's internal video player and MPlayer use integrated FFmpeg for video decoding.

    > How is it with scene demos or SDL programs that use full screen or window resize?

    No idea, sorry.
  • »20.05.20 - 16:29
    Profile
  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    sailor
    Posts: 80 from 2019/5/9
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    >> In theory - if you succeed to find (or make) some AGPx1->PCI riser
    >> [...] you can try PCI card in AGP slot

    > I see if I can find it.

    Good luck. I've never seen such thing.

    Me also not. Only xserve G4 have similar 90° riser.
    You need AGP 1x v1.0, 3.3V and PCI v2.1 3.3V 66MHz.
    If you very need it, you have to made it. ;-) It looks easy.
    Pegasos II 1.33GHz, AmigaOne X1000, Powermac G5 Quad, iMac G5, Powerbook G4 and Z10PE-D16 WS
    MorphOS, AmigaOS, Debian, Ubuntu, OSX, NetBSD, Win7 ;-)
  • »21.05.20 - 08:32
    Profile
  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    sailor
    Posts: 80 from 2019/5/9
    Quote:

    connor wrote:
    Here I use SFS. And for SFS the Max Transfer is 0xffffffff and Mask (on the right to it) is 0x7ffffffe.

    It's default value, thus OK. I don't know why you have such slow speed. You can try other disk and other cable. If I copy real big files IDE <-> SiL SATA, I have around 30MB/s.

    Code:
    System:> time copy Backup:test.data Work:

    Time Elapsed: 25.5951s

    System:> ls -al Work:test.data
    -rwx------ 1 nobody nogroup 805306368 May 2 19:25 Work:test.data

    This result is file from SATA HDD(SiI controller) to SATA SSD (internal IDE+Axago IDE-SATA adapter). I don't remember, if it was before overclocking or after.
    Pegasos II 1.33GHz, AmigaOne X1000, Powermac G5 Quad, iMac G5, Powerbook G4 and Z10PE-D16 WS
    MorphOS, AmigaOS, Debian, Ubuntu, OSX, NetBSD, Win7 ;-)
  • »21.05.20 - 08:48
    Profile
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Brumiga
    Posts: 205 from 2004/4/3
    From: France
    @Connor,

    You have set up too few buffers for your partitions. Type the command addbuffer in a cli/shell to know how much buffers you have for all your partitions. Where have you find this value of 64 for the buffers of each partition ?

    I have searched on obligement.free.fr by typing 'installation morphos' and here are the results with differents versions of morphos. At the beginnings of morphos 1.4.x with scsciconfig the buffers setup was 600 for each partition. With morphos 2.0 this value was lowered to 300 for each partition. On the article morphos 2.6/2.7 as 2.x/3.x the value is the same, 300. On most recent articles about morphos 3.0/3.9 and 3.10/3.12 the value indicated is lowered to 128 but on grabbed pictures the value is steel 300.

    By tries increase the buffers value for each partition to 128 or 300 and verify how better the datas throughput are. This will take a few more memory but if the transferts are better it is not a problem.

    Brumiga
  • »21.05.20 - 14:10
    Profile
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10932 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    >>>> In theory - if you succeed to find (or make) some AGPx1->PCI riser
    >>>> [...] you can try PCI card in AGP slot

    >>> I see if I can find it.

    >> Good luck. I've never seen such thing.

    > xserve G4 have similar 90° riser.
    > You need AGP 1x v1.0, 3.3V and PCI v2.1 3.3V 66MHz.

    Very nice find, I wasn't aware of this riser. The AGP side seems compatible with the Pegasos 2 and the (64-bit) PCI side seems compatible with (32-bit) Radeon HD cards. Would be cool if someone tried in his Pegasos and compared performance with the same Radeon HD card installed directly in 33 MHz PCI slot.
  • »21.05.20 - 16:10
    Profile
  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    sailor
    Posts: 80 from 2019/5/9
    Last rest - I need to find new free place for photos
    Quote:

    connor wrote:
    > Only things what I did against this is new power supply and proper cooling:
    I used oversized passive cooler with fan, passive cooler on RAM, passive coolers on Northbridge and Southbridge.

    But on the pictures I see only active coollers (fans). Do you have other pcitures? And which passive colllers do you use?

