MorphOS doesn't detect internal 512 GB SSD (OS X does)
  • Just looking around
    Posts: 11 from 2018/4/11
    What the title says. Machine is a 1.5GHz Mac mini G4. Is this a known MorphOS issue? For instance, is it the fact the drive is too big, and MorphOS isn't prepared? Is it because of the fact it's an SSD? (Probably not.) Or is it a MorphOS problem with the exact SSD I have specifically from the manufacturer, which in this case is SuperTalent?

    Given the fact it works perfectly under OS X, we know it's a problem on MorphOS' end. Can something be done?

    I keep wanting to try to give MorphOS (and the Amiga family as a whole) a chance, but there's always something that goes wrong. First, I discover it has no FireWire support. Then I discover it can't install onto USB (IWizard wouldn't let me). And now this: can't use an IDE SSD of 512 GB...

    DDD:

    Incidentally, the exact message I see from IWizard is "No storage media found. Please make sure you have some hard drive or different storage media connected."

    At this point I'm going to assume the only way I'll be experiencing MorphOS will be via QEMU. I'll see if I can instal from the USB install rather than CD, that will be the last thing to try, perhaps tomorrow. But if that also fails, if it can't use a big-sized SSD within my Mac mini G4, then I'm simply done with this system.

    Any help would be appreciated, although I assume this issue can only be fixed by the MorphOS devs by fixing MorphOS itself. :(


    Edit: Booting the installer from USB made no difference: the internal drive remains undetected by MorphOS.

    [ Edited by Dubba 07.03.2019 - 04:49 ]
  • »06.03.19 - 23:32
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    koszer
    Posts: 864 from 2004/2/8
    From: Poland
    And what does the HDConfig tool say? Can it see any device other than optical drive?
  • »07.03.19 - 06:39
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Amigaharry2
    Posts: 571 from 2010/1/6
    From: EU-Austria (Wien)
    Btw Firewire is 3rd party: http://www.morphos-storage.net/index.php?find=helios
    It's beta, but works for HDs....and you cannot boot from it.
    If you need alternative possibility to boot (beside from CD): It's possible to boot your Mini directly from USB (Stick or HD) via Open Firmware.
    1xPeg2, PowerMac G5, PowerbookG4, 2x MacMiniG4, Efika (again), A3000T, A3000D and life is never boring.....
  • »07.03.19 - 08:34
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  • Just looking around
    Posts: 11 from 2018/4/11
    Quote:

    koszer wrote:
    And what does the HDConfig tool say? Can it see any device other than optical drive?

    It doesn't detect it, either. I tried it beforehand, but no luck. Only optical drive was listed. USB drives (the ones I tried) were detected just fine in all scenarios, however.

    Quote:

    Amigaharry2 wrote:
    Btw Firewire is 3rd party: http://www.morphos-storage.net/index.php?find=helios
    It's beta, but works for HDs....and you cannot boot from it.
    If you need alternative possibility to boot (beside from CD): It's possible to boot your Mini directly from USB (Stick or HD) via Open Firmware.

    Thanks, for FW, that's already something. I think I have heard of that one before. Wish it worked as a boot option, though.
    About booting from USB, yeah, I followed the OF boot tutorial, and that worked just fine. But can I install MorphOS on a USB stick and boot from a full install, as well, or is it just the installer that can boot from USB? If I can boot via USB with a full MorphOS install, I don't mind going into Open Firmware each time to do so.

    Regardless, I appreciate the support, though, from both of you. Thanks.
  • »07.03.19 - 10:47
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10302 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    >> Firewire is 3rd party: [...] It's beta, but works for HDs

    > that's already something. I think I have heard of that one before.

    Indeed :-)
  • »07.03.19 - 13:12
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Amigaharry2
    Posts: 571 from 2010/1/6
    From: EU-Austria (Wien)
    Quote:

    Amigaharry2 wrote:
    ...
    About booting from USB, yeah, I followed the OF boot tutorial, and that worked just fine. But can I install MorphOS on a USB stick and boot from a full install, as well, or is it just the installer that can boot from USB? If I can boot via USB with a full MorphOS install, I don't mind going into Open Firmware each time to do so.

    Regardless, I appreciate the support, though, from both of you. Thanks.


    You can boot complete MorphOS (or MacOS) from USB.
    You need 2 Partition USB-Stick: one small partition in hfs for boot.img and ab bootable, second one in SFS for System (and may be further more partitions for Work, etc....)

    command in OF: boot ud:,\boot.img BD=<Name of USB-Systempartition>

    The USB-Stick, HD, whatever, should be inserted before OF-booting! Otherwise, in some cases, OF won't recognize the stick...

