MorphOS x86 I want this badly
  • Caterpillar
    Caterpillar
    MorphOSUser
    Posts: 39 from 2012/5/2
    Hey,

    Can I say that I am heavily anxious to see an x86 MorphOS :D One huge advantage of having an x86 MorphOS is the ability to finally port WINE into MorphOS and this will open huge libraries of games and applications from Windows right into MorphOS which is superb! MorphOS would be truly BETTER than Linux in terms of an alternative operating system. Running WINE in MorphOS would be even easier and much funner than running it in Linux and best part of it all...it could be a layer in the next release of MorphOS that you can treat running any windows applications or games as if it is in Windows directly itself. Just double click it and you will not even see or feel WINE is doing the works in the back-end it will look like it is a native MorphOS application and you can even have customized icons.info as if it is ported to MorphOS directly!
  • »13.09.18 - 03:13
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  • vox
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    vox
    Posts: 436 from 2003/11/25
    From: Belgrade
    Quote:

    MorphOSUser wrote:
    WINE is doing the works in the back-end it will look like it is a native MorphOS application and you can even have customized icons.info as if it is ported to MorphOS directly!



    WINE is NOT perfect.

    WINE is a bit Interlinked with Linux and Win DLLs and not an easy thing to port.

    I would rather have Libre Office for MOS then Wine.

    x86 MOS will NOT run on everything.

    Have all these in mind, enthusiasm is understandable.
    ------------------------------------------
    x1000 user, ASAP Vampire Standalone user, future MOS user
    YT: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdHl_msNWHEVPf229h_gijQ
  • »13.09.18 - 05:11
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    connor
    Posts: 502 from 2007/7/29
    Check out this one to see why even a port to "x86" would not solve this easily: https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=11537&forum=12#124232
    So what you in fact need is MINE, not WINE. MINE as: MorphOS is not Windows. Because if you just want to port WINE then you also need to have Unix/Linux functionality in MorphOS. This will bloat up MorphOS. I don't want that.

    And better don't wait for MorphOS x86. x86 was replaced by AMD64, x64.
  • »13.09.18 - 09:57
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10613 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > what you in fact need is MINE, not WINE. MINE as: MorphOS is not Windows.

    Actually, that would be MINW ;-)
  • »13.09.18 - 10:29
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Tom01
    Posts: 162 from 2009/9/20
    Wine cannot run many Apps.
    Wine on macOS for Example, is not very useful.
    The only Game running on macOS-Wine I have found so far, is Trackmania Nations Forever.
  • »13.09.18 - 16:23
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    redrumloa
    Posts: 1352 from 2003/4/13
    Most of us want MorphOS x86-64 badly. I don't care about a Wine type solution at all. If it happened, great, but not something I need. If we need Windows that bad on the same box, we can dual boot.
  • »13.09.18 - 17:47
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    KennyR
    Posts: 674 from 2003/3/4
    From: #AmigaZeux, Gu...
    WINE just wraps to Linux functions. The functionality has to be there in the underlying OS, which it isn't and never will be on MorphOS or any Amiga-like OS.

    The clue's in the name.

    Wine
    Is
    Not an
    Emulator
  • »13.09.18 - 20:48
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    polluks
    Posts: 443 from 2007/10/23
    From: Gelsenkirchen,...
    WINE is nonsense.
    Use Linux and a MorphOS VM :-)
    Pegasos II G4: MorphOS 3.9, Zalman M220W · iMac G5 12,1
    Power Mac G3: OSX 10.3 · PowerBook 5,8: OSX 10.5, MorphOS 3.12
  • »15.09.18 - 22:33
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Posts: 152 from 2004/11/18
    Hmm what a good idea, for start , using
  • »16.09.18 - 20:51
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Posts: 152 from 2004/11/18
    Hmm what a good idea, for start , using a morphos wm inside of a minimal linux system with xen or other vitualisation, so we need only one driver for soundcard , one driver for graphic cards, a bit like in aros hosted....and with a small effort we can use linux apps inside morphos, so devs can take the more time they have to develop native and fantastic software.
    It can be amasing in fact :-)
  • »16.09.18 - 20:56
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  • Moderator
    Kronos
    Posts: 1919 from 2003/2/24
    Morphitlon?

