G5 Dual/Quad core - how much would it take...?
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    koszer
    Posts: 644 from 2004/2/8
    From: Poland
    OK, so we're here discussing the AmigaOne X5000 vs PowerMac dual/quad core performance, but the discussion is quite pointless ATM, as late 2005 G5 PowerMacs aren't supported by MorphOS (yet?), and the X5000 is said to be. I wonder however (in light of questioned underperformance of X5000) if we (end users) can do anything to make a late G5 support in MorphOS more likely. Like a bounty, or a declaration of registering as soon as said version sees the light of the day...

    There's been a G5 support bounty once... What do you think?
  • »14.09.17 - 16:21
    Profile
  • MorphOS Developer
    jacadcaps
    Posts: 1490 from 2003/3/5
    From: Canada
    You should first talk to bigfoot and/or Frank...
  • »14.09.17 - 16:43
    Profile Visit Website
  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4254 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    koszer wrote:
    OK, so we're here discussing the AmigaOne X5000 vs PowerMac dual/quad core performance, but the discussion is quite pointless ATM, as late 2005 G5 PowerMacs aren't supported by MorphOS (yet?), and the X5000 is said to be. I wonder however (in light of questioned underperformance of X5000) if we (end users) can do anything to make a late G5 support in MorphOS more likely. Like a bounty, or a declaration of registering as soon as said version sees the light of the day...

    There's been a G5 support bounty once... What do you think?


    From a component stand point, it has several differences from the AGP G5s.
    It would require quite a few new drivers.

    If I'm not mistaken, the bounty Bigfoot was paid for the original G5 port was about $5000.
    And to the best of my knowledge, Mark does not own a PCI-E G5.

    So, donate a dual or quad core PCI-E G5, arrange a large bounty, AND get someone to agree to do the port.
    No big deal, right?

    I'd be interested in donating to a bounty for that.

    Alternately, we can just be happy with what we have (and the X5000 port that will be released) and await an eventual port to X64.
    "Magnetic was troubled by my avatars and 'satanic' references" - Jim Igou

    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »14.09.17 - 16:44
    Profile
  • Just looking around
    jarokuczi
    Posts: 4 from 2016/12/6
    +1 for bounty or registration commitment. I prefer second option :) maybe not just after release because i have only AGP one. It will be replaced with late 2005 one if support will be confirmed. Registered when it arrive or when MorphOS will be released if arrive earlier :)

    [ Edited by jarokuczi 14.09.2017 - 18:51 ]
  • »14.09.17 - 16:47
    Profile
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Cego
    Posts: 549 from 2006/5/28
    From: Germany
    there won't be no PCIe G5 support. Bigfoot told me several times over the last two years.
    Powerbook G4@1,67GHz, 2GB DDR2 Ram, Radeon 9700, 60GB SSD, MorphOS 3.7
    PowerMac Dual G5 @2.3GHz, 4GB DDR Ram, Radeon 9600XT, 2x250GB HD, MorphOS 3.7, MacOS X Leopard 10.5.8
  • »14.09.17 - 16:59
    Profile
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    koszer
    Posts: 644 from 2004/2/8
    From: Poland
    Quote:

    Cego wrote:
    there won't be no PCIe G5 support. Bigfoot told me several times over the last two years.


    Why? If there's a working beta version... If an X5000 seems to be a letdown when compared to PCIe G5... I guess we just need a good motivator and we're ready to go...

    Unless the X86 support comes as early as in 3.10, which is most unlikely.
  • »14.09.17 - 17:20
    Profile
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Cego
    Posts: 549 from 2006/5/28
    From: Germany
    how do you know theres a working beta? are you a betatester?
    i mean thats what bigfoot told me two or three times, so i dont expect anything in that direction.
    Powerbook G4@1,67GHz, 2GB DDR2 Ram, Radeon 9700, 60GB SSD, MorphOS 3.7
    PowerMac Dual G5 @2.3GHz, 4GB DDR Ram, Radeon 9600XT, 2x250GB HD, MorphOS 3.7, MacOS X Leopard 10.5.8
  • »14.09.17 - 17:57
    Profile
  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4254 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    Cego wrote:
    how do you know theres a working beta? are you a betatester?
    i mean thats what bigfoot told me two or three times, so i dont expect anything in that direction.


    Mark has mentioned this to me as well, since as I've mentioned before, many of the developers think there are already too many systems being supported.
    And I've brought this up at least as many times as Cego.

    Yes, it would be a great system, if supported, BUT it doesn't look like that is going to happen.

    Also, the performance of the X5000 is not nearly as bad as some have portrayed it to be.
    We haven't even seen it running MorphOS yet, it seems to run OS4 fairly well, and the issues that have been brought up with Linux seem specfic to certain distros, not all variants of Linux.
    "Magnetic was troubled by my avatars and 'satanic' references" - Jim Igou

    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »14.09.17 - 18:33
    Profile
  • Cocoon
    Cocoon
    Posts: 46 from 2017/9/10
    Quote:

    d the issues that have been brought up with Linux seem specfic to certain distros, not all variants of Linux.

