Talos II, POWER9, Linux
  • Caterpillar
    Caterpillar
    xilinder
    Posts: 30 from 2018/2/1
    From: USA
    My order is in. I do not expect delivery for quite some time. :(

    1 Basic Talos™ II Bundle (Dual CPU) 4 core
    2 ├ 16GB DDR4 ECC Registered RAM (2x 8GB)
    1 ├ LSI 9300-8i 8-port Internal SAS 3.0 HBA
    1 └ Integrated Microsemi SAS Controller (Proprietary)
    1 Hex Driver for POWER9 HSF

    I already have some kit that may work.

    Gigabyte ATI 4650 Graphics card
    Power Color HD6850 Graphics card
    Creative Sound Blaster Audigy FX SB1570 PCIe 5.1 Sound Card
    SilverStone 850W SST-ST85F-GS Power supply
    Several SATA Drives
    Possible case. An older Antec EATX (might not be wide enough for the CPU coolers)
    DVD drives, Keyboards & Mice, etc.

    The plan at this time is to first get the Talos II into a case and do what is required to boot using the onboard Aspeed graphics for burn-in and Linux install.

    The RAM will be installed 16GB per 4 core CPU.

    I would like to have a NVMe storage device, but that will have to wait. Same for a more recent graphics card.
  • »20.05.18 - 21:17
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4629 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    The sound card should work.
    Raptor recommends either an Radeon HD5850 or an HD7950, but an HD6850 might work.

    Why two SAS controllers, and does either utilize a card slot (which would eliminate the possiblity of using the sound card).

    And I won't question the idea of using an SAS controller with SATA drives, as I've done it.

    I envy you, but I'm joining you ASAP.

    Edit - Maybe not ASAP. I keep moving back and forth on this.

    If, as a group, we were committed to continuing to support Power with the adoption Power 9, it would be an easier sell.

    But, focusing solely on Power 9 wouldn't make sense.
    No low power options, no portable/laptop solutions.

    We have PowerBooks now, and if it reaches production, the possibility of supporting the T2080 laptop.

    But an X64 shift does make sense.

    [ Edited by Jim 31.05.2018 - 13:10 ]
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »21.05.18 - 16:52
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  • Caterpillar
    Caterpillar
    xilinder
    Posts: 30 from 2018/2/1
    From: USA
    If the HD6850 does not work then I'll purchase something else, but first do my best to make it work.

    The on-board SAS is on CPU0 and I just wish to play around having one on CPU1.

    Dual CPUs. Sound card not a problem. HDMI sound might even work.

    I have read (somewhere) there is a push to get two video cards up and running in Linux. Not that I would have any use for it but that would not stop me from playing around with it. :)

    Hm, I'll probably have to get some higher amp circuit breakers for the house.
  • »21.05.18 - 17:30
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4629 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    xilinder wrote:
    If the HD6850 does not work then I'll purchase something else, but first do my best to make it work.

    The on-board SAS is on CPU0 and I just wish to play around having one on CPU1.

    Dual CPUs. Sound card not a problem. HDMI sound might even work.

    I have read (somewhere) there is a push to get two video cards up and running in Linux. Not that I would have any use for it but that would not stop me from playing around with it. :)

    Hm, I'll probably have to get some higher amp circuit breakers for the house.


    Oh,I don't know, I ran my EATX dual Xeon system on one 20 amp circuit, then again it ran fine with only a 650 watt psu.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »21.05.18 - 20:27
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  • Caterpillar
    Caterpillar
    xilinder
    Posts: 30 from 2018/2/1
    From: USA
    Some lite Talos2 reading. RaptorCS

    Too bad Amiga(ish) machines don't have this. As if somebody would go into competition. Sheesh|
  • »31.05.18 - 15:00
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  • Moderator
    Kronos
    Posts: 1766 from 2003/2/24
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:
    with only a 650 watt psu.



    ONLY ????

    F###ing insane.

    Unless I plan to run some render farm or suchlike I'd never touch a system needing that kinda power.

    Heck if MorphOS ever goes "NG" I'll make sure my system ends up fanless (read <50W).

    End rant, now back to your regular scheduled programing.
    --------------------- May the 4th be with you ------------------
    Mother Russia dance of the Zar, don't you know how lucky you are
  • »31.05.18 - 15:40
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  • ASiegel
    Posts: 1042 from 2003/2/15
    From: Central Europe
    Quote:

    Kronos wrote:
    Heck if MorphOS ever goes "NG" I'll make sure my system ends up fanless (read <50W).

    Just a quick note for anybody vaguely interested in fanless computers, you can have a power consumption that is quite a bit higher than 50W and still operate without fans safely.

    For keeping one's power consumption in check, aiming for a sub-50W system may still be worthwhile, of course.
  • »31.05.18 - 16:01
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9839 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Some lite Talos2 reading. RaptorCS

    Do you mean the Talos II User's Guide? The other documents are not specific to Talos II as far as I can see.

    > Amiga(ish) machines don't have this.

