jamiga
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9295 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Storm C v4 and Mesa (the last versions available shortly after,
    > or just before Commodore went bankrupt),

    StormC v4 (the last version of StormC) was released in 2000 or 2001. StormMESA v3.1 (the last version of StormMESA) was released in 1998 or 1999.

    > "The hardest working programmers in the Amiga community",
    > or what ever their slogan is.

    It's "the hardest working men in code business", so slightly broader than just Amiga ;-)
  • »30.08.17 - 15:11
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    asrael22
    Posts: 272 from 2014/6/11
    From: Germany
    Quote:

    Kronos wrote:
    Quote:

    asrael22 wrote:

    And, I'd really like to see the API documentation for MorphOS in one place as HTML, AmigaGuide or whatever.


    Manfred


    That has been the case for some time, even with the public SDK.

    Scribble does highlight keywords, and clicking on them will jump you into an amigaguide file.

    Not sure how complete that tree of files was (it seems pretty complete in what I have here).

    Problem is that documentation for some functions are only stubs. These are mostly old Amiga API ones, so it might be helpfull to have the "Includes&Autodocs" from an old AmigaDeveloperCD handy.


    What about auto-complete?

    But that's what I mean. I don't want to have this CD handy.
    Imagine new people coming to MorphOS.

    The complete SDK/APIU docs should available on some MorphOS maintained site. The wiki for example.

    I know the RKRM and includes&autodocs are somewhere on some web site as HTML.
    But it should be consistent. If that is the MorphOS API then it should be on a MorphOS web site.


    Manfred
  • »30.08.17 - 15:17
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  • Moderator
    Kronos
    Posts: 1674 from 2003/2/24
    The docs are part of the SDK and kinda hard to miss.

    Redoing the docu for all AOS functions in a way that does not look like a copy of C= material is rather unrewarding work (I'd assume) so it's no surprise it's no priority.
    --------------------- May the 4th be with you ------------------
    Mother Russia dance of the Zar, don't you know how lucky you are
  • »30.08.17 - 15:35
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  • ASiegel
    Posts: 885 from 2003/2/15
    From: Central Europe
    Quote:

    asrael22 wrote:
    The complete SDK/APIU docs should available on some MorphOS maintained site. The wiki for example.

    You are more than welcome to add this information to the MorphOS Library ;-)
  • »30.08.17 - 15:37
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9295 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > YAM [...] betas [...] forces you to update nearly every week for some mui classes

    That's far from the truth. The nightly build has to be updated once a month due to expiration. The accompanying MUI classes have seen one single update during the last two years, and as much as ten updates since May 2012, which amounts to an update every 27½ weeks on average.

    http://www.amiga-news.de/en/news/search.html?frmWords=aminet+nlist+betterstring+texteditor+thebar

    > MorphOS version crashed for weeks on launch because nobody cared about
    > (and tested) the native version

    It's not true that nobody cared and/or tested. MorphOS users cared and notified the YAM devs, who then cared as well but weren't able to correct without help. Then MorphOS team member cyfm cared and helped the YAM devs. As you see, people cared about the MorphOS version. And the users tested the nightly builds, that's how the problem was noticed in the first place.

    http://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=11656&forum=9
    https://github.com/jens-maus/yam/issues/617

    > not on some fancy wannabe GUI system with broken features

    You mean the new client won't be MUI-based? ;-)
  • »30.08.17 - 16:09
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    TheMagicM
    Posts: 1103 from 2003/6/17
    Quote:

    asrael22 wrote:

    That's good to hear.
    I'm aware of the new language. Better than C/C++. But can still improve.




    Wait..what? What new language?
  • »30.08.17 - 17:29
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    tolkien
    Posts: 245 from 2013/5/29
    FlowStudio? A new languaje? Whats happening here?????
    PowerMac G5 and PowerBook G4 with MorphOS. Amiga 1200/060 AmigaOS 3.x
  • »30.08.17 - 17:42
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    asrael22
    Posts: 272 from 2014/6/11
    From: Germany
    Quote:

    TheMagicM wrote:
    Quote:

    asrael22 wrote:

    That's good to hear.
    I'm aware of the new language. Better than C/C++. But can still improve.




    Wait..what? What new language?


    If you read carefully, jacadcaps wrote it. :)


    Manfred
  • »30.08.17 - 18:47
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    koszer
    Posts: 644 from 2004/2/8
    From: Poland
    Quote:

    tolkien wrote:
    FlowStudio? A new languaje? Whats happening here?????


