Peg2 died
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9962 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > All card before the (ie the X1950Pro or X1600) require an Apple rom in order to boot.

    As I said in comment #31, the compatible non-PPC AGP cards should start at X1300 (and also include X1550 and X1900).
  • »11.02.18 - 00:43
    Profile
  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4695 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Maybe, however I wouldn't recommend the X1300 and the X1550 is also pretty weak, but they are both available in AGP variants.
    Considering the crippling effect of the PCIe to AGP bridge, even the X1950Pro doesn't come off that good.
    The 3850 or 4650 might have enough GPU power to compensate for the slow transfer rates...maybe.

    In any case, right now I stick by my recommendation of the three cards I mentioned.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »11.02.18 - 03:58
    Profile
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9962 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > The 3850 or 4650 might have enough GPU power to compensate for the slow transfer rates

    ...or the HD4670 :-) Problem is that a faster GPU won‘t bring any advantage in use cases where data isn‘t coming in fast enough to properly utilize the GPU, so I don‘t think GPU speed can compensate for slow transfer rates (whereas more VRAM can, btw).
  • »11.02.18 - 11:08
    Profile
  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4695 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > The 3850 or 4650 might have enough GPU power to compensate for the slow transfer rates

    ...or the HD4670 :-) Problem is that a faster GPU won‘t bring any advantage in use cases where data isn‘t coming in fast enough to properly utilize the GPU, so I don‘t think GPU speed can compensate for slow transfer rates (whereas more VRAM can, btw).


    It seems to help in OS4 applications where PCIe cards are used in PCIe to PCI adapters.
    And the difference between an X1300 and an HD4670 is pretty significant.

    Also, I'm not completely negative about the X1300. In PCIe applications it's acceptable. From what I understand, the SAM460 port was initially created using one.

    Of course, what we really need is an affordable PCIe based system that can use higher end gpus without the need of a bridge chip.

    [ Edited by Jim 13.02.2018 - 06:01 ]
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »11.02.18 - 14:37
    Profile
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    koszer
    Posts: 832 from 2004/2/8
    From: Poland
    I've decided to cut all the speculations and acquired a vanilla PC version of Radeon X1900 AGP. I'm going to test it out and see:

    a. if it runs and is properly initialized by MorphOS
    b. how fast it goes and if it's worse or superior than the X850XT I have ATM.

    Stay tuned!
  • »13.02.18 - 11:12
    Profile
  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4695 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    koszer wrote:
    I've decided to cut all the speculations and acquired a vanilla PC version of Radeon X1900 AGP. I'm going to test it out and see:

    a. if it runs and is properly initialized by MorphOS
    b. how fast it goes and if it's worse or superior than the X850XT I have ATM.

    Stay tuned!


    a.Shouldn't be a problem, if you have trouble getting it to initialize contact Bigfoot. Usually it's an ID issue.
    b. From what Mark has mentioned, these cards work at a bus rate similar to a standard PCI card, so that could really eat into it's performance.

    Sounds interesting, give us a comparison.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »13.02.18 - 13:29
    Profile
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    koszer
    Posts: 832 from 2004/2/8
    From: Poland
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:

    Sounds interesting, give us a comparison.


    As soon as I find that bloody Molex to 6-pin cable I had somewhere here :)
  • »14.02.18 - 06:58
    Profile
  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4695 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    koszer wrote:
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:

    Sounds interesting, give us a comparison.


    As soon as I find that bloody Molex to 6-pin cable I had somewhere here :)




    Oh yes, I forgot that the AGP models don't provide a connector for auxillary power (something the 11,2 PowerMacs have).
    And you have to split it off the DVD drive molex and route it to the video card.
    Both Mark and Frank have mentioned in the past what a PITA that is.
    It was easier for me when I first used a FireGL X3 in a G4 since there are plenty of molex power connectors and the drives are not as separated.

    I've often thought I'd like to try an R500 based card in a G4, but I think I will wait to see if AGP variants of the R600 or R700 are supported.

    If we don't eventually receive 11,2 support, once I buy an X5000, I'm probably only retain my G4 hardware.

    [ Edited by Jim 14.02.2018 - 05:41 ]
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »14.02.18 - 11:25
    Profile
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    koszer
    Posts: 832 from 2004/2/8
    From: Poland
    Wall, chaps - two news. The good one and the bad one.
    The good one is - nothing blew up when I've connected all the bits and pieces together.
    The bad one is - it doesn't work. The computer boots up and nothing - only a blank screen on the monitor. It doesn't matter which DVI port I plug it in - it stays black.

    Moreover, after a while the system fans start going crazy (the 'wind tunnel mode') which is quite strange. Nevertheless - the X1950 Pro AGP version doesn't work with current MorphOS. At least here.
  • »14.02.18 - 17:25
    Profile
  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4695 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    koszer wrote:
    Wall, chaps - two news. The good one and the bad one.
    The good one is - nothing blew up when I've connected all the bits and pieces together.
    The bad one is - it doesn't work. The computer boots up and nothing - only a blank screen on the monitor. It doesn't matter which DVI port I plug it in - it stays black.