    Of course they do have user's guides. Which one are you looking for in particular?
    (And of course there's also extensive documentation on the processors used on "Amiga(ish) machines".)
  • »31.05.18 - 16:05
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  • Moderator
    Kronos
    Posts: 1766 from 2003/2/24
    @ASiegel

    My Peg2 would most likely survive without the single slow&small case fan it has, but I'm just to chicken to try (and there are are other reasone why it isn't my main MorphOS-system).

    All in all it can be pushed >50W if I'd play some 3D game or so.
    --------------------- May the 4th be with you ------------------
    Mother Russia dance of the Zar, don't you know how lucky you are
  • »31.05.18 - 16:09
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Jim
    Posts: 4629 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    Kronos wrote:
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:
    with only a 650 watt psu.



    ONLY ????

    F###ing insane.

    Unless I plan to run some render farm or suchlike I'd never touch a system needing that kinda power...


    Hey, and I was only running one video card, but I did have two Xeon cpus.
    And it would still be capable of more threads than a standard desktop Ryzen.


    Quote:

    Kronos wrote:
    @ASiegel

    My Peg2 would most likely survive without the single slow&small case fan it has, but I'm just to chicken to try (and there are are other reasone why it isn't my main MorphOS-system).

    All in all it can be pushed >50W if I'd play some 3D game or so.


    What processor is installed in your Peg2?
    And if you think about it too hard, you could claim the the PowerMac G4's cpu was"fanless" since the fan that blows across the cpu heatsink isn't attached directly to it and it basically a case fan.

    At least it doesn't do anything blatantly stupid like some of the old BTX case designs where outside air is pulled across the cpu into the case.

    I have a bad habit of leaving the cases I use open, so I guess fanless operation with the right choice components is a possibility.

    But Power 9 is the wrong ISA to consider this for. There are some NXP PPCs that might work fanless.

    But X64 would be the most practical place (other than ARM) to look for this option.
    My first choice would be something Ryzen based and I haven't seen any of the laptop variants used in a desktop board. That makes me think you'd be back in Intel's hands.
    They do have some reasonable competent low wattage cpus.

    [ Edited by Jim 31.05.2018 - 13:18 ]
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »31.05.18 - 18:02
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  • Moderator
    Kronos
    Posts: 1766 from 2003/2/24
    1GHz G4
    Installed an oversized heatpipe based GFX-Card cooler with 1 barely running 100mm fan sucking air out of the case right next to it's fins.

    PSU and Radeon9250 passively cooled.
    --------------------- May the 4th be with you ------------------
    Mother Russia dance of the Zar, don't you know how lucky you are
  • »31.05.18 - 18:21
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Jim
    Posts: 4629 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    Kronos wrote:
    1GHz G4
    Installed an oversized heatpipe based GFX-Card cooler with 1 barely running 100mm fan sucking air out of the case right next to it's fins.

    PSU and Radeon9250 passively cooled.


    That is a good trick.
    You know there are some universally keyed Radeon 9800 cards that could be passively cooled, but with that move you lose W3D support.

    I'm fired up over the fanless concept.
    Thanks Andre.

    Looking at Intel cpus, there are some Coffee Lake CPUs that operate at 35 watts.
    That would bring thermal loads down to the G4 level (but there are lower watt 74XX processors).

    Obviously there are some lower watt X64 options, but not with the kind of CPU processing power Coffee Lake offers.

    So, a powerful fanless X64 system IS a possibility.

    And the six core 8700T would provide for 12 threads at 2.4 GHz.
    So not only could we do low power X64 systems, but the have the potential to really outperform the Quad G5 at the same time (especially if SMP is implemted).

    Noisy to silent, and low power draw.

    Interesting.

    Edit - the Ryzen R3 2200 and 2400 apparently idle at 27 watts, but peak as high as 101 and 114 watts respectively when pushed hard, so Ryzen desktop parts are definitely out of contention.

    [ Edited by Jim 31.05.2018 - 14:50 ]
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »31.05.18 - 19:36
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    ernsteiswuerfel
    Posts: 210 from 2015/6/18
    From: Funeralopolis
    Quote:

    Kronos schrieb:
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:
    with only a 650 watt psu.

    ONLY ????

    F###ing insane.

    Unless I plan to run some render farm or suchlike I'd never touch a system needing that kinda power.

    Well, it's not that the T2 will ever consume that much power, even with 2 x 18 core CPUs. It is because the current T2 mainboards need 2x 8-Pin EPS12V power connectors - which are only found on the bigger specced PSUs.

    In case they sell enough of the current units they are planning an ATX-based mainboard (w. only one CPU socket), which I guess would only need one 8-Pin 8-Pin EPS12V power connector. However even the "low end" 4-core/16-threads POWER9 got a TDP of 90 watts. Don't know how much they consume idle.
    PMac G5 11,2. PMac G5 7,3. PBook G4 5,8. PBook G4 5,6. [MorphOS 3.10 / Gentoo Linux] A1200. ACA-1233/55, Indivision AGA Mk2, 4 GiB CF. [Amiga OS 3.9]
  • »31.05.18 - 20:39
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  • Caterpillar
    Caterpillar
    xilinder
    Posts: 30 from 2018/2/1
    From: USA
    I wonder how much crap you would have to have running at the same time to drive one cpu to 90W on a desktop system?

