Abiword being ported to MorphOS.
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    redrumloa
    Posts: 1261 from 2003/4/13
    I saw this on the FB Group. I took a screen shot, but erased the gentleman's name as it his name IRL. You can check the FB Group to see the original post.

    gy3nff
  • »18.10.18 - 15:28
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  • ASiegel
    Posts: 1098 from 2003/2/15
    From: Central Europe
    Well, Abiword development appears to have stagnated for a number of years now, which is something to consider when choosing projects to port, but more software is generally nice as long as it is stable.

    I really do not understand why the poster lists PIP as a mandatory dependency of Abiword, however. Based on a quick glance, this appears to be incorrect. Feel free to correct me.

    Also, you really do not need PIP to get a script working that helps to download YouTube videos, as claimed by the poster. PIP is a package management system for Python programs that simplifies installation and on-going updates. It is not an absolute necessity.

    Based on these inconsistencies, you have to forgive me for being a bit wary. If there is an early version running on MorphOS and the developer is looking for collaborators, why doesn't he just open a public code repository? Abiword is GPL so the code will have to be published anyway.
  • »18.10.18 - 16:13
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  • Caterpillar
    Caterpillar
    Posts: 37 from 2018/10/18
    Hello,
    1)
    I am that guy who is working at this port.
    I dont say PIP is necessisary for Abiword.
    I love to use Abiword and many Plugins are using python, also some render scripts are running in Python.
    Porting Abiword instaed of other Software like Libre Office has the reason of simplicity.
    It is realy complicated to get the open office / libre office engine running on morphos/mui.
    Also many of the integrated services like the plug'in installation and update service also like the integrated macro language are very extensive. To port all these things is not an Projekt to start at as team of 2 Persons for an Hobby.
    Also Libre Office is very resource consuming.
    The porting and the guarantee for a stable and performant execution are impossible for me alone and also for my co-developer. Abiword is much simpler in terms of its size and the amount of code to be adapted is less.
    Abiword is also better suited for use on older g4 processors> 800 mhz. At the same time, Abiword offers enough usability to make the effort possible.
    The porting of pip is not entirely disinterested as a full-time programmer, I have written some software synonymous in a commercial context I would like to run on MorphOS, including a messenger whose server is written in Python.

    2)
    PIP ist not needed general to run an script that is true. But it is needed for many Installations Script like the install scripts for youtube-dl.
    I do not want to port youtube-dl only for running on my system.
    My intention is that the hole install scriptlet it running.
    I am at work to rebuild the hole distribution.
    And the first step is to get python pip running also cython ist needed.
    The posting is textet in non technical english, so that people without an developer background can understand this.
    Python pip was also builded for the reason that is getting 3rd party Librarys to work manual is not realy an easy thing.

    I hope you know understand why we doing it :)

    Greetings from Germany
  • »18.10.18 - 16:56
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  • Caterpillar
    Caterpillar
    Posts: 37 from 2018/10/18
    But what you are right, of course, is that the text is a bit confusing. Since 2 different topics were packed together, we are sorry
  • »18.10.18 - 17:05
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  • Moderator
    Kronos
    Posts: 1816 from 2003/2/24
    Could be the news of the decade

    Or a lame prank
    ......

    No screenshots, unknown author (well compuserve-killer might know that) no backstory as how he ended starting such a big project for an alt-obscure OS dedicated to obsolete HW.

    .......

    Good news, we got nothing to loose here ;)


    Edith:

    And if true I can erase 1 item from the endless list of:

    "Projects that I thought about doing, but will never find the time for" ;)

    [ Edited by Kronos 18.10.2018 - 19:46 ]
    --------------------- May the 4th be with you ------------------
    Mother Russia dance of the Zar, don't you know how lucky you are
  • »18.10.18 - 17:45
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  • Caterpillar
    Caterpillar
    Posts: 37 from 2018/10/18
    i can tell you the Story the are 2 frustrated linux geeks who are worked on an projekt long time.
    And there is an Company who are running 4 amiga 4000 in the year 2017 as productive system.
    The 2 guys working for that company. The loved the amiga and worked on their one AROS distribution for that company.
    but there are frustrated of that dead amiga os child called aros.
    So they find morph os in march 2017 end they decide to buy 2 mac mini g4 with an morphos license on ebay.
    This guys love the stability and the perfomance of that system that they decide to port there software to morph os :) And now they are working on that projekt.