    Passive coolers - 13-northbridge.jpg, 14-southbridge.jpg, 12-memory.jpg, 10-GPU1.jpg, 11-GPU2.jpg
    coolers for north+southbridge are Primecooler PC-RHS5 (for graphics card mem chips),
    cooler for memory is Thermaltake 839280002127,
    cooler for overclocked Radeon 9800 is modified THERMALRIGHT V-1 Ultra.
    Pegasos II 1.33GHz, AmigaOne X1000, Powermac G5 Quad, iMac G5, Powerbook G4 and Z10PE-D16 WS
    MorphOS, AmigaOS, Debian, Ubuntu, OSX, NetBSD, Win7 ;-)
  • »22.05.20 - 08:48
    Profile
  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    sailor
    Posts: 80 from 2019/5/9
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > xserve G4 have similar 90° riser.
    > You need AGP 1x v1.0, 3.3V and PCI v2.1 3.3V 66MHz.

    Very nice find, I wasn't aware of this riser. The AGP side seems compatible with the Pegasos 2 and the (64-bit) PCI side seems compatible with (32-bit) Radeon HD cards. Would be cool if someone tried in his Pegasos and compared performance with the same Radeon HD card installed directly in 33 MHz PCI slot.

    Exactly this I have in plan. I want to buy this riser, and wait for some cheap HD 4350 PCI. I don't need 3D, but want video accel, thus HD 5450 have no sense for me (yet). And if it will work and be faster then Radeon 9800, I try to produce riser that fits to Pegasos.
    Right to say, that this plan is very very long-term... ;-)
    Pegasos II 1.33GHz, AmigaOne X1000, Powermac G5 Quad, iMac G5, Powerbook G4 and Z10PE-D16 WS
    MorphOS, AmigaOS, Debian, Ubuntu, OSX, NetBSD, Win7 ;-)
  • »22.05.20 - 08:55
    Profile
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    connor
    Posts: 531 from 2007/7/29
    Quote:

    sailor wrote:
    Quote:

    connor wrote:
    Here I use SFS. And for SFS the Max Transfer is 0xffffffff and Mask (on the right to it) is 0x7ffffffe.

    It's default value, thus OK. I don't know why you have such slow speed. You can try other disk and other cable. If I copy real big files IDE <-> SiL SATA, I have around 30MB/s.

    Code:
    System:> time copy Backup:test.data Work:

    Time Elapsed: 25.5951s

    System:> ls -al Work:test.data
    -rwx------ 1 nobody nogroup 805306368 May 2 19:25 Work:test.data

    This result is file from SATA HDD(SiI controller) to SATA SSD (internal IDE+Axago IDE-SATA adapter). I don't remember, if it was before overclocking or after.



    I already tried several disks. The cable is new and good. I copied from SATA one SFS partition to another SFS partition. If I copy such large files then I have to wait for hours because it only achieves (in average) a bit more han 1MB/s. It is also like this when I copy only on the IDE disk from one poarttion to another or from IDE to SATA or from SATA to IDE.
  • »22.05.20 - 13:10
    Profile
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    connor
    Posts: 531 from 2007/7/29
    Quote:

    Brumiga wrote:
    @Connor,

    You have set up too few buffers for your partitions. Type the command addbuffer in a cli/shell to know how much buffers you have for all your partitions. Where have you find this value of 64 for the buffers of each partition ?

    I have searched on obligement.free.fr by typing 'installation morphos' and here are the results with differents versions of morphos. At the beginnings of morphos 1.4.x with scsciconfig the buffers setup was 600 for each partition. With morphos 2.0 this value was lowered to 300 for each partition. On the article morphos 2.6/2.7 as 2.x/3.x the value is the same, 300. On most recent articles about morphos 3.0/3.9 and 3.10/3.12 the value indicated is lowered to 128 but on grabbed pictures the value is steel 300.

    By tries increase the buffers value for each partition to 128 or 300 and verify how better the datas throughput are. This will take a few more memory but if the transferts are better it is not a problem.

    Brumiga


    Not I have set this up but MOS has set this up. I said "create a new partition" and MOS set all the values. I must expect that MOS knows right what the correct values are becuase it does all the detection and preparation, how can a user know this and if they are different then MOS has to inform the user about the right settings.
    The value for the buffer is written in HDConfig if you click on the partition.
    With addbuffers it shows that every partition has 128 buffers. Only the IceFS partitions say "unknown DOS packet request type".
    I Installed MorphOS with 3.10. I added all buffers to 300 now. With a large file I get almost 4MB/s. Still very low. So there must be nother reason.
  • »22.05.20 - 14:10
    Profile