Cloanto sues Hyperion
  • vox
  • Order of the Butterfly
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    vox
    Posts: 386 from 2003/11/25
    From: Belgrade
    Quote:

    amigadave wrote:
    X5000 & A1222 drivers??? I'm still waiting for a working driver for my X1000 on board Ethernet adapter! In addition to the mythical AmigaOS4.2, that I strongly doubt will ever be completed "as described when the X1000 was first released, or when my particular X1000 was produced and sold to me".

    As much as I like Trevor and Matthew at A-Eon, I think they have a responsibility to complete a working driver for the X1000's on board Ethernet adapter, before moving on to their later motherboard designs.


    I used to like them, before experiencing their products.

    SAM460 does not have a DMA for onbaord SATA even today in AmigaOS driver.
    I feel your x1000 anger, as I have one. Add Timberwolf and LibreOffice to the story,
    as well as software AEON licensed (Octamed, ImageFX ...) but hasnt even put to sale.

    Sadly, same thing happens again with x5000 net/audio drivers upon release, and seems A1222 is delayed so long maybe to be first fully supported after SAM440 and A1 XEs.

    And yet so far I have paid OS 4.1 beta with x1000, prepaid OS 4.2, purchased OS 4.1 Final and Enhancer, not to mention OS4 Classic and OS4 SAM440/460 that I do own also.

    Such company deserves class lawsuit by owners, as delivering unfinished products (in software terms).

    But, someties, corporate fights do their own magic. If there werent nice and taleneted people like porting Tower 57 or AmiKit package, Apollo Team, MorphOS team, some strange AROS experiments like Vision and AEROS etc. magic would be long gone. Cloanto is a bit all around but retro preservation package.
    ------------------------------------------
    x1000 user, ASAP Vampire Standalone user, future MOS user
  • »18.03.18 - 23:41
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9838 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > x5000 [...] audio drivers

    What audio drivers? The Cyrus Plus has no onboard audio hardware.

    > seems A1222 is [...] maybe to be [...] fully supported

    2nd CPU core?
  • »19.03.18 - 00:14
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Zylesea
    Posts: 1848 from 2003/6/4
    Hyperion is sueing again: http://www.amiga-news.de/de/news/AN-2018-03-00041-DE.html (German)
    against:
    Amiga, Amino, Cloanto and Itec.

    :banana:
    --
    http://www.via-altera.de

    Whenever you're sad just remember the world is 4.543 billion years old and you somehow managed to exist at the same time as David Bowie.
  • »19.03.18 - 19:14
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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    number6
    Posts: 150 from 2008/8/10
    Quote:

    Zylesea wrote:
    Hyperion is sueing again: http://www.amiga-news.de/de/news/AN-2018-03-00041-DE.html (German)
    against:
    Amiga, Amino, Cloanto and Itec.

    :banana:


    Yep. Posted 3 days ago in this very thread.

    #6
  • »19.03.18 - 19:32
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Zylesea
    Posts: 1848 from 2003/6/4
    Quote:

    number6 schrieb:
    Quote:

    Zylesea wrote:
    Hyperion is sueing again: http://www.amiga-news.de/de/news/AN-2018-03-00041-DE.html (German)
    against:
    Amiga, Amino, Cloanto and Itec.

    :banana:


    Yep. Posted 3 days ago in this very thread.

    #6



    Repetition of that isssue was of course didactically motivated ;-)
    --
    http://www.via-altera.de

    Whenever you're sad just remember the world is 4.543 billion years old and you somehow managed to exist at the same time as David Bowie.
  • »19.03.18 - 20:17
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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    number6
    Posts: 150 from 2008/8/10
    Quote:

    Zylesea wrote:
    Quote:

    number6 schrieb:
    Quote:

    Zylesea wrote:
    Hyperion is sueing again: http://www.amiga-news.de/de/news/AN-2018-03-00041-DE.html (German)
    against:
    Amiga, Amino, Cloanto and Itec.

    :banana:


    Yep. Posted 3 days ago in this very thread.

    #6



    Repetition of that isssue was of course didactically motivated ;-)


    heh. good one.
    btw-comment #10 is a gem.

    #6
  • »19.03.18 - 20:46
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  • vox
  • Order of the Butterfly
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    vox
    Posts: 386 from 2003/11/25
    From: Belgrade
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > x5000 [...] audio drivers

    >What audio drivers? The Cyrus Plus has no onboard audio hardware.


    My bad. I believe its onboard SATA drivers making quite a hell this time,
    CD0: disappearing and such (if not fixed by magic Steven meanwhile)


    Quote:

    > seems A1222 is [...] maybe to be [...] fully supported

    >2nd CPU core?