    ? all variants . for sure an old distro will be more faster than a new one like windows xp is more lighter than windows 7 that is more lighter than windows 10.
    Example ubuntu 12.x work fast on X50000 and is a ultra jet on G5 quad .

    [ Edited by tlosmx 14.09.2017 - 18:44 ]
  • »14.09.17 - 18:43
    Profile
  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4254 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    tlosmx wrote:
    Quote:

    d the issues that have been brought up with Linux seem specfic to certain distros, not all variants of Linux.

    ? all variants . for sure an old distro will be more faster than a new one like windows xp is more lighter than windows 7 that is more lighter than windows 10.
    Example ubuntu 12.x work fast on X50000 and is a ultra jet on G5 quad .


    I believe Spectre660 only told you to move back to 16.04. That isn't that old.
    "Magnetic was troubled by my avatars and 'satanic' references" - Jim Igou

    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »14.09.17 - 19:00
    Profile
  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    Spectre660
    Posts: 88 from 2015/6/30
    I will also try to test Ubuntu 16.10 (with a a SI Card) .

    Quote:

    Jim wrote:
    Quote:

    tlosmx wrote:
    Quote:

    d the issues that have been brought up with Linux seem specfic to certain distros, not all variants of Linux.

    ? all variants . for sure an old distro will be more faster than a new one like windows xp is more lighter than windows 7 that is more lighter than windows 10.
    Example ubuntu 12.x work fast on X50000 and is a ultra jet on G5 quad .


    I believe Spectre660 only told you to move back to 16.04. That isn't that old.
  • »14.09.17 - 19:09
    Profile
  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4254 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    Spectre660 wrote:
    I will also try to test Ubuntu 16.10 (with a a SI Card) .

    Quote:

    Jim wrote:
    Quote:

    tlosmx wrote:
    Quote:

    d the issues that have been brought up with Linux seem specfic to certain distros, not all variants of Linux.

    ? all variants . for sure an old distro will be more faster than a new one like windows xp is more lighter than windows 7 that is more lighter than windows 10.
    Example ubuntu 12.x work fast on X50000 and is a ultra jet on G5 quad .


    I believe Spectre660 only told you to move back to 16.04. That isn't that old.





    That's cool, because I rather like Ubuntu, and all comments denigrating it in comparison to other Linux distros seem to be merely attempt to justify why Linux should be difficult to use.
    After all, Ubuntu is just a Debian offshoot that is easier to adopt and work with.
    "Magnetic was troubled by my avatars and 'satanic' references" - Jim Igou

    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »14.09.17 - 19:21
    Profile
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    zukow
    Posts: 448 from 2005/2/9
    From: Poland
    Quote:

    Cego wrote:
    how do you know theres a working beta? are you a betatester?
    i mean thats what bigfoot told me two or three times, so i dont expect anything in that direction.


    I use it daily as a main machine (G5 2.3GHz). Main difference is in 3D. X1950XT just flies vs. Radeon 9600. PCIe gives also big speedup in OWB scrolling the pages. 970MP CPU speed of 2.3 GHz is similar to 2.5 GHz FX. If someone wants to know any speedtest results just ask :)
  • »14.09.17 - 20:15
    Profile Visit Website
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Cego
    Posts: 549 from 2006/5/28
    From: Germany
    hmm, if its in a running state already, why not release it? I am also using a PowerMac G5 11,2 with 2,3GHz as my main machine with OS X Leopard. MorphOS would be pretty nice on this.
    Powerbook G4@1,67GHz, 2GB DDR2 Ram, Radeon 9700, 60GB SSD, MorphOS 3.7
    PowerMac Dual G5 @2.3GHz, 4GB DDR Ram, Radeon 9600XT, 2x250GB HD, MorphOS 3.7, MacOS X Leopard 10.5.8
  • »14.09.17 - 21:08
    Profile
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    zukow
    Posts: 448 from 2005/2/9
    From: Poland
    Lack of drivers for:
    - builtin network card (i need to use Realtek on PCIe)
    - fans (always on middle speed)
    - temperature support
    - gfx card support is not finished, i couldn't get some HD4xxx working, so i use X1950xt
    all of these above would be part of the bounty :D


    + lack of time and releasing new platform support will require support for users etc.
    + professional release should deal with gfx card problem: as PCIes have NVidia card users would need to buy either Radeon X1900 mac version (very hard to find and expensive) or some X1900/X1950 card with pc bios. Having pc bios card (as I have) doesn't allow to see OF or MacosX.

    Good thing with PCie is that WIFI Atheros cards works so no need to look for hard to find Airport for g5 pcies.