    Sounds cools, but I doubt thats they way the team wants to go, well maybe if the *nix underpinnings were as hidden and still integrated as they are with OSX.

    I won't hold my breath, heck I want even hold my f#### ;)
    --------------------- May the 4th be with you ------------------
    Mother Russia dance of the Zar, don't you know how lucky you are
  • »16.09.18 - 21:07
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2601 from 2003/2/24
    I’ll answer myself, as I actually read what chainq wrote now:

    “Do not draw conclusions from the boot speed. It is a very early version, and it is throttled by debug logging in the background.”

    And indeed:

    “natively on AMD64”

    Still looking forward to more info though. Like is it true 64-bit? SMP?
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »12.10.19 - 16:04
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Debaser
    Posts: 155 from 2005/7/12
    From: Syracuse, NY, USA
    Truly incredible and awesome! I can't wait to hear more about it as it progresses.
  • »12.10.19 - 16:22
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    eliot
    Posts: 496 from 2004/4/15
    Wow, Mos on amd64 with integrated gpu would be a real game changer.
    Having an up2date Webkit with Java script Jit and the system is usable again for daily business.
    Good to see that the Mos devs going to amd64 instead of arm.

    [ Edited by eliot 12.10.2019 - 16:56 ]
    regards
    eliot
  • »12.10.19 - 16:26
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Posts: 175 from 2015/8/23
    If it has memory protection, unix compatybility and good drivers, it may be usable.
    Otherwise it will end in vb.
  • »12.10.19 - 16:37
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    eliot
    Posts: 496 from 2004/4/15
    Quote:

    ppcamiga1 wrote:
    If it has memory protection, unix compatybility and good drivers, it may be usable.
    Otherwise it will end in vb.



    Well the kernel has already memory protection. Within the ABox it won’t be possible.
    There needs to be a new box and new api.
    ixemul is already there, but better posix support would make conversions of
    existing software more easy.

    [ Edited by eliot 12.10.2019 - 17:30 ]
    regards
    eliot
  • »12.10.19 - 16:45
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  • Leo
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Leo
    Posts: 416 from 2003/8/18
    Also:

    Quote:


    @cact00s:
    Nice! Again well done! What about compatibility with old MC68k software ? I guess it will be done throughout UAE ?

    @chainq:
    No. It runs the same 68k and PowerPC binaries as the current public MorphOS. Yes, native software is also possible, but I cannot speak regarding any extra feature set.

    Nothing hurts a project more than developers not taking the time to let their community know what is going on.
  • »12.10.19 - 16:47
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  • MorphOS Developer
    bigfoot
    Posts: 325 from 2003/4/11
    Just quickly popping in to mention a few things...

    ... Boot-up speed is not indicative of general performance.

    It had up till now been running on some older AMD64 hardware at home that I could neither bring along nor repurchase, so I bought this brand new system and still needed to port the existing MorphOS-on-AMD64 to this newer hardware. I literally only finished the port to this specific hardware enough to boot to Ambient this morning while at the show, and the whole boot-up process is full of debug code and debug output that makes booting very slow.

    If you discount the relatively slow AMD64 BIOS startup, and the relatively slow network booting that I'm doing, then once the debug code and debug output is removed, the actual MorphOS bootup process is as fast as you'd expect it to be.

    ... This is not a finished product.

    It's more a demo of some components of a future MorphOS NG system, in particular the new kernel that will power it as well as the PowerPC emulation that will ensure compatibility with existing software. So for now it's just a fun demo, please don't interpret it as more than that.

    Let me just make this clear: This is basically a demo that's made up of components that are being developed with the goal of eventually reaching MorphOS NG. Not everything is there yet, but with what's there, it was possible to build this demo.