    One of that Person is now an German Technology Journalist working for an a big Technology Magazin :) Google is your friend :)
  • »18.10.18 - 17:54
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  • ASiegel
    Posts: 1098 from 2003/2/15
    From: Central Europe
    Quote:

    sojuniter wrote:
    I dont say PIP is necessisary for Abiword.

    In the shared screenshot, it literally says: "Also for the port of Abiword is PIP needed."

    This is what I was commenting on. PIP might be helpful but it is most likely not needed.

    Quote:

    I love to use Abiword and many Plugins are using python, also some render scripts are running in Python. Porting Abiword instaed of other Software like Libre Office has the reason of simplicity.

    Well, I am not advocating for a port of Libre Office (unless it could be done easily). That said, I think it is worth pointing out that you are comparing a word processor to a comprehensive office suite. If you would like to create a presentation or work on a spreadsheet, then Abiword is obviously not a substitute for an office suite such as Libre Office.

    Quote:

    It is realy complicated to get the open office / libre office engine running on morphos/mui. Also many of the integrated services like the plug'in installation and update service also like the integrated macro language are very extensive. To port all these things is not an Projekt to start at as team of 2 Persons for an Hobby. Also Libre Office is very resource consuming.

    When I tested it recently, it ran fairly well on MacOS PowerPC actually.
  • »18.10.18 - 18:04
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  • Moderator
    Kronos
    Posts: 1816 from 2003/2/24
    Quote:

    sojuniter wrote:

    One of that Person is now an German Technology Journalist working for an a big Technology Magazin :) Google is your friend :)


    Na, someone else is my friend who already did 50% of that google-search......

    MacMini? Not my 1st choice (well actually it was my 2nd choice back when a Mini was the best choice...) but if it works there it should work on almost everything else.

    Guess I will see pretty soon.
    --------------------- May the 4th be with you ------------------
    Mother Russia dance of the Zar, don't you know how lucky you are
  • »18.10.18 - 18:13
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    zukow
    Posts: 485 from 2005/2/9
    From: Poland
    00d.jpg


    Do you need any help with MUI/MorphOS development?

    [ Edited by zukow 18.10.2018 - 21:13 ]
  • »18.10.18 - 19:13
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  • Caterpillar
    Caterpillar
    Posts: 37 from 2018/10/18
    Yes we want to get help :)
    The main problem at this moment is the x11 wrapper lib.
    I compiled a binary but in this moment i am at debugging the hunk.
  • »19.10.18 - 15:44
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    amigadave
    Posts: 2515 from 2006/3/21
    From: Lake Arrowhead...
    Quote:

    sojuniter wrote:
    Yes we want to get help :)
    The main problem at this moment is the x11 wrapper lib.
    I compiled a binary but in this moment i am at debugging the hunk.



    Nor being a programmer of any experience, or worth (yet), I cannot offer any help, but hope that a few other experienced MorphOS users with programming skills will step up and offer you the help that you need to succeed at completing this project.

    I would like to welcome you and your programming partner to the MorphOS community, and ask that you not be discouraged by any skepticism by members here, or on other Amiga and/or MorphOS forum sites. Long time users have been disappointed so many times before, it is hard for many of us to trust the statements of new users/programmers to our tiny community, before we are actually shown some working code that is in progress.

    Again, welcome, and good luck with your project. Most Amiga and MorphOS users are very friendly, when you get to know them better, but there are always a few bad apples in every community, and our community has it's share as well (but fortunately, not many are members here at MorphZone).
    MorphOS - The best Next Gen Amiga choice.
  • »20.10.18 - 01:23
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  • vox
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    vox
    Posts: 419 from 2003/11/24
    From: Belgrade
    Quote:

    sojuniter wrote:
    i can tell you the Story the are 2 frustrated linux geeks who are worked on an projekt long time.


    Nice story.

    Very nice indeed. Even I dont prefer AbiWord under Linux/OS4.
    Improving AmigaWritter / Papyrous office would be great if possible,
    or porting Scribus / Apache Office or Open Office Writter https://www.openoffice.org/product/writer.html would be far more advanced and developed solution.

