Pegasos/MorphOS graphic boards compatibility list!!!!
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9624 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    >> firmware (unability to see any GPUs behind bridge chips)

    > Actually, there are PCI versions of HD4350-based graphics cards.

    ...which should be using a bridge chip, as the R700 GPU family is PCIe only, so should be subject to the Pegasos II firmware‘s mentioned limitation, shouldn‘t it? Btw, PCI Radeons went up to the HD5450 even.
  • »02.04.18 - 02:02
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  • ASiegel
    Posts: 933 from 2003/2/15
    From: Central Europe
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    should be subject to the Pegasos II firmware‘s mentioned limitation, shouldn‘t it?

    Unlike you, I would not broadly classify graphics cards as "unusable with a Pegasos" for not showing me "SmartFirmware(tm)" for the millionth time when I boot up.

    Personally, I have not updated my boot script in 15 years. When there is a CD in the drive, it will be booted. If not, the computer starts from harddisk, which is always connected to the same port.
  • »02.04.18 - 10:21
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Chain-Q
    Posts: 327 from 2003/10/12
    From: 1 AU, EU, DE/HU
    I've got a HD4350 PCI, which I tested in my Pegasos II. OF obviously doesn't work, but MorphOS 3.10 should. Sadly, the performance is compromised by the PCI bridge of this card, and the 33Mhz PCI slot, so the available bandwidth to the HD Radeon is a magnitude slower than to an AGP card, so overall the experience is not really improved compared to an R200 or R300 Radeon.

    Would be fun if someone could try an AGP to 3.3V PCI passive converter (similarly what the Efika has, but the "other way around"), and try the PCI Radeon HD in the AGP slot, but I couldn't find such a piece of hardware.
    [.PegasosII/G4.:.Efika.:.Amiga2000/060.]
    [.Free Pascal Compiler MorphOS Port.]
    [.Hosting AmigaSpirit.hu.]
  • »02.04.18 - 10:43
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9624 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > I would not broadly classify graphics cards as "unusable with a Pegasos"
    > for not showing me "SmartFirmware(tm)"

    Until now I thought that an OS running on the Pegasos II would inherit this firmware limitation. Good to learn that this is not the case and that from a user perspective it works similar to using an AtomBIOS-based graphics card in a PowerMac G5.
  • »02.04.18 - 12:05
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9624 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > I've got a HD4350 PCI, which I tested in my Pegasos II.
    > OF obviously doesn't work, but MorphOS 3.10 should.

    Should or does/did? Initial HD4350 support was added with MorphOS 3.8.

    > Would be fun if someone could try an AGP to 3.3V PCI passive converter [...],
    > and try the PCI Radeon HD in the AGP slot

    Yes, as the weakest link determines the total speed, PCIe <-> 66 MHz PCI <-> AGP should be twice as fast as PCIe <-> 66 MHz PCI <-> 33 MHz PCI.
  • »02.04.18 - 12:27
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Chain-Q
    Posts: 327 from 2003/10/12
    From: 1 AU, EU, DE/HU
    Quote:

    Should or does/did? Initial HD4350 support was added with MorphOS 3.8.

    Does this answer your question? : Pega2-2GB-RadeonHD.png

    Made with an earlier beta, but the final works as well. 3.10 improved the support, so the card is now initialized properly without the OF, and works in a Pegasos II, or Efika. It didn't work with 3.8 or 3.9 at least. I still cannot wholeheartedly recommend it over an R9800 or 9200 though, for the aforementioned reasons.
    [.PegasosII/G4.:.Efika.:.Amiga2000/060.]
    [.Free Pascal Compiler MorphOS Port.]
    [.Hosting AmigaSpirit.hu.]
  • »03.04.18 - 21:33
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9624 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Pega2-2GB-RadeonHD.png
    > [...] the card [...] works in a Pegasos II, or Efika.

    Wow, that‘s seriously cool :-) Thank you for posting this.
  • »03.04.18 - 23:51
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4466 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > Pega2-2GB-RadeonHD.png
    > [...] the card [...] works in a Pegasos II, or Efika.

    Wow, that‘s seriously cool :-) Thank you for posting this.


    Yes, that IS very nice.
    Until now, your best choice was a universally keyed Radeon 9800Pro.

    Of course the Radeon still has the advantage of 3D acceleration.

    But these HD PCI cards should eventually receive 3D support.

    The PCI bus is comparatively slow, but the superior power of these gpus should help compensate for that.
    And these PCI cards could be used on other AGP systems, since our AGP support tops out at the X1950Pro (and the Apple X800XT actually performs better since it isn't limited by 1X bus transfer rates).

    I know it was Marks decision, but I still wish we'd received support for the AGP variants of the HD 3850 and the 4650/70. They would have been transfer rate limited as well, but an HD 3850 or 4670 should be a match for the 5450.

    In any case, our future really depends on adopting PCIe systems.

    There are no high end HD based PCI cards, and running a PCIe card in a PCI slot (as some SAM440 OS4 users do), just seems too limiting.

    Still, I'm distracting from the main point, Peg users can now upgrade to cards beyond the Radeon 9800, and that's cool.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »04.04.18 - 06:24
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9624 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > The PCI bus is comparatively slow, but the superior power of these
    > gpus should help compensate for that.

    I still think this depends on the use case.

    http://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=9&topic_id=12232&start=52

    > running a PCIe card in a PCI slot [...] just seems too limiting.

    Is that because "the superior power of these gpus" cannot "help compensate for" the "comparatively slow" "PCI bus"? ;-)
  • »04.04.18 - 10:34
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    BSzili
    Posts: 441 from 2012/6/8
    From: Hungary
    Quote:

    Chain-Q wrote:
    (...)
    Would be fun if someone could try an AGP to 3.3V PCI passive converter (similarly what the Efika has, but the "other way around"), and try the PCI Radeon HD in the AGP slot, but I couldn't find such a piece of hardware.


    Here's one, but it's a home-made project, and I don't think it was ever mass-produced:
    http://extreme.pcgameshardware.de/tagebuecher/233982-projekt-agp-1-0-pci-adapter.html

    [ Edited by BSzili 04.04.2018 - 11:47 ]
    I see the jimmies have been rustled.
  • »04.04.18 - 10:46
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    koszer
    Posts: 727 from 2004/2/8
    From: Poland
    Quote:

    Chain-Q wrote:
    Quote:

    Should or does/did? Initial HD4350 support was added with MorphOS 3.8.

    Does this answer your question? : Pega2-2GB-RadeonHD.png

    Made with an earlier beta, but the final works as well. 3.10 improved the support, so the card is now initialized properly without the OF, and works in a Pegasos II, or Efika. It didn't work with 3.8 or 3.9 at least. I still cannot wholeheartedly recommend it over an R9800 or 9200 though, for the aforementioned reasons.


    Now where are them, benchmarks, mate? ;)
  • »04.04.18 - 11:11
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9624 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    >> AGP to 3.3V PCI passive converter (similarly what the Efika has,
    >> but the "other way around"), and try the PCI Radeon HD in the
    >> AGP slot, but I couldn't find such a piece of hardware.

    > Here's one [...]

    Looks like the wrong direction (AGP card in PCI slot) to me.
  • »04.04.18 - 15:05
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