    To boot MacOS from stick you need a complete Mac-System on the stick. If bootx (Mac-bootloader) is blessed then enter

    boot ud:,\\:tbxi


    If this does'nt work you need to enter full path:

    boot ud:,\system\library\coreservices\bootx

    This is very usefull for a MorphOS-Mainsystem and rare useing MacOS...
    With a forth-bootscript this option between Mac or MorphOS can be automatisized. You will get a small menue in OF where you can do your choice by pressing key 1 or 2, or do nothing - then your prefered OS boots automatically after some seconds.
    1xPeg2, PowerMac G5, PowerbookG4, 2x MacMiniG4, Efika (again), A3000T, A3000D and life is never boring.....
  • »07.03.19 - 16:01
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  • Just looking around
    Posts: 11 from 2018/4/11
    Wow, that was very helpful, Amigaharry2! Thank you! If USB is an install option, then it looks like I'll be checking out MorphOS properly, afterall!

    And, OK, I understood the instructions. I'll make sure to follow them, hopefully tomorrow. Also, am I correct in assuming that these OF commands will only work if the USB device is connected directly into the Mac mini, and not into a USB hub?

    I imagine that it works with a USB hub, too, but that I'd have to first discover the aliases or where in the device tree the USB device will show up, right? I mean, I guess following these steps must be good enough: https://www.morphos-team.net/guide/usb-boot

    Can I use the same USB device for MorphOS and Mac OS X? Like:
    - HFS partition "Boot" (for MorphOS);
    - SFS partition "MorphOS System" (for MorphOS);
    - SFS partition "Work" (for MorphOS);
    - HFS+ partition "Mac" (for Mac OS X).
    Or Mac OS X and MorphOS have to be on separate devices?

    Also, I'd be interested in learning more about preparing Forth scripts for easy booting! Is there a website link that shows how that can be done? Currently I'm trying to learn from here: https://elinux.org/Flameman/openfirmware-apple

    Anyway, thanks again for the help!
  • »07.03.19 - 22:27
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  • jPV
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    jPV
    Posts: 1498 from 2003/2/24
    From: po-RNO
    Quote:

    Dubba wrote:
    And, OK, I understood the instructions. I'll make sure to follow them, hopefully tomorrow. Also, am I correct in assuming that these OF commands will only work if the USB device is connected directly into the Mac mini, and not into a USB hub?

    I imagine that it works with a USB hub, too, but that I'd have to first discover the aliases or where in the device tree the USB device will show up, right? I mean, I guess following these steps must be good enough: https://www.morphos-team.net/guide/usb-boot

    Yes, hubs work too, but you'll have to dig and type more information. Here's something more about the booting MorphOS from the OF prompt: https://library.morph.zone/Open_Firmware#Booting_MorphOS


    Quote:

    Can I use the same USB device for MorphOS and Mac OS X? Like:
    - HFS partition "Boot" (for MorphOS);
    - SFS partition "MorphOS System" (for MorphOS);
    - SFS partition "Work" (for MorphOS);
    - HFS+ partition "Mac" (for Mac OS X).
    Or Mac OS X and MorphOS have to be on separate devices?

    Basically yes, I think... using APM/FAT was a problematic combo, but I guess OF should see APM/HFS partition on a USB device too. And if it doesn't, you could put boot files on a HFS/HFS+ partition on HD, and then use them to boot the rest of the system from a USB device.


    Quote:

    Also, I'd be interested in learning more about preparing Forth scripts for easy booting! Is there a website link that shows how that can be done? Currently I'm trying to learn from here: https://elinux.org/Flameman/openfirmware-apple

    There's been some threads discussing Forth made boot menus... I think this is the most recent.
  • »08.03.19 - 06:18
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Amigaharry2
    Posts: 571 from 2010/1/6
    From: EU-Austria (Wien)
    I don't recommand a hub between. Normaly OF creats the right path to a connected USB-Device, but this depends on OF-Version (the device MUSST be inserted before booting OF). Older versions does'nt do that and you have to set path manually, which is a bit tricky.
    If there are more USB-Devices connected to that hub, you may loose bandwith, which may slow down the system.

    If you heve created your bootscript, yo need to change some env-variables in OF:

    To see the actual settings type >printenv

    following entries have to be set:

    setenv boot-device hd:,\menue
    setenv boot-file menue
    setenv boot-command boot

    Menue is the name of your bootscript, which has to be located on first (hfs) partition of boot-device (typically the same place where boot.img is located).
    It makes sense to do this on first partition of internal HD (hd:,\).
    Every time you boot now, this script is excuted first.