    However, everything is better to none.

    Looking forward to public beta on Aminet.
    ------------------------------------------
    x1000 user, ASAP Vampire Standalone user, future MOS user
  • »20.10.18 - 11:12
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10018 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    >> Porting Abiword instaed of other Software like Libre Office has the reason
    >> of simplicity. It is realy complicated to get the open office / libre office engine
    >> running on morphos/mui. [...] Also Libre Office is very resource consuming.

    > porting [...] Apache Office or Open Office Writter [...] would be far more
    > advanced and developed solution.

    Yes, but Apache OpenOffice is probably not significantly simpler to port or less resource consuming than LibreOffice.
  • »20.10.18 - 13:01
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  • Caterpillar
    Caterpillar
    Posts: 37 from 2018/10/18
    That is true Open Office is not significant simpler to port also is Libre Office as Clone with Improvements of Open Office not more Resource consuming. Open Office / Libre Office (For me both they are the same) is an gigantic piece of Software. There are many sub Projects under the Libre Office Projekt. It is an fact that Abiword is not same rosource consuming that Libre office is. And, Yes of course runs Libre Office with an 1,7 - 2,7 Ghz G5 Processor great but not every user of MorphOS is using such an Perfomant System like the Powermac G5. The sam460 or the Efika and also the users running an origin Amiga with PPC booster card or an Powermac g4 with less than 800 Mhz are needing and good word processing software and a calculator software like gnumeric. I would prefer is somebody is helping to Develop a new fully nativ MUI Word Processor for MorphOS only.

    I would like to make it clear that for Abiword alone, of course, no PIP is necessary. We want to use PIP in the installation scripts and for the X11 library.
    Generally I think it would be a good step to move Python forward on MorphOS.

    The first thought was similar to cygnixppc under Amiga OS to program a x11 Lib. This is basically finished and can get from any interested of me (note it is unstable).
    But I think and I was told that the unixic is rather undesirable.
    MUI is a fantastic toolkit and I think it should be my first choice for MophOS programs.

    So I would like to ask directly would anyone participate in the new development or further development of a writing program and a spreadsheet?
  • »20.10.18 - 16:13
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  • Caterpillar
    Caterpillar
    Posts: 37 from 2018/10/18
    My PowerMac4 died so i have to wait for my Powermac G5.
    I will be shipped in an week.

    See you soon.
  • »20.10.18 - 22:20
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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Posts: 145 from 2004/11/18
    Someone has done a software but it's to buggy on my machine, this soft is named Calimero. I have tried to work a bit with it and it can be a good wordprocessor, but it's very buggy so unstable on my Pbook. It's a shame because this soft has a huge potential.
  • »20.10.18 - 23:41
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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Posts: 145 from 2004/11/18
    Unix like approach can be a start like it was for owb. Someone has started a gtk-mui wrapper maybe it's the best way to port a such software.
  • »20.10.18 - 23:44
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10018 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > The sam460 or the Efika and also the users running an origin Amiga with
    > PPC booster card or an Powermac g4 with less than 800 Mhz

    Let's not forget about the Pegasos I and the Pegasos II G3 :-) And btw, MorphOS available for PowerUP cards ends at v1.4.5 from 2006.
  • »21.10.18 - 01:04
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10018 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Unix like approach [...] like it was for owb.

    Was it?
  • »21.10.18 - 01:16
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    NewSense
    Posts: 690 from 2012/11/10
    From: Manchester, UK...
    Folio by ASiegel, has my vote in the useability stakes as current wordprocessing software for MorphOS, though I believe future releases may be delayed due to a failure in ASiegel's SSD HDD that had the development code on it, though it would be great to hear that it's back on track for further development. :-)
    MacMini 1.5GHz,Model 10.2,64MB VRAM,250GB HDD,1GB RAM,Airport, Bluetooth,A1016 Keyboard,T-RB22 Mouse,DVD-RW-DL+CD-RW,Iomega MiniMax,Belkin 6 port 3 x Firewire/3 x USB2,MorphOS 3.11,Mac OSX 10.4/10.5,A1138+A1139 PwrBk MOS v3.11,Model 5,8/5,9
  • »21.10.18 - 05:03
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  • Cocoon
    Cocoon
    Georg
    Posts: 48 from 2004/4/7
    Quote:

    sojuniter wrote:
    The first thought was similar to cygnixppc under Amiga OS to program a x11 Lib. This is basically finished and can get from any interested of me (note it is unstable).