    [ Edited by zukow 14.09.2017 - 23:11 ]
  • »14.09.17 - 22:09
    Profile Visit Website
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    TheMagicM
    Posts: 1103 from 2003/6/17
    I'd pay $100 towards a bounty if a dev agreed to do the port.
  • »15.09.17 - 03:16
    Profile Visit Website
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    asrael22
    Posts: 272 from 2014/6/11
    From: Germany
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:
    Mark has mentioned this to me as well, since as I've mentioned before, many of the developers think there are already too many systems being supported.



    IMO instead of not supporting the latest and fastest G5 machines some older hardware support should be dropped.

    Manfred
  • »15.09.17 - 07:57
    Profile
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9295 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > If I'm not mistaken, the bounty Bigfoot was paid for the original G5 port was about $5000.

    Yes, 13550 PLN were about 4200 USD in May 2013.
  • »15.09.17 - 09:28
    Profile
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9295 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > the performance of the X5000 is not nearly as bad as some have portrayed it to be.
    > We haven't even seen it running MorphOS yet

    Benchmark results requested by me have been released by pampers in January 2016. Anybody could have requested other/more results as offered by him, but nobody did.
  • »15.09.17 - 09:48
    Profile
  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4254 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > the performance of the X5000 is not nearly as bad as some have portrayed it to be.
    > We haven't even seen it running MorphOS yet

    Benchmark results requested by me have been released by pampers in January 2016. Anybody could have requested other/more results as offered by him, but nobody did.


    I've exchanged messages with Wiktor, he didn't seem unhappy with the X5000, he was upset over the dearth of software for MorphOS.

    Wiktor has explored each of the best options for MorphOS, from hi-res PowerBooks, to G5s, to the X5000, and his complaint has never been about performance issues.

    He's unhappy about issues related to the lack of productivity software, browser support, and the utility in using a MorphOS system as a daily platform.

    Quad G5 support would NOT alter this.
    "Magnetic was troubled by my avatars and 'satanic' references" - Jim Igou

    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »15.09.17 - 14:26
    Profile
  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4254 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    zukow wrote:
    Lack of drivers for:
    - builtin network card (i need to use Realtek on PCIe)
    - fans (always on middle speed)
    - temperature support
    - gfx card support is not finished, i couldn't get some HD4xxx working, so i use X1950xt
    all of these above would be part of the bounty :D


    + lack of time and releasing new platform support will require support for users etc.
    + professional release should deal with gfx card problem: as PCIes have NVidia card users would need to buy either Radeon X1900 mac version (very hard to find and expensive) or some X1900/X1950 card with pc bios. Having pc bios card (as I have) doesn't allow to see OF or MacosX.

    Good thing with PCie is that WIFI Atheros cards works so no need to look for hard to find Airport for g5 pcies.






    The R600 and R700 drivers ought to be ready soon, and Mark is working on higher Radeon HD card drivers as well.

    Frank has an X1950XTX (I believe).
    And I have an Apple X1900GT in my Quad, they are easy to come by.

    I doesn't seem fair that you would restrict use of PCI-E G5s to developers based solely on the network support issue.


    [ Edited by Jim 15.09.2017 - 11:12 ]
    "Magnetic was troubled by my avatars and 'satanic' references" - Jim Igou

    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »15.09.17 - 14:39
    Profile
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9295 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    >> Radeon X1900 mac version (very hard to find and expensive)

    > Apple X1900GT [...] are easy to come by.

    Yes, but price very much depends on your location. Currently, eBay Germany only lists an offer by a US dealer (59 EUR + 54 EUR shipping, new, more than 10 available). 113 EUR for the card is pretty steep.

    >> Lack of drivers for:
    >> - builtin network card (i need to use Realtek on PCIe)
    >> - fans (always on middle speed)
    >> - temperature support

    > I doesn't seem fair that you would restrict use of PCI-E G5s to
    > developers based solely on the network support issue.

    That's why it isn't based solely on the network support issue, I guess ;-)
  • »15.09.17 - 19:14
    Profile
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    koszer
    Posts: 644 from 2004/2/8
    From: Poland
    Quote:

    zukow wrote:
    Good thing with PCie is that WIFI Atheros cards works so no need to look for hard to find Airport for g5 pcies.



    I read there's a hack to mount a standard A1027 instead of Runway card (but you need to hack the antenna connector and you loose the Bluetooth option).
  • »16.09.17 - 08:13
    Profile
  • Moderator
    Kronos
    Posts: 1674 from 2003/2/24
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:

    I doesn't seem fair that you would restrict use of PCI-E G5s to developers based solely on the network support issue.



    Dunno wether they have improved it in the past years, but the lack of proper fan control made my iMacG5 totally useless as an everyday machine when it got MorphOSed for some demo.

    HW wise it is very close to the PCIe PMacs.
    --------------------- May the 4th be with you ------------------
    Mother Russia dance of the Zar, don't you know how lucky you are
  • »16.09.17 - 08:59
    Profile