The wait for 3.10 :(
  • Jim
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    Jim
    Posts: 4063 from 2009/1/28
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    Quote:

    asrael22 wrote:
    I just meant, there were some really nice ones (late 2005) PowerMac11,2 , Dual 2.3 GHz on eBay.
    But I remembered 7,3 is the last one supported (early 2005).


    Manfred


    It seems like an obvious step that the developers are dragging their feet on.
    Frank acknowledge that it could be done, but took me to task for quoting his time estimate as if it was statement that it would be done.
    Since then...we've heard nothing, and I'm still wondering if Frank is still pissed off about that.
    But...in case he is, I haven't brought it up with him, as I don't want to irritate the guy.
    Believe it or not, I actually DO selectively pick when to be annoying. ;-)

    AND, if I had to pick between focusing on an X64 shift or the support of new PPC hardware, I'd be hard pressed to justify the later.
    Sure, PCIe G5s would be nice, BUT they are 12 years old.

    I'd rather have an SMP enabled MorphOS running on a Ryzen CPU.
    "Magnetic was troubled by my avatars and 'satanic' references" - Jim Igou

    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »26.07.17 - 22:09
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    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2378 from 2003/2/24
    Quote:

    geit wrote:

    It just means the update is huge and not just eye candy and three bugfixes. :D


    I could use some huge candy and eye fixes...

    ;-)
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »26.07.17 - 23:01
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    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2378 from 2003/2/24
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:

    But, since the next release should bring X5000 support, releasing PCIe G5 support might eat into the market for that


    MorphOS is not in the HW business at all so there won't be any Cannibalization. An OS sale for G5 or a sale for X5000 doesn't matter (presumed they have the same price). It's still an OS copy sold.
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »26.07.17 - 23:34
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  • Jim
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    Quote:

    takemehomegrandma wrote:
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:

    But, since the next release should bring X5000 support, releasing PCIe G5 support might eat into the market for that


    MorphOS is not in the HW business at all so there won't be any Cannibalization. An OS sale for G5 or a sale for X5000 doesn't matter (presumed they have the same price). It's still an OS copy sold.


    My thoughts exactly. I guess it depends on how you feel about Aeon and Trevor Dickensen. But as we aren't tied to that enterprise, like the OS4 community is, our primary concern ought to be our users.
    "Magnetic was troubled by my avatars and 'satanic' references" - Jim Igou

    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »27.07.17 - 01:37
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    asrael22
    Posts: 205 from 2014/6/11
    From: Germany
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:
    Quote:

    asrael22 wrote:
    I just meant, there were some really nice ones (late 2005) PowerMac11,2 , Dual 2.3 GHz on eBay.
    But I remembered 7,3 is the last one supported (early 2005).


    Manfred


    AND, if I had to pick between focusing on an X64 shift or the support of new PPC hardware, I'd be hard pressed to justify the later.
    Sure, PCIe G5s would be nice, BUT they are 12 years old.

    I'd rather have an SMP enabled MorphOS running on a Ryzen CPU.


    Certainly.
    This would also attract more people if MorphOS runs on fast, recent x86_64 hardware.
    I'll restrain myself from buying new hardware until 3.10 is out. :)

    Manfred
  • »27.07.17 - 08:04
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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
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    jdryyz
    Posts: 125 from 2004/4/9
    From: Torrance, CA USA
    At the risk of being redundant, I would like to add that seeing MorphOS on a PowerMac 11,2 would be really awesome, even if only one of my two cores is supported. :)





    [ Edited by jdryyz 05.08.2017 - 14:39 ]
  • »30.07.17 - 03:50
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  • Jim
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    Quote:

    jdryyz wrote:
    At the risk of being redundant, I would like to add that seeing MorphOS on a PowerMac 11,2 would be really awesome, even if only one of my the two cores is supported. :)






    I'm beginning to think this might not happen (at least not any time soon).
    After talking to a couple of developers, the sentiment I get back is that we already support too many platforms, and that adding another would require time that they would prefer to devote to other tasks.

    As such, I'm buying parts with an eye toward putting together an X5000.
    I already have a Radeon HD 6870 (and I may buy a Radeon HD 4870 to see if compositing make the sacrifice in performance worthwhile), I'm also looking for sound cards (although I should be able to use a SoundBlaster Live card).