    Here a example of a bootscript (which has to be adepted for your requierements):

    \ FORTH - Script generated by BootCreator 1.2 (25.01.2007) by Marcin Kurek (Morgoth/D-CAPS)
    \ Mac mini adaptation - Marek 'March' Szyprowski
    \
    \ terminal control stuff
    \
    : .printf fb8-write drop ;
    : .crlf " "(0d 0a)" .printf ;
    : .clear " "(0C)" .printf ;
    : .cr " "(0d)" .printf ;
    \
    \ boot menu stuff
    \
    : my-max-boot-num 5 ;
    : my-boot-default 1 ;
    : my-boot-delay d# 100 ; \ unit = 100 ms
    : my-print-menu ( -- )
    .clear
    .crlf
    " Wellcome to PowerbookG4/PPC 5.8, registrated to Dipl. Ing. Harald Schnabl, A. Merzgasse 15-17, A2380 Perchtoldsdorf, Austria" .printf .crlf
    .crlf
    " ======= Boot Menu =======" .printf .crlf
    " " .printf .crlf
    " 1: MorphOS" .printf .crlf
    " 2: MacOS (from USB)" .printf .crlf
    " 3: CD-ROM (insert CD)" .printf .crlf
    " 4: MorphOS BootMenu" .printf .crlf
    " 5: OpenFirmware" .printf .crlf
    .crlf
    " Please press 1-5 or wait for auto boot" .printf .crlf
    ;
    : my-boot-case ( num -- )
    .crlf
    case
    1 of " boot hd:,\boot.img ramdebug BD=Boot" eval endof
    2 of " boot ud:,\\:tbxi" eval endof
    3 of " boot mac-io/ata-4@1f000/@0:3,\\:tbxi" eval endof
    4 of " boot hd:,\boot.img ramdebug BM BD=Boot" eval endof
    5 of abort endof

    endcase
    ;
    : my-input-num ( wait-period max-boot-num default-num -- boot-num )
    1 \ loop-inc = 1
    3 pick 0 do
    " ." .printf
    \ 0d emit
    \ ." press 1-"
    ( wait-period max-boot-num default-num loop-inc )
    \ 2 pick ascii 0 + emit
    \ dup 1 = if
    \ ." within "
    \ 3 pick i - d# 10 / .d
    \ ." seconds"
    \ then
    \ ." (default: "
    \ over ascii 0 + emit
    \ ." ) :
    d# 100 ms
    key? if
    key
    ( wait-period max-boot-num default-num loop-inc key )
    dup 0d = if \ return pressed
    drop leave
    then
    ascii 0 -
    ( wait-period max-boot-num default-num loop-inc num )
    dup 1 5 pick
    ( wait-period max-boot-num default-num loop-inc num num 1 max-boot-num )
    between if
    rot drop swap leave
    then
    ( wait-period max-boot-num default-num loop-inc num )
    2drop 0 \ loop-inc = 0
    then
    dup +loop
    drop
    ( wait-period max-boot-num boot-num )
    nip nip
    ;
    " screen" output
    dev screen
    " "(0000000000aa00aa0000aaaaaa0000aa00aaaa5500aaaaaa)" drop 0 7 set-colors
    " "(5555555555ff55ff5555ffffff5555ff55ffffff55ffffff)" drop 8 15 set-colors
    erase-screen
    device-end
    f to foreground-color
    0 to background-color
    my-print-menu
    my-boot-delay my-max-boot-num my-boot-default my-input-num
    my-boot-case


    1xPeg2, PowerMac G5, PowerbookG4, 2x MacMiniG4, Efika (again), A3000T, A3000D and life is never boring.....
  • »08.03.19 - 07:48
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  • MorphOS Developer
    jacadcaps
    Posts: 1745 from 2003/3/5
    From: Poland
    Quote:

    Dubba wrote:
    Given the fact it works perfectly under OS X, we know it's a problem on MorphOS' end. Can something be done?



    Could you check if it gets detected when the CD-rom isn't attached? Could be some slave/master issue...
  • »08.03.19 - 19:25
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  • Just looking around
    Posts: 11 from 2018/4/11
    Quote:

    jacadcaps wrote:
    Quote:

    Dubba wrote:
    Given the fact it works perfectly under OS X, we know it's a problem on MorphOS' end. Can something be done?