    Moreover, after a while the system fans start going crazy (the 'wind tunnel mode') which is quite strange. Nevertheless - the X1950 Pro AGP version doesn't work with current MorphOS. At least here.


    It should, as that is exactly the configuration I shipped Mark so that he could work on the R500 drivers. However, since it could be a different brand it may not use the same device ID.
    You ought to contact Bigfoot and hash this out, it should be readily solvable with just a slight modification to the driver.
    But you'll probably have to install the card in a PC to get the info he will need.

    And the black screen is normal until MorphOS boots, as the G5's firmware does not recognize the card.

    That's typical of any MorphOS system with a card that relies on Atom BIOS to function.

    It won't be a issue with the X5000, but if we were to receive PowerMac 11,2 support using any card above the R500s (or any PC cards for that matter) would produce this result.

    [ Edited by Jim 14.02.2018 - 13:30 ]
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »14.02.18 - 18:10
    Profile
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    koszer
    Posts: 832 from 2004/2/8
    From: Poland
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:
    It should, as that is exactly the configuration I shipped Mark so that he could work on the R500 drivers. However, since it could be a different brand it may not use the same device ID.
    You ought to contact Bigfoot and hash this out, it should be readily solvable with just a slight modification to the driver.
    But you'll probably have to install the card in a PC to get the info he will need.


    Well, I've dropped him an e-mail just yesterday. Let's see if he could help. In the meantime I'll find a PC with an AGP slot and test the hardware ID of this X1950 Pro (as well as X1650 I've tested earlier and it did not work too).
  • »15.02.18 - 13:59
    Profile
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    koszer
    Posts: 832 from 2004/2/8
    From: Poland
    Small update: Looking for the device ID I've found an AGP-equipped PC and installed my X1950 Pro, but with no luck - the screen stays black. Maybe it's not MorphOS fault but just another bricked gfx card. I'll investigate some more.
  • »21.02.18 - 07:07
    Profile
  • zoi
  • Just looking around
    zoi
    Posts: 6 from 2018/2/11
    From: Prague, Czech ...
    Quote:

    koszer wrote:
    Small update: Looking for the device ID I've found an AGP-equipped PC and installed my X1950 Pro, but with no luck - the screen stays black. Maybe it's not MorphOS fault but just another bricked gfx card. I'll investigate some more.



    what machine are you trying to put this card in?

    It's been over a decade, but from my adventures flashing a radeon 9600 for my powermac3,3 I remember some electrical incompatibility in addition to needing a new ROM. Two pins on the card needed to be either scratched off, or in my case I covered them with electrical tape so that the mod was reversible.

    I found some more recent source about it.
  • »21.02.18 - 09:18
    Profile
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    koszer
    Posts: 832 from 2004/2/8
    From: Poland
    Quote:

    zoi wrote:
    what machine are you trying to put this card in?

    It's been over a decade, but from my adventures flashing a radeon 9600 for my powermac3,3 I remember some electrical incompatibility in addition to needing a new ROM. Two pins on the card needed to be either scratched off, or in my case I covered them with electrical tape so that the mod was reversible.



    Nah, they were both AGP x8 equipped machines (PowerMac G5 and some generic PC with AGP x8 slot on the mobo). In a few days I'll get another X1950 Pro (this time a surely working one) and we will see... again.
  • »21.02.18 - 11:55
    Profile
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    koszer
    Posts: 832 from 2004/2/8
    From: Poland
    Quote:

    koszer wrote:
    Nah, they were both AGP x8 equipped machines (PowerMac G5 and some generic PC with AGP x8 slot on the mobo). In a few days I'll get another X1950 Pro (this time a surely working one) and we will see... again.



    I got another X1950 Pro, this time it was 100% working. I've tested it on a PC, with no problem. But on PowerMac G5 it doesn't give any sign of life. The fan is spinning, but there's no video.
    I guess the AGP versions of R500 aren't so supported by MorphOS after all.
  • »26.02.18 - 17:47
    Profile
  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4695 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    koszer wrote:
    Quote:

    koszer wrote:
    Nah, they were both AGP x8 equipped machines (PowerMac G5 and some generic PC with AGP x8 slot on the mobo). In a few days I'll get another X1950 Pro (this time a surely working one) and we will see... again.



    I got another X1950 Pro, this time it was 100% working. I've tested it on a PC, with no problem. But on PowerMac G5 it doesn't give any sign of life. The fan is spinning, but there's no video.
    I guess the AGP versions of R500 aren't so supported by MorphOS after all.


    I am fairly certain that the AGP models (of the R500 series) are supported, as other people are using them.
    And Mark did his development work with a Radeon X1950Pro installed in his G5 (rather like the combo you are attempting).

    Again, I'd get the device ID for the card and contact Mark.
    A PITA I know, but what other OS would you be likely to get that kind of level of assistance? ;÷)

    Reviewing this entire idea again, I still don't believe a PC AGP X1950Pro @ 1X is going outperform an 8X Apple X800XT.
    But the comparison would prove interesting.

    Something tells me that the comparison would provide a strong argument for PCIe based systems.