    Even the single core with SPE gives trouble >:-)

    I often wonder why they design/ship x1000,x5000 and A1222 dual core
    as OS4 dream machines, instead of going high frequency single core ...

    Back to topic: It would be good if legal cases would clean up things,
    but they usually dont, at least in Amigaland. Only possible victim
    is announced "Hyperion OS 3.1+" and licensing for emulation/Androids.

    [ Edited by vox 20.03.2018 - 10:32 ]
    ------------------------------------------
    x1000 user, ASAP Vampire Standalone user, future MOS user
  • »20.03.18 - 10:29
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9838 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > I often wonder why they design/ship x1000,x5000 and A1222 dual core
    > as OS4 dream machines, instead of going high frequency single core ...

    X1000:
    There has never been a single-core PA6T on the market.

    X5000:
    Price difference between dual-core P5020 and single-core P5010 is about 42 USD, which is less than 3% of total board price. And both are 2.0 GHz max.

    A1222:
    Price difference between dual-core P1022 and single-core P1013 is about 6 USD, which is less than 2% of total board price. And both are 1.2 GHz max.
  • »20.03.18 - 16:44
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  • Order of the Butterfly
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    Cool_amigaN
    Posts: 470 from 2011/11/30
    Interesting, where did you get the price indication from?
    Amiga gaming Tribute: Watch, rate, comment :)
  • »20.03.18 - 18:13
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9838 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > where did you get the price indication from?

    NXP website.
  • »20.03.18 - 19:43
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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    number6
    Posts: 150 from 2008/8/10
    Quote:

    number6 wrote:
    @thread

    New lawsuit filed

    #6


    "etal" is used to shorten the title of a suit, not lengthen it, ergo the usage of the term on the defendants side makes sense.

    Does anyone have a theory on who "etal" is on the plaintiff side? I don't believe they would intentionally add that to the plaintiff side of the suit title without point.

    #6
  • »21.03.18 - 18:24
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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    number6
    Posts: 150 from 2008/8/10
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > Cloanto starts new legal battle against Hyperion

    New complaint issued by Cloanto. Contentwise nothing really changed compared to the one from December 2017, as far as I can see. It's still primarily about copyright to Kickstart 1.3 and ownership and use of "Amiga", "AmigaOS", "Amiga OS", "AmigaOne", "Amiga One" and Boing Ball trademarks.


    Prior, Hyperion's filing was also amended. I have not seen that document's contents posted yet.
    Since both claims have been amended, there must be some fine lines of difference, but we'll have to wait for someone with the patience and skill to compare originals with amended versions.

    Although not related to content, as you say, I am curious how this part turns out though:
    Quote:

    Upon information and belief, Defendant is not currently in good standing in its country of incorporation, and while it may defend actions against it, it may not bring actions.


    #6
  • »28.05.18 - 18:49
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Jim
    Posts: 4629 from 2009/1/28
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    It just never ends, does it?

    If they litigate to a stable relationship, they'll have wasted huge sums of money that could have gone into development.

    And if it ends in the dissolution of one or the other, I'm not sure I'm confident that either is a worthy standard bearer.

    Like dogs fighting over scraps...
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »28.05.18 - 19:37
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    amigadave
    Posts: 2503 from 2006/3/21
    From: Lake Shastina,...
    Quote:

    number6 wrote:
    Although not related to content, as you say, I am curious how this part turns out though:

    Quote:

    Upon information and belief, Defendant is not currently in good standing in its country of incorporation, and while it may defend actions against it, it may not bring actions.


    #6


    That part caught my attention as well. As Jim pointed out, this is most probably a "No Win" situation, where everyone loses, including the few hundred remaining AmigaOS4 users, and the 1,000 to 2,000 mildly interested users.

    [ Edited by amigadave 30.05.2018 - 15:35 ]
    MorphOS - The best Next Gen Amiga choice.
  • »30.05.18 - 23:34
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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    number6
    Posts: 150 from 2008/8/10
    @Andreas Wolf

    From my earlier post in this thread:

    Quote:

    Perhaps? on-topic. It's unusual for this many posts to be made on the english side of Amiganews, but...

    Source

    Oh, and I've often wondered about the validity of information given in an earlier post on Amiganews also in english only.

    Source

    Added link.