    Could you check if it gets detected when the CD-rom isn't attached? Could be some slave/master issue...

    I thought of that, as well, which is why I later booted the installer from USB. And no, it did not get detected. (No CD was inserted.)

    But I will double-check. In fact, after double-checking, I'll also set the jumper setting on the SSD back to "slave", as it's currently on "Cable Select" (and if you set it to "master", the CD/DVD drive not only stops working, the computer also presents some other problems). Then I'll USB-boot the installer again. But I expect "Cable Select" is not the issue, as it behaved like "slave" under OS X and OS 9 just fine.
  • »08.03.19 - 21:51
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Korni
    Posts: 411 from 2006/2/23
    From: the Planet of ...
    There was even a case when a different ribbon cable caused problems (powerbook ddr vs powerbook ddr2). So, if you want to be really sure - disconnect the drive.
    http://korni.ppa.pl/modkowypaczek/ | My Rifle, My Bunny, and Me
  • »08.03.19 - 22:25
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  • Just looking around
    Posts: 11 from 2018/4/11
    Quote:

    Dubba wrote:
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > it's currently on "Cable Select" [..]. But I expect "Cable Select" is not the issue,
    > as it behaved like "slave" under OS X and OS 9 just fine.

    There have been reports of Cable Select setting not working well with MorphOS while it worked well on the same (PowerMac G4) machine running Mac OS X:

    https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=7531&forum=9
    https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=12229&forum=53&start=4

    !

    I'll test it out soon.

    OK, I tested it. It made no difference to switch away from "Cable Select", and I somewhat suspected this would be the case, because, for instance, in the second example/link, the issue most likely got solved by setting the drive to "master", rather than switching from "cable select", if the problem was that "cable select" was automatically setting the drive as "slave", and it being "slave" being the actual problem.

    In my case, I set it back to "slave" (by removing the only jumper it had, here's my SSD's doc), and nothing has changed. Again, if I set it to "master", the CD/DVD drive becomes unusable, which would only create a new problem.

    I wonder what's the biggest internal HDD / SSD MorphOS users have ever installed on their Mac mini G4s, and if total drive size is indeed the problem, rather than something specific from my SSD manufacturer.
    In any case, back to setting things up for USB use...
  • »09.03.19 - 05:11
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10302 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > I tested it. It made no difference

    That's unfortunate. I have no further ideas, sorry.

    > here's my SSD's doc

    I wonder why that doc says 128 GB maximum capacity when you have a 512 GB drive.
  • »09.03.19 - 08:35
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  • jPV
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    jPV
    Posts: 1498 from 2003/2/24
    From: po-RNO
    Quote:

    Dubba wrote:

    OK, I tested it. It made no difference to switch away from "Cable Select", and I somewhat suspected this would be the case, because, for instance, in the second example/link, the issue most likely got solved by setting the drive to "master", rather than switching from "cable select", if the problem was that "cable select" was automatically setting the drive as "slave", and it being "slave" being the actual problem.

    In my case, I set it back to "slave" (by removing the only jumper it had, here's my SSD's doc), and nothing has changed. Again, if I set it to "master", the CD/DVD drive becomes unusable, which would only create a new problem.


    But did you try to remove/detach the whole CD drive (as other suggested)? Remove the cable from the CD drive and set the SSD to master. I think that'd be the most basic setup and if it doesn't work, then there's something in the actual SSD with MorphOS I think.

    [ Edited by jPV 09.03.2019 - 10:16 ]
  • »09.03.19 - 09:15
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Amigaharry2
    Posts: 571 from 2010/1/6
    From: EU-Austria (Wien)
    Maybe you've allready testet this before, but I have'nd read about it above:

    There may be a rare issue in case that CD-Drive is set to Master and HD to Slave. On some Macs CD-Drive got loss because preset OF-path in PROM to the drive is'nt valid any more. Jump them reverse and test it.....
    1xPeg2, PowerMac G5, PowerbookG4, 2x MacMiniG4, Efika (again), A3000T, A3000D and life is never boring.....
  • »09.03.19 - 09:43
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  • MorphOS Developer
    jacadcaps
    Posts: 1745 from 2003/3/5
    From: Poland
    Boot from USB with edebugflags=init at the end of the boot ud:... command line. Once booted, type getramdebuglog umsd0:log.txt and upload the log somewhere (it'll be written to the USB stick). That should show us what is going on with the IDE device detection.

    [ Edited by jacadcaps 09.03.2019 - 12:30 ]
  • »09.03.19 - 12:15
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