    Also the source code? Would be interesting to look at.

    Btw, MOS (and Amiga) people for (IMO) no real good reason are (or used to be) very allergic to UI or GUI libraries from other systems like Unix. For years it seemed to be the absolute horror for them to have something like a webbrowser which does not use the system (MUI or Intuition) gadgets for things like string gadgets or prop gadgets or cycle gadgets in web view ...
  • »21.10.18 - 07:11
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  • Moderator
    Kronos
    Posts: 1816 from 2003/2/24
    @Georg

    Using alien stuff in a webview might be acceptable, but IMO one of the most annoying things bout AmigaOS (1.x to 4.1) is the complete inconsistence of the GUI. Also true for Linux.

    So if I wanted to fiddle with GTK or QT GUI elements I'd just use a Linux box.

    It is offcource 100% o.k. to build such an app as a stop gap/proof of concept only to later start replacing QT/GTK with a proper GUI.

    AFAIR (as I've mentioned AbiWord has been on my list of projects I'll never find time for) that part should be pretty much straight forward as the GUI parts are fairly seperated from the core functionality.
    --------------------- May the 4th be with you ------------------
    Mother Russia dance of the Zar, don't you know how lucky you are
  • »21.10.18 - 08:15
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  • Moderator
    Kronos
    Posts: 1816 from 2003/2/24
    Quote:

    acepeg wrote:
    Someone has started a gtk-mui wrapper maybe it's the best way to port a such software.


    I did waste some time on that a decade ago, and once you start porting non-trivial code you have to support an endless rat's tail of obscure classes that then again rely a bunch a libraies that just won't play well in the Amiga/MorphOS context.

    It is just that alot of these GUI elements expose APIs that work totally different to what their MUI counterpart would offer, expect theri internal data to be handled in a specific way and follow layout rules that just aren't consistent with MUI.

    With AbiWord it should be possible to just replace whole toolboxes/requesters/windows with MUI counterparts that just take and send the same data on a higher level.

    Might/should also be true for other big GTK apps (Gimp and GNUmeric come to mind).
    --------------------- May the 4th be with you ------------------
    Mother Russia dance of the Zar, don't you know how lucky you are
  • »21.10.18 - 08:23
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  • ASiegel
    Posts: 1098 from 2003/2/15
    From: Central Europe
    Quote:

    Georg wrote:
    Btw, MOS (and Amiga) people for (IMO) no real good reason are (or used to be) very allergic to UI or GUI libraries from other systems like Unix. For years it seemed to be the absolute horror for them to have something like a webbrowser which does not use the system (MUI or Intuition) gadgets for things like string gadgets or prop gadgets or cycle gadgets in web view ...

    I think that is an unfair categorization. Both Microsoft and Apple made sure their bundled web browsers featured UI gadgets that closely resembled the look of each platform's native UI kits. I fail to see what could possibly be wrong about at least seeking to provide a consistent user experience in terms of look and behaviour.

    In fact, given the flexibility of today's browser engines, it is actually perfectly possible to build a MUI-Webkit bridge that brings personalized MUI settings and gadgets to web views and enables web apps that are close to indistinguishable from native applications. It just needs one hard to find capable developer who is willing to spend a bit of time on it.

    The bigger and more pervasive concern appears to be that anything using web technologies is bloated and inefficient by default, thus does not meet the high efficiency and technological purity standards for Commodore A* software.
  • »21.10.18 - 08:24
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10018 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > For years it seemed to be the absolute horror for [MOS (and Amiga) people] to have [...]
    > a webbrowser which does not use the system (MUI or Intuition) gadgets [...] in web view

    This doesn't match my observation. After development of Sputnik ceased, which used system gadgets for web view, the generality of MorphOS users had no problem accepting the non-system web view gadgets in OWB as far as I remember.
  • »21.10.18 - 13:06
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