    I already have a Quad 2.5 G5, so its a bit frustrating having to go this route, but in the long run the hardware will have some advantages (like being compatible with GCN video cards).
    "Magnetic was troubled by my avatars and 'satanic' references" - Jim Igou

    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »30.07.17 - 19:01
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
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    SoundSquare
    Posts: 1187 from 2004/12/1
    From: Paris, France
    No matter how amazing the next update might be, i fail to see how it could revive the interest in MorphOS beyond the few hardcore fan/users left. I followed and used MorphOS myself from 2004 to 2015, but the waiting time between versions and very slow progress got rid of my enthusiasm for the OS. I still check the forum threads here from time to time in case something would happen but even if it happens tomorrow i have to be realistic, i won't power my MorphOS machine anymore.

    I wish the very best to the MorphOS community and developers, it's been a fantastic time i had with the OS and all of you.

    cheers.
  • »01.08.17 - 09:15
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  • jPV
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    jPV
    Posts: 1279 from 2003/2/24
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    I don't quite understand why interest to certain OS should depend that much of the OS updates. MorphOS, for example, is in a pretty good shape already and 3.9 is a pretty solid release. Nothing prevents people enjoying it and doing things with it. New updates don't do miracles in that regard IMHO. It's a bit sad if people just wait for new updates, play around little, and then forget it again, but don't have enough interest to actually use the system or be even productive. Most of the complainers haven't probably even digged the depths of the OS to find all the nice things in it. I guess there would still be much to explore. It should be overally appealing to use the system and not just be some curiosity and complaining about the updates....
  • »01.08.17 - 09:50
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    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2378 from 2003/2/24
    Quote:

    jPV wrote:
    I don't quite understand why interest to certain OS should depend that much of the OS updates. MorphOS, for example, is in a pretty good shape already and 3.9 is a pretty solid release. Nothing prevents people enjoying it and doing things with it. New updates don't do miracles in that regard IMHO. It's a bit sad if people just wait for new updates, play around little, and then forget it again, but don't have enough interest to actually use the system or be even productive. Most of the complainers haven't probably even digged the depths of the OS to find all the nice things in it. I guess there would still be much to explore. It should be overally appealing to use the system and not just be some curiosity and complaining about the updates....



    IMHO it's about sending signals of a future. If there is no sign of a future, then why bother? The "silent treatment" for 2-3 years doesn't help this. And there is no real info on the post-PPC developments either.

    Some communication could help a lot!

    Are there anyone still there actually doing development? About when (no promises on exact date, but like "this summer", "this fall", "this winter", etc) can an update be expected?

    What's happening on the post-PPC front?
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »01.08.17 - 11:10
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  • jPV
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
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    jPV
    Posts: 1279 from 2003/2/24
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    Quote:

    takemehomegrandma wrote:
    Quote:

    jPV wrote:
    I don't quite understand why interest to certain OS should depend that much of the OS updates. MorphOS, for example, is in a pretty good shape already and 3.9 is a pretty solid release. Nothing prevents people enjoying it and doing things with it. New updates don't do miracles in that regard IMHO. It's a bit sad if people just wait for new updates, play around little, and then forget it again, but don't have enough interest to actually use the system or be even productive. Most of the complainers haven't probably even digged the depths of the OS to find all the nice things in it. I guess there would still be much to explore. It should be overally appealing to use the system and not just be some curiosity and complaining about the updates....



    IMHO it's about sending signals of a future. If there is no sign of a future, then why bother? The "silent treatment" for 2-3 years doesn't help this. And there is no real info on the post-PPC developments either.

    Some communication could help a lot!

    Are there anyone still there actually doing development? About when (no promises on exact date, but like "this summer", "this fall", "this winter", etc) can an update be expected?

    What's happening on the post-PPC front?


    Many developers have been telling that "don't worry, it's coming". Some have even told what they have fixed etc. I wouldn't call that silence either. We've also heard all kinds of things what the future release will contain, and also about some difficulties developers have been facing etc. I don't think anyone thinks (or should think) that there won't be new versions.
  • »01.08.17 - 11:39
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    asrael22
    Posts: 205 from 2014/6/11
    From: Germany
    Quote:

    takemehomegrandma wrote:
    Quote:

    jPV wrote:
    I don't quite understand why interest to certain OS should depend that much of the OS updates. MorphOS, for example, is in a pretty good shape already and 3.9 is a pretty solid release. Nothing prevents people enjoying it and doing things with it. New updates don't do miracles in that regard IMHO. It's a bit sad if people just wait for new updates, play around little, and then forget it again, but don't have enough interest to actually use the system or be even productive. Most of the complainers haven't probably even digged the depths of the OS to find all the nice things in it. I guess there would still be much to explore. It should be overally appealing to use the system and not just be some curiosity and complaining about the updates....