    #6


    You might find a tie in to information posted in the latest chapter here:
    paragraph that begins with "Between December 2016 and May 2017"

    #6
  • »15.06.18 - 23:04
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Jim
    Posts: 4629 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    number6 wrote:
    @Andreas Wolf

    From my earlier post in this thread:

    Quote:

    Perhaps? on-topic. It's unusual for this many posts to be made on the english side of Amiganews, but...

    Source

    Oh, and I've often wondered about the validity of information given in an earlier post on Amiganews also in english only.

    Source

    Added link.

    #6


    You might find a tie in to information posted in the latest chapter here:
    paragraph that begins with "Between December 2016 and May 2017"

    #6




    I've read this baseless pile of rumors and outright lies before.

    The excuse provided for McEwen's corporate shell game is particularly odious.

    "On the legal side, during the AmigaOS 4 project, Amiga Washington found itself in need of transferring rights for the "Classic" Amiga OS (which Hyperion was basing its work on) to the new Amiga Delaware entity, apparently for the prime reason of protecting this asset from the Thendic/Genesi vs. Amiga [21] litigation, but possibly also in a shift of control between shareholders. Thendic/Genesi were supporting a competing Amiga-inspired operating system, named MorphOS."

    Again, the ONLY reason for the "transfer" was to defraud Amiga Washington's creditors and those the company owned payment to for work done.

    And Amiga Washington had already defrauded Bill Buck and Thendic with their bogus AmigaDE operating system.

    This garbage tries to make excuses for the inexcusable.

    Again, I ask you all, who actually produced code?

    IS $25,000 adequate for a cross ISA port?

    And even if it is, if the company you contracted with to do this work goes bankrupt and your contract contains a bankruptcy clause, are you obligated to transfer the rights of a property to a party other than that which you contracted with?
    Bankruptcy rules in the United States disallow the transfer of assets to shield them from bankruptcy proceedings.
    Such conduct is considered fraud and criminal conduct.

    That post even tries to slander Trevor.
    At every step, McEwen's side has tried to re-write history.

    Personally, I hope to see Cloanto go down in flames for attempting to drag us back into obligation to this ego maniacal truck driver.

    Should we care here? Well, yeah, that piece of crap post tries to make it sound like MorphOS is a Genesi endeavor when it preceded Genesi's formation.
    And has someone completely forgotten Phase 5, DCE or bPlan?
    What next? Cloanto tries to sue MorphOS developers or the AROS community?

    A second rate re-packager of UAE wants to own the rights to the entire community and this doesn't offend any of you?
    No matter WHAT I think of Hermans, there are OS4 developers I'm actually impressed by, and the product DID get released.
    So far we've managed to co-exist.

    WTF, has Cloanto ever produced of significance?
    "Preservation mode?" My ass.

    [ Edited by Jim 15.06.2018 - 23:56 ]
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »16.06.18 - 01:44
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9838 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    >> paragraph that begins with "Between December 2016 and May 2017"

    > baseless pile of rumors and outright lies

    It has really many (260) documents linked for a "baseless pile of rumours and outright lies". In my opinion, it is one of the best (if not the best) researched round-up of newer and newest Amiga (as in "official Amiga") history. That is not to say it's completely error-free, of course.

    > Amiga Washington had already defrauded Bill Buck and Thendic with their
    > bogus AmigaDE operating system.

    I don't think they have. Genesi wasn't really interested in AmigaDE. What they wanted was OS4 (and use of accompanying trademarks) for their Pegasos II, so they tried in court to paint OS4 as an updated version of AmigaDE, which didn't work for obvious reasons. Furthermore, Genesi was shortly after in the French Pretory case effectively denied the status of Thendic (France) affiliate after they were caught transferring money from Thendic France to Genesi in an attempt to secure Thendic France's liquid assets while at the same time avoiding their liabilities, so the contract between Amiga Inc. Washington and Thendic wouldn't have been applicable to Genesi hardware anyway. Thendic's own hardware AmigaDE was supposed to come with as per the contract allegedly never went into serial production, btw.
    In conclusion, who tried to defraud whom here is not so clear as it may appear to you, I think.

    > who actually produced code?

    This question is too generic. Every party involved produced code in some form or another at some point(s) in time.

    > IS $25,000 adequate for a cross ISA port?

    Note that this was the sum agreed to for a minimal port as per the 2001 contract. Minimal port was defined as implementing only the absolutely necessary low-level parts of the OS natively for PPC and running everything above through a transparent emulation. The PPC code was planned to be based on WarpUP/WarpOS, but which was found unsuitable for this purpose after Hyperion saw that it was mostly barely commented and hard to understand ASM code.
    By signing the contract, however, Hyperion agreed that the sum was adequate.