    ...and when 3.10 comes out that "new language" turns to be Hopi language localization :)
  • »30.08.17 - 18:57
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    TheMagicM
    Posts: 1103 from 2003/6/17
    Quote:

    asrael22 wrote:
    If you read carefully, jacadcaps wrote it. :)



    Well he only says he'd rather add C# support, but didnt state thats what it was. So is that what it is? LOL
  • »30.08.17 - 19:06
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    asrael22
    Posts: 272 from 2014/6/11
    From: Germany
    Quote:

    TheMagicM wrote:
    Quote:

    asrael22 wrote:
    If you read carefully, jacadcaps wrote it. :)



    Well he only says he'd rather add C# support, but didnt state thats what it was. So is that what it is? LOL


    He said: "3.10 will add support for a different language though."
  • »30.08.17 - 19:34
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  • MorphOS Developer
    jacadcaps
    Posts: 1490 from 2003/3/5
    From: Canada
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    You mean the new client won't be MUI-based? ;-)


    I am pretty sure you know he meant that it will not require any MCCs not bundled with MorphOS.
  • »31.08.17 - 01:32
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9295 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > I am pretty sure you know he meant that it will not require any MCCs
    > not bundled with MorphOS.

    Yes, I was just mocking his unfortunate choice of words :-)
  • »31.08.17 - 14:20
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    polluks
    Posts: 294 from 2007/10/23
    From: Gelsenkirchen,...
    Let's make a compare:
    Outlook is not part of Windows.
    Outlook is an application, not an essential part of the OS.
    But MorphOS really needs a new email client? Aha.

    Another compare:
    You want to execute a complex batch file in Windows.
    No problem, you don't have to get an old DOS copy, it's simply included.
    Nobody says: You have to use PowerShell because old batch files are not supported anymore.
    Sounds ridiculous?
    Let's replace "batch file" by ARexx and "PowerShell" by Lua. Eh?

    A hobby OS is just a hobby OS.
    But sometimes you hardly miss the roadmap.
    Pegasos II G4: MorphOS 3.9, Zalman M220W
    Power Mac G3: OSX 10.3 · PowerBook 5,8: OSX 10.5, MorphOS 3.9
  • »31.08.17 - 19:03
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Zylesea
    Posts: 1787 from 2003/6/4
    Quote:

    polluks schrieb:
    Let's make a compare:
    Outlook is not part of Windows.
    Outlook is an application, not an essential part of the OS.
    But MorphOS really needs a new email client? Aha.

    Another compare:
    You want to execute a complex batch file in Windows.
    No problem, you don't have to get an old DOS copy, it's simply included.
    Nobody says: You have to use PowerShell because old batch files are not supported anymore.
    Sounds ridiculous?
    Let's replace "batch file" by ARexx and "PowerShell" by Lua. Eh?





    I think the email client is work by Jaczek, Lua was done by Krashan IIRC. He shifted his interest a bit away from MorphOS and left a little void (at least he has not completely departed). There is no big and actively managed team. It's rather a bunh of capable developers who do what they can/favor and have the time for. Not an easy situation and I think the outcome given these circumstaces is rather impressive and good
    Quote:


    A hobby OS is just a hobby OS.
    But sometimes you hardly miss the roadmap.



    Yes, sometimes one misses the clear and visible roadmap, but well, a hobby OS is just a hobby OS. We can talk about our visions and wishes with the developers but in the end it boils down to what is doable by those ppl actually involved. If you're really good in development i think the team still has some vacancies, my knowledge/experience is unfortunately quite some levels too low.
    --
    http://www.via-altera.de

    Whenever you're sad just remember the world is 4.543 billion years old and you somehow managed to exist at the same time as David Bowie.
  • »31.08.17 - 20:00
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    asrael22
    Posts: 272 from 2014/6/11
    From: Germany
    Quote:

    polluks wrote:
    Let's make a compare:
    Outlook is not part of Windows.
    Outlook is an application, not an essential part of the OS.
    But MorphOS really needs a new email client? Aha.



    Well. If you look at macOS, Apple also delivers the mail client. There are half a dozen other mail clients but the Apple one just integrates best into Calendar and in the system generally.