    IMHO it's about sending signals of a future. If there is no sign of a future, then why bother? The "silent treatment" for 2-3 years doesn't help this. And there is no real info on the post-PPC developments either.

    Some communication could help a lot!

    Are there anyone still there actually doing development? About when (no promises on exact date, but like "this summer", "this fall", "this winter", etc) can an update be expected?

    What's happening on the post-PPC front?


    Yep, I second that.
    Communication helps. It bind people more together.

    Timeframes don't need to be accurate and can certainly be postponed. If it's not ready it's not ready.
    But communicating what can be expected would be great.


    Manfred

    [ Edited by asrael22 01.08.2017 - 12:43 ]
  • »01.08.17 - 11:42
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9108 from 2003/5/22
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    > Are there anyone still there actually doing development?

    Jim is reporting here and on other forums on his correspondence with Bigfoot regarding Bigfoot's advances in graphics driver development ad nauseam. Doesn't that qualify? :-)
  • »01.08.17 - 12:20
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
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    TheMagicM
    Posts: 1062 from 2003/6/17
    Quote:

    takemehomegrandma wrote:
    Some communication could help a lot!



    I like the way Haiku does their updates. Right on the main page you'll see a "Whats new in Development" etc. That gives you something to look forward to/keeps users updated.

    To me, when I dont see updates on MorphOS, I dont really care much because I dont expect anything. There's nothing to get excited over. A post above or so above said something about Jim saying some graphics thing is updated. I wouldnt have known that unless I happened to stumble upon it. There isn't a central location of whats really going on.

    What I have now I expect to be the last version so if a new one comes out, cool. If not, cool, what I have works for what I need. I'm good with what I have.
  • »01.08.17 - 12:58
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  • Leo
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    Posts: 387 from 2003/8/18
    Quote:


    I don't quite understand why interest to certain OS should depend that much of the OS updates. MorphOS, for example, is in a pretty good shape already and 3.9 is a pretty solid release.


    For myself, MorphOS was supposed to be the path for a brand new modern OS, with modern features: memory protection, multi core, 64bit, portability, etc...

    That's what made me excited about it when I used it. And that's what I was waiting for. I didn't want it to compte with OSX, Windows, Linux. No, I just wanted to use a new modern OS with that Amiga feeling.

    I know it takes time, but every step in this direction made me interested.

    Time passed, and it seemed it wasn't the priority anymore and the focus shifted to improve ABox instead of working on Qbox (or whatever it was called). Using an OS with the same limitations as AmigaOS wasn't interesting to me. Although I have to admit they did a really good job at modernizing it.

    Communicating helps people get excited, interested, passionate, etc Having to dig the forum to learn some very specific things about the new version isn't what I would call "communicating".

    As it was said above, there's no need to be precise, and deadlines are meant to be pushed back, so no problem with that. Nobody asks for a regular blog post every two months. But no official blog post in two years, that's a long time.

    Anyway, that was my two cents. Like SoundSquare, I also come here from time to time, hopping to here about a new release. And reading the release notes, yes, I love that :)
    Nothing hurts a project more than developers not taking the time to let their community know what is going on.
  • »01.08.17 - 13:44
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    asrael22
    Posts: 205 from 2014/6/11
    From: Germany
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > no official blog post in two years

    Last two years saw two official press releases: http://www.morphos-team.net/news


    I'm not sure if that qualifies.

    On Amiga-News there is a weekly AROS update. Who did what etc.
    I wouldn't expect that on a weekly basis for MorphOS. But maybe monthly?
    It keeps up the interest. That's why it is done for AROS.


    Manfred
  • »01.08.17 - 15:33
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
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    TheMagicM
    Posts: 1062 from 2003/6/17
    Quote:

    asrael22 wrote:


    On Amiga-News there is a weekly AROS update. Who did what etc.
    I wouldn't expect that on a weekly basis for MorphOS. But maybe monthly?
    It keeps up the interest. That's why it is done for AROS.


    Manfred


    +1
  • »01.08.17 - 17:14
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9108 from 2003/5/22
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    >>> no official blog post in two years

    >> Last two years saw two official press releases: [...]

    > I'm not sure if that qualifies.