    ... AMD64 is a CPU architecture, not a specific CPU

    Just because this seems to cause confusion from time to time. AMD64 is the name of the 64 bit CPU architecture commonly used in PCs. GNU calls the same CPU architecture "x86_64" and Microsoft calls it "x64". Although this hardware is indeed AMD hardware, it's not necessarily tied to AMD.

    ... What is "native"? :D

    The kernel that powers this system is a new kernel written by yours truly. In the demo system on display here, it is (of course) running as 100% native AMD64 code and, yes, in 64 bit mode. The kernel also runs on both PPC32 and PPC64, and again as native 64 bit code on the latter.

    The current demo system - and may I remind you that this is just a demo - runs a mixture of native AMD64 code and existing PowerPC code.
    I rarely log in to MorphZone which means that I often miss private messages sent on here. If you wish to contact me, please email me at [username]@asgaard.morphos-team.net, where [username] is my username here on MorphZone.
  • »12.10.19 - 17:21
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2601 from 2003/2/24
    @Leo

    That’s strange. It would mean that not only has a AMD64 version of 68k Trance been developed, but also a version translating PPC binaries. I don’t believe that really. Seems like a lot of work, and for questionable gains. It doesn’t seem plausible to try retaining binary compatibility with a 32-bit big endian platform on 64-bit little endian hardware. Besides, it was said back when AMD64 was first announced in 2011 already that work on 64-bit code would commence, and someone of the developers (bigfoot?) said here on Morphzone that it (a “MorphOS 4.0” or what it will be called) wouldn’t even be source code compatible (although requirements of modifications to code would be kept to a minimum). A migration to AMD64 would be a great opportunity to move on from the 31-bit A-box binary compatibility. Like AROS.

    I think there is some confusion here. Maybe it has something to do with it actually being MorphOS 3.12 (version number seen in the video) compiled for AMD64, and not actually the new “NG” version?
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »12.10.19 - 17:31
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  • ASiegel
    Posts: 1154 from 2003/2/15
    From: Central Europe
    @takemehomegrandma

    Please read the comment posted right before yours :)
  • »12.10.19 - 17:36
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10613 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > PowerPC emulation [...] will ensure compatibility with existing software. [...] The current
    > demo system [...] runs a mixture of native AMD64 code and existing PowerPC code.

    Very interesting. How is the endianness difference handled?
  • »12.10.19 - 17:55
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2601 from 2003/2/24
    @bigfoot

    Thanks for the info, and thanks for doing the demo as well! Impressive! :-)


    Quote:

    bigfoot wrote:

    So for now it's just a fun demo, please don't interpret it as more than that.


    Got it! :-)


    Quote:

    This is basically a demo that's made up of components that are being developed with the goal of eventually reaching MorphOS NG.


    It would be interesting to hear about what this will be? The ambitions and goals, broadly speaking at least. Please? ;-)


    Quote:

    The kernel that powers this system is a new kernel written by yours truly. In the demo system on display here, it is (of course) running as 100% native AMD64 code and, yes, in 64 bit mode. The kernel also runs on both PPC32 and PPC64, and again as native 64 bit code on the latter.

    The current demo system - and may I remind you that this is just a demo - runs a mixture of native AMD64 code and existing PowerPC code.


    So the Amiga binary compatibility will remain? Will this mean that the whole MorphOS NG will have a 31-bit addressing limitation, single core, etc? Or that you are actually developing new stuff outside the “A-box”? If so, how will new and old stuff work together? Like applications, drivers and other resources on either sides of the box wall, how will they interact?
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »12.10.19 - 18:06
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  • Cocoon
    Cocoon
    Georg
    Posts: 56 from 2004/4/7
    Well it obviously will be similar as multiple running instances of AROS hosted. With "outside" compositor of each of the instances' windows/screen bitmaps to make it look like it is one single "thing". This way endianess or 32 or 64 bitness of the single instances can be mixed however you like.
  • »12.10.19 - 18:30
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