    > if the company you contracted with to do this work goes bankrupt

    As said, Amiga Inc. Washington (Amino) never ceased to exist. It was never dissolved, just renamed to its original name.

    > Bankruptcy rules in the United States disallow the transfer of assets
    > to shield them from bankruptcy proceedings.

    Because of the bankruptcy clause, the "assets" wouldn't have been part of any bankruptcy proceedings anyway.

    > That post even tries to slander Trevor.

    How so?

    > Cloanto [is] attempting to drag us back [...]

    Who is 'us'? It surely doesn't include me :-)

    > that piece of crap post tries to make it sound like MorphOS is a
    > Genesi endeavor

    How so?

    > has someone completely forgotten Phase 5, DCE or bPlan?

    I guess that's simply not in the scope of the round-up.

    > What next? Cloanto tries to sue MorphOS developers or the AROS community?

    Why should they? Slandering MorphOS and AROS developers has been Hyperion's hobby.

    > A second rate re-packager of UAE wants to own the rights to the entire community

    Cloanto doesn't want to own the rights to any community, as far as I can see.

    > and this doesn't offend any of you?

    At least not me. I'm not even a user of what Cloanto claims to own.

    > WTF, has Cloanto ever produced of significance? "Preservation mode?" My ass.

    I guess you didn't contact them via http://cloanto.org ;-)
  • »17.06.18 - 23:58
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  • Jim
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    Jim
    Posts: 4629 from 2009/1/28
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    Actually, I was going to edit out large chunks of that rant tonight, but now that you've commented on it, I'll leave it.

    Too much vitriol and opinion on my part as well. In the long run, I have no real stake in this except old sentiments.

    On Trevor, this part bugs me, "what had started as a clerical $250 error even according to Hyperion, evolved into a complex lawsuit coordinated by Mr. Ben Hermans acting as attorney of his own company and reportedly funded [239] by British oil millionaire [232] Mr. Robert Trevor Dickinson."

    The first document referenced is highly biased. Trevor has been abused by Hermans himself, and the separation of their business endeavors is the end result of that.
    That he wanted to salvage something and move forward? I don't see that as anything sinister, just too optimistic.

    Also - When you go through that mass of references attached to that online document (which aren't nearly as helpful as the author seems to think they are) you find that Thendic was a licensee of AmigaDE and Bill wanted to discuss porting it to the Pegasos or find out if it could be interfaced with MorphOS (the Peg being a bPlan design if I'm not mistaken).
    Bill's involvement with all three enterprises ought to validate that port inquiry.

    As Amiga Washington failed to provide AmigaDE for the PDA Bill wanted to sell, and his contract specified that he was allowed to request ports to additional devices, the contention that Thendic or Genesi might have had a stake in the use of the Amiga OS trademark isn't that far fetched.

    Of course, I don't think Bill wants any part of this hot mess. He mentioned to me a couple of weeks ago that Air France just lost their last appeal on an old lawsuit that Genesi was tied up in. Maybe he'll recover whatever they were seeking there.
    He's pretty honest about how close things got to shutting down because of business complications.

    And if we revisit the "who created what" argument, well, he did build several NG systems, subsidize OS ports and help obtain hardware, all while staying in business, remaining solvent, and not abusing anyone too much (again, my opinions).

    IMHO, that's a better score than Eyetech and Amiga Inc have.

    Oh, I think I have quoted this before, but this review of how you CAN continue to beat a dead horse is amusing.

    1) Buying a stronger whip.
    2) Changing riders.
    3) Say things like, "This is the way we have always ridden this horse."
    4) Appointing a committee to study the horse.
    5) Arranging to visit other sites to see how they ride dead horses.
    6) Increasing the standards to ride dead horses.
    7) Appointing a tiger team to revive the dead horse.
    8) Creating a training session to increase our riding ability.
    9) Comparing the state of dead horses in today's environment.
    10) Change the requirements declaring that "This horse is not dead."
    11) Hire contractors to ride the dead horse.
    12) Harnessing several dead horses together for increased speed.
    13) Declaring that "No horse is too dead to beat."
    14) Providing additional funding to increase the horse's performance.
    15) Do a Cost Analysis study to see if contractors can ride it cheaper.
    16) Purchase a product to make dead horses run faster.
    17) Declare the horse is "better, faster and cheaper" dead.
    18) Form a quality circle to find uses for dead horses.
    19) Revisit the performance requirements for horses.
    20) Say this horse was procured with cost as an independent variable.
    21) Promote the dead horse to a supervisory position.