    Sure, press releases are not blog posts, but I usually value press releases way higher than blog posts. Taking "no official blog post in two years" as evidence of non-development or non-communication when there were two official press releases about SDK updates instead seems weird to me.

    > On Amiga-News there is a weekly AROS update.

    It's not really weekly on amiga-news.de, but it is on aros-exec.org ;-)
  • »01.08.17 - 17:22
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  • Leo
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    Quote:


    Sure, press releases are not blog posts, but I usually value press releases way higher than blog posts. Taking "no official blog post in two years" as evidence of non-development or non-communication when there were two official press releases about SDK updates instead seems weird to me.


    Ok, I'm sorry: there has been two paragraphs to announce the availability of the MorphOS SDK 3.10. I was wrong, and that's exactly what people asked for...

    We can now close this thread.

    By the way, I never said nor meant there had been no development in two years. I just wrote there had been no official communication on the next MorphOS version. These two press releases don't tell anything about what's expected in MorphOS 3.10. Of course they prove something's beeing worked on, but I never said nothing was.
    Nothing hurts a project more than developers not taking the time to let their community know what is going on.
  • »01.08.17 - 17:43
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
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    TheMagicM
    Posts: 1062 from 2003/6/17
    Quote:

    Leo wrote:

    Ok, I'm sorry: there has been two paragraphs to announce the availability of the MorphOS SDK 3.10. I was wrong, and that's exactly what people asked for...



    Well, you did miss out on the "ls" command update. It was re-written and now displays directory contents at an alarming speed. Small bug in the code consumes 100% cpu for a split second but in a blink of an eye, your dir contents are right there. Its being submitted for (c) as nothing has ever displayed directory contents this fast on any system ever developed. Ever.

    UPDATE: Just found out that the "ls" command needs to be slowed down. A for-loop is being written to count to 1 billion to slow down the system, then exit, displaying your contents. Its the bug I was talking about. So its put in place to slow down displaying contents quickly, but adverse affect, consumes CPU time.

    [ Edited by TheMagicM 01.08.2017 - 12:28 ]
  • »01.08.17 - 18:24
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9108 from 2003/5/22
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    >> Taking "no official blog post in two years" as evidence of non-development
    >> or non-communication when there were two official press releases about
    >> SDK updates instead seems weird to me.

    > there has been two paragraphs to announce the availability of the MorphOS SDK 3.10.

    ...as well as a press release announcing an update to that SDK some months later.

    > I never said nor meant there had been no development in two years. I just
    > wrote there had been no official communication on the next MorphOS version.

    Yes, that's exactly what I referred to by "non-communication".

    > These two press releases don't tell anything about what's expected in MorphOS 3.10.

    I guess it's named "SDK 3.10" for a reason, and I believe that at least to developers (which I'm not), changes from SDK 3.9 to 3.10 (which the press release does not mention completely) may reveal one or two things about internal changes from MorphOS 3.9 to 3.10. Just a guess.
  • »01.08.17 - 19:57
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
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    Zylesea
    Posts: 1756 from 2003/6/4
    While I also wouldn't mind a few blog posts about progress it is not the case the public would not get informed at all: Current MorphOS gets shown on meetings and shows. A lot about 3.10 is known already and it's more than clear development is ongoing.

    But I second that a bit more information about development of what and from whom would be nice. Especially from some of the very core developers: Laire, CYFM - long time no hear about them. CYFM used to post here from time to time, Laire was a user of the bunny - but as we all know this went down the drain... But is Laire still active in development, is he still the main maintainer? Guess so, but the silence is pretty ear blasting...

    Anyway. MorphOS runs and still provides fun and I think since about 10 years or so we all have no illusions it will not become widespread and take over the world. But I still think MorphOS - even on oly ppc macs - holds potential for a bit more users ( a few thousand) if it would get at least a bit more active promotion.

    Long, long time ago MorphOS team announced the no more broken dreams slogan. That was very good back tten and nobody wants a "two more weeks", on "schedule and rocking" or other crap when there is not much material, but time moved on. A bit more announcing, promising and rolling the drums would be pretty okay IMHO.

    Let' s rock it!
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  • »01.08.17 - 22:28
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9108 from 2003/5/22
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    > [...] CYFM - long time no hear about them. CYFM used to post here from time to time

    Latest post was 10 weeks ago. Nothing to worry about I'd say :-)

    > we all have no illusions it will not become widespread and take over the world.

    ;-)
  • »01.08.17 - 23:23
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