    Will be fun to find out.
  • »31.05.18 - 21:00
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4629 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    ernsteiswuerfel wrote:
    Quote:

    Kronos schrieb:
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:
    with only a 650 watt psu.

    ONLY ????

    F###ing insane.

    Unless I plan to run some render farm or suchlike I'd never touch a system needing that kinda power.

    Well, it's not that the T2 will ever consume that much power, even with 2 x 18 core CPUs. It is because the current T2 mainboards need 2x 8-Pin EPS12V power connectors - which are only found on the bigger specced PSUs.

    In case they sell enough of the current units they are planning an ATX-based mainboard (w. only one CPU socket), which I guess would only need one 8-Pin 8-Pin EPS12V power connector. However even the "low end" 4-core/16-threads POWER9 got a TDP of 90 watts. Don't know how much they consume idle.


    Yes, but 90 watts is the ragged edge of what can be cooled fanless, and even then it requires a stupid sized heatsink.

    Oh, and I received an answer to an inquiry about about the smaller board from Raptor.
    They wouldn't confirm an ATX size, only saying that it would be "smaller" than the Talos II boards.
    That could be ATX, MATX, who knows?

    Still, I like that Power 9 is bi-endian and has a hypervisor.
    It should allow combining big and little endian sessions, something that is beyond X64.

    Oh, and not to take a "dump" on anyone's dreams, but the feedback I'm getting is that emulation of the PPC on an X64 by QEMU is actually pretty poor.
    So running PPC MorphOS application on an X64 platform doesn't look practical.
    Recompilation will probably be the only practical recourse.

    We have already seen emulation of X64 on Power 9 systems and it looks fairly competent.
    And it should allow KVM based concurrent big endian PPC sessions to run alongside little endian sessions including those that emulate X64.

    One is relatively cheap, X64. The other is relatively expensive, Power 9.
    There are pros and cons to each.
    But the developers have already indicated their intentions.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »31.05.18 - 21:02
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9839 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Power 9 is the wrong ISA to consider this for.

    First and foremost, it's the wrong microarchitecture for it. A CPU implementing Power ISA v3.0 and not requiring a fan might be possible.
  • »31.05.18 - 22:47
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    ernsteiswuerfel
    Posts: 210 from 2015/6/18
    From: Funeralopolis
    Quote:

    xilinder schrieb:
    I wonder how much crap you would have to have running at the same time to drive one cpu to 90W on a desktop system?

    Will be fun to find out.

    You could try this. (link) :-D
    PMac G5 11,2. PMac G5 7,3. PBook G4 5,8. PBook G4 5,6. [MorphOS 3.10 / Gentoo Linux] A1200. ACA-1233/55, Indivision AGA Mk2, 4 GiB CF. [Amiga OS 3.9]
  • »31.05.18 - 23:18
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Jim
    Posts: 4629 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    >> Power 9 is the wrong ISA to consider this for.

    >First and foremost, it's the wrong microarchitecture for it. A CPU implementing Power ISA v3.0 and not requiring a fan might be possible.


    I missed that. Hmm, Power 9 with "Optimized Frequency – Manage energy between threads and cores", eh?
    That would make more sense,that or a fall back to something with a lower power draw from NXP's e5500 or e6500 cored products.

    And I wouldn't even attempt to passively cooling anything above 65 watts.

    And then there are the video card limitations.

    I've seen a passively cooled Radeon HD 6750, but I can't locate one for sale.
    I've also seen some passively cooled FirePro cards.
    And newer cards? Well, there is a passively cooled RX 460.

    The first card mentioned could be supported now.
    The second option would depend on which gpu the card used.
    And the last would require a new driver.

    But for all of my preference for a Power 9 platform, this does appear easier to do with X64 hardware.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »31.05.18 - 23:28
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  • Caterpillar
    Caterpillar
    xilinder
    Posts: 30 from 2018/2/1
    From: USA
    Overclock to 5GHz? CLICK!

    I won't be going there any time soon, but love the info.

    Have also been doing some reading on OpenCAPI. Perhaps this would be a better route for splitting up a x8 PCIe slot. More investigation needed.
  • »04.06.18 - 14:20
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9839 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > OpenCAPI

    The Sforza module (see comment #68 in that other thread) as used on the Talos II doesn't have OpenCAPI (CAPI 3), just CAPI 2.

    > Perhaps this would be a better route for splitting up a x8 PCIe slot.

    From the 2nd link in comment #140 in that other thread (emphasis mine):
    "The POWER9 has three PCIe controllers on each chip, and the one that can trifurcate is already being used to drive the on-board peripherals. The other one that can bifurcate drives the x8 slot and another on-board peripheral, leaving only the last CAPI-capable controller that can only do x16 by hardware design."
  • »04.06.18 - 14:57
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  • Caterpillar
    Caterpillar
    xilinder
    Posts: 30 from 2018/2/1
    From: USA
    So much for that idea.

    Glad I ordered the dual cpu board. More to mess around with.
  • »04.06.18 - 19:40
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