    There is a really good lesson in strategic business management here guys.

    >In conclusion, who tried to defraud whom here is not so clear as it may appear to you, I think.

    Hmm, nothing that involves politics is ever clear.
    Some how its tied to a flaw in human nature I can not accurately conceptualize, although I have tried to wrap my mind around it for years.

    But we do seem to have this weird redneck extended family feel to this community that I can try to explain to you, this relative won't talk to that relative, but will talk to another, but you don't associate with that one...ever dealt with family situations like that?



    [ Edited by Jim 17.06.2018 - 20:55 ]
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »18.06.18 - 00:17
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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    number6
    Posts: 150 from 2008/8/10
    @Jim

    Quote:

    That post even tries to slander Trevor.

    I believe you meant to refer to "libel"

    Just a word about the website, based on what the author has written.
    There are several sections of disclaimers including "Introduction" and "About This Research".

    Example: "Less than a quarter of the listed files are also cross-referenced in the article", which should tell you that the majority of documents provided are offered without comment. Anyone can use them for their own research and I'm sure this is the case.

    In additiion he has plainly stated what he still hopes to achieve, what documentation he is looking for, and his appeal to have information sent in order to assist in his process.

    In addition the bold print from the introduction "Please note: facts were referenced wherever possible. Everything else is personal opinion only!" makes it quite clear that people are going to use this opinion portion to discern what this "might" all mean. Each individual reading AmigaDocuments might well have their own interpretation.

    In the end people believe what they want to believe. It -is- that simple.

    Essentially, I see this site as 2 pronged. The documents are erm...documents and can be more readily accepted as facts.
    The balance is a bold and daunting task of attempting to tell a story by incorporating what he can from personal knowledge, the documents, and those items yet to be made public that he indicates are in his possession.

    The point of my posting was solely to connect prior writings with the recent claim of audio clips, where the written postings tied to the information stated to be in said audio clips.
    Truth? See above about "belief".

    #6

    [ Edited by number6 18.06.2018 - 10:10 ]
  • »18.06.18 - 15:07
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  • Jim
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    Jim
    Posts: 4629 from 2009/1/28
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    Yes, libel, sorry I should have used the correct legal term.

    And while the references to audio clips that aren't provided is unfortunate, there are legal issues to releasing audio records.

    >In the end people believe what they want to believe. It -is- that simple.

    Issues related to apparent differences between personal reality and shared reality always complicate things, again it just comes down to a matter of beliefs.

    That and I'm sure at their core, everyone feels justified in holding their viewpoints and justifying their actions. After all, people want to feel good about themselves.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »18.06.18 - 15:23
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9838 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > On Trevor, this part bugs me, "[...] reportedly funded [239] by [...] Robert Trevor Dickinson."
    > The [...] document referenced is highly biased.

    I don't see any bias in the referenced document, but it doesn't contain anything about any funding by Dickinson either. So this part bugs me as well, just for a completely different reason.

    >> Genesi wasn't really interested in AmigaDE. What they wanted was OS4
    >> (and use of accompanying trademarks) for their Pegasos II, so they tried
    >> in court to paint OS4 as an updated version of AmigaDE, which didn't
    >> work for obvious reasons.

    > Bill wanted to discuss porting [AmigaDE] to the Pegasos

    That's an inventive way of putting what I wrote above :-)

    >> Genesi was shortly after in the French Pretory case effectively denied the
    >> status of Thendic (France) affiliate after they were caught transferring money
    >> from Thendic France to Genesi in an attempt to secure Thendic France's
    >> liquid assets while at the same time avoiding their liabilities, so the contract
    >> between Amiga Inc. Washington and Thendic wouldn't have been applicable
    >> to Genesi hardware anyway.

    > his contract specified that he was allowed to request ports to additional devices

    The contract wasn't with Buck but with the company Thendic and was only applicable to Thendic's own hardware and, subject to request, hardware of affiliate companies. As Genesi wasn't a Thendic affiliate, as written above, the contract was not applicable to the Pegasos II. The fact that the US court issued a default judgement in favour of Genesi (regarding AmigaDE, but expressly not regarding OS4) due to Amiga Inc. lawyers not being paid anymore and so not showing up in court and also due to the French court findings not yet happened does not change this.

    > the contention that Thendic or Genesi might have had a stake in the use
    > of the Amiga OS trademark isn't that far fetched.

    Bundling the Pegasos II with AmigaDE could have allowed them to use the "AmigaDE" trademark, but certainly not the "AmigaOS" or "Amiga OS" trademarks.
  • »18.06.18 - 23:40
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