    [ Edited by Jim 26.02.2018 - 18:43 ]
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »27.02.18 - 00:33
    Profile
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    koszer
    Posts: 832 from 2004/2/8
    From: Poland
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:
    Again, I'd get the device ID for the card and contact Mark.
    A PITA I know, but what other OS would you be likely to get that kind of level of assistance? ;÷)


    I've tried, but with no success. Both PM and e-mail remain silent.
  • »27.02.18 - 07:08
    Profile
  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4695 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    koszer wrote:
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:
    Again, I'd get the device ID for the card and contact Mark.
    A PITA I know, but what other OS would you be likely to get that kind of level of assistance? ;÷)


    I've tried, but with no success. Both PM and e-mail remain silent.




    Patience...it may take awhile to hear back from him.
    His career keeps him pretty busy.

    And PMs on MorphZone aren't usually the best form of contact (I'd stick with his developer e-mail address).

    So, if you have sent an e-mail, multiple messages shouldn't be required (although you probably should have sent the ID info with the initial inquiry).
    Just put the project on the 'back burner' until you hear back.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »27.02.18 - 11:19
    Profile
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    koszer
    Posts: 832 from 2004/2/8
    From: Poland
    The card's ID is:

    Primary:
    PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_7280&SUBSYS_22041787&REV_9A\4&1AD7642&0&0058

    Secondary:
    PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_72A0&SUBSYS_22051787&REV_9A\4&1AD7642&0&0158

    I've sent them to Bigfoot as soon as I knew them. Now, until the card is supported - buyers, beware!
  • »01.03.18 - 20:19
    Profile
  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    Tomo
    Posts: 85 from 2003/7/29
    From: Heesch, The Ne...
    Hi,

    as you know my Peg2-board died. I've found my old Peg1-board and I'm trying to use it again. But the computer didn't want to start from the HDisk. I installed 3.10, but I've still problems. I've to use 'boot /ide/disk@0,0:DH0 boot.img' to start from the HDisk.

    Another problem is that I deleted my first Hdisk (and its content, I know, very stupid).
    I found back my Morphoskey, but placing it in DEVS: slows still the computer. Where do I have to place the key?

    Tom
  • »28.03.18 - 13:50
    Profile
  • Caterpillar
    Caterpillar
    xilinder
    Posts: 33 from 2018/2/1
    From: USA
    Quote:

    koszer wrote:
    The card's ID is:

    Primary:
    PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_7280&SUBSYS_22041787&REV_9A\4&1AD7642&0&0058

    Secondary:
    PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_72A0&SUBSYS_22051787&REV_9A\4&1AD7642&0&0158




    So it is a AMD RV570 X1950 PRO.
  • »28.03.18 - 15:58
    Profile
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9962 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    >> The card's ID is:
    >> Primary:
    >> PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_7280&SUBSYS_22041787&REV_9A\4&1AD7642&0&0058
    >> Secondary:
    >> PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_72A0&SUBSYS_22051787&REV_9A\4&1AD7642&0&0158

    > So it is a AMD RV570 X1950 PRO.

    He's quite aware of that (see comment #65). The interesting parts are those that come after "1002" for AMD and "7280"/"72A0" for RV570 (Radeon X1950 PRO).
  • »28.03.18 - 16:31
    Profile
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    koszer
    Posts: 832 from 2004/2/8
    From: Poland
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    >> The card's ID is:
    >> Primary:
    >> PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_7280&SUBSYS_22041787&REV_9A\4&1AD7642&0&0058
    >> Secondary:
    >> PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_72A0&SUBSYS_22051787&REV_9A\4&1AD7642&0&0158

    > So it is a AMD RV570 X1950 PRO.

    He's quite aware of that (see comment #65). The interesting parts are those that come after "1002" for AMD and "7280"/"72A0" for RV570 (Radeon X1950 PRO).


    I got some feedback from BigFoot recently (He's alive!), so I'll soon be off for some testing. Stay tuned!
  • »28.03.18 - 18:58
    Profile
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9962 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > He's alive!

    Yes, he‘s written 7 comments in 4 threads 2 days ago :-)
  • »28.03.18 - 20:39
    Profile
  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4695 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    koszer wrote:
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    >> The card's ID is:
    >> Primary:
    >> PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_7280&SUBSYS_22041787&REV_9A\4&1AD7642&0&0058
    >> Secondary:
    >> PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_72A0&SUBSYS_22051787&REV_9A\4&1AD7642&0&0158

    > So it is a AMD RV570 X1950 PRO.

    He's quite aware of that (see comment #65). The interesting parts are those that come after "1002" for AMD and "7280"/"72A0" for RV570 (Radeon X1950 PRO).


    I got some feedback from BigFoot recently (He's alive!), so I'll soon be off for some testing. Stay tuned!


    So Koszer, any luck yet?
    The X1950Pro represents the highest end video card we can currently use in AGP machines and I'd like to add one to my G4 (out of a perverse sense of "just because I can do it" - after all, I had a FireGL X3 running in a G4 at one time).

    Since we didn't get AGP support for the later cards (a G4/HD4670 combo would make more sense), your experiment is the best I can do (for now).
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »30.03.18 - 16:36
    Profile