    If it's done well, OK.
    I'm exclusive using IMAP and both Yam and SimpleMail didn't really satisfy there.
    I don't know about the state of both and how the code looks like.
    But sometimes it's better to make a clean cut.


    Manfred

    [ Edited by asrael22 31.08.2017 - 21:19 ]
  • »31.08.17 - 20:17
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9295 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Krashan [...] shifted his interest a bit away from MorphOS [...]
    > (at least he has not completely departed).

    Really? I was under the impression he left MorphOS completely behind.
  • »31.08.17 - 20:32
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Zylesea
    Posts: 1787 from 2003/6/4
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf schrieb:
    > Krashan [...] shifted his interest a bit away from MorphOS [...]
    > (at least he has not completely departed).

    Really? I was under the impression he left MorphOS completely behind.


    I think he's currently inactive for MorphOS, but hasn't crahed and burned bridges and has not excluded another interest shift to MorphOS again. Dunno for sure, though.
    --
    http://www.via-altera.de

    Whenever you're sad just remember the world is 4.543 billion years old and you somehow managed to exist at the same time as David Bowie.
  • »31.08.17 - 20:59
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  • ASiegel
    Posts: 885 from 2003/2/15
    From: Central Europe
    Quote:

    polluks wrote:
    Let's make a compare:
    Outlook is not part of Windows.
    Outlook is an application, not an essential part of the OS.

    Since Windows Vista was released, Windows has included "Windows Mail" or "Windows Live Mail" as its native built-in email client. (Outlook is primarily targetted at business clients. Before "Windows Mail" was created, there was Outlook Express, which too came bundled with Windows.)

    MacOS has its own built-in email client, so does iOS, Android, etc.

    Quote:

    But MorphOS really needs a new email client?

    You bet.

    Quote:

    Let's replace "batch file" by ARexx and "PowerShell" by Lua. Eh?

    It is a huge fallacy to assume that a single developer working on a new email client would have been even remotely motivated to work on AREXX if work on the email client had never been started.

    If you would like to see a full reimplementation of AREXX on MorphOS, fair enough. But throwing shade on other unrelated development work is certainly not the way to do make that happen.
  • »31.08.17 - 21:11
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    polluks
    Posts: 294 from 2007/10/23
    From: Gelsenkirchen,...
    Indeed, I was a bit unfair.
    Quote:

    asrael22 schrieb:
    ...but the Apple one just integrates best into Calendar and in the system generally.


    That's a good point: Please tell a native MorphOS calendar application!

    @Krashan or his deputy
    Datatypes cannot stream. Reggae is smart. Aha.
    But OS3, OS4 and AROS have an animation datatype.
    Reggae: N/A
    Pegasos II G4: MorphOS 3.9, Zalman M220W
    Power Mac G3: OSX 10.3 · PowerBook 5,8: OSX 10.5, MorphOS 3.9
  • »31.08.17 - 22:11
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  • jPV
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    jPV
    Posts: 1299 from 2003/2/24
    From: po-RNO
    Quote:

    Zylesea wrote:
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf schrieb:
    > Krashan [...] shifted his interest a bit away from MorphOS [...]
    > (at least he has not completely departed).

    Really? I was under the impression he left MorphOS completely behind.


    I think he's currently inactive for MorphOS, but hasn't crahed and burned bridges and has not excluded another interest shift to MorphOS again. Dunno for sure, though.



    Yeah, his interests changed more to other things (68k HW development etc), but AFAIK he still has a MorphOS machine and source codes etc stored, so nothing should prevent to get activated again if his interests will change in the future :)
  • »01.09.17 - 09:40
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    TheMagicM
    Posts: 1103 from 2003/6/17
    Quote:

    jPV wrote:
    Yeah, his interests changed more to other things (68k HW development etc), but AFAIK he still has a MorphOS machine and source codes etc stored, so nothing should prevent to get activated again if his interests will change in the future :)



    He's a mercenary, waiting to be activated when he's called. We'll use the MorphOS light, like Batman, and shine it in the night sky and he'll come flying in.
  • »01.09.17 - 14:43
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    polluks
    Posts: 294 from 2007/10/23
    From: Gelsenkirchen,...
    @TheMagic
    I suppose your girlfriend loves this romantic kind of way :)
    Pegasos II G4: MorphOS 3.9, Zalman M220W
    Power Mac G3: OSX 10.3 · PowerBook 5,8: OSX 10.5, MorphOS 3.9
  • »01.09.17 - 20:07
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