OS...ugh...X
  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4297 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    While installing Ubuntu Mate to my G4 PowerMac today, I ran across one of my old OSX boot drives.
    320 GB (pretty much the max for PATA drives), ATA133, fairly top of the line for the time it was current, so hey...why not reinstall it for old times sake?

    OMG! Even with dual 1.42 GHz processors does that operating system suck compared to MorphOS (which obviously doesn't even use the full power of the cpus).

    How did anyone put up with something so laggy and deathly slow?

    Which makes me wonder this, why aren't we taking MorphOS a bit more seriously.

    Hobbyist OS? Does it DO what an OS is supposed to do, and does it do it fairly well?
    On a comparison basis, I'll take it over OSX on PPC hardware.

    So, once we move to X64 hardware, instead of focusing on Amiga related 'hobbyist' users, you think we might take things slightly more...(ah, hell, can't think of a better word)...seriously?

    Because I still feel there's a place for a light,fast, micro kernel based operating system that has the responsive feel our current OS has (but on even better, faster hardware).
    "Magnetic was troubled by my avatars and 'satanic' references" - Jim Igou

    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »25.06.17 - 00:14
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9331 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > 320 GB (pretty much the max for PATA drives)

    There are PATA HDDs with 400 GB (Samsung), 500 GB (HGST, WD) or 750 GB (Seagate) still for sale.
  • »25.06.17 - 10:06
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  • Moderator
    Kronos
    Posts: 1679 from 2003/2/24
    320GB is/was the biggest ever made in 2.5".

    So he should have written "320 GB (pretty much the max for PATA drives that fits a Powerbook).

    @Jim
    "laggy and deathly slow", remember that this was current at a time when most people were still running WinXP, 10.5 must have felt like sweet heaven in comparison.
    There is also that rumor that Apple didn't optimize the PPC part of Leopard in order to make users switch to intel faster, something that most likely is also the reason why the Leopard-servicepack (aka SnowLeopard) never made it to PPC.

    Both Win and OSX got far less laggy today thanks to SSDs and HW several times faster than those 1.42GHz G4s, so you'd have a hard time convincing normal people that getting rid of an unnoticeable lag (in everyday light use) would be a good reason to go for a non-lagging platform that will struggle at lot of basic things.
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  • »25.06.17 - 11:45
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9331 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > he should have written "320 GB (pretty much the max for PATA drives that fits
    > a Powerbook).

    That statement would be true, but with questionable relevance for his PowerMac :-)
  • »25.06.17 - 12:15
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Korni
    Posts: 325 from 2006/2/23
    From: the Planet of ...
    Quote:

    Kronos wrote:
    "laggy and deathly slow", remember that this was current at a time when most people were still running WinXP, 10.5 must have felt like sweet heaven in comparison.


    10.5 on G5 2GHz does not feel faster at all compared to WinXP on Sempron 1.9GHz here. Of course MorphOS wipes them all ;).
    http://korni.ppa.pl/modkowypaczek/ | My Rifle, My Bunny, and Me
  • »25.06.17 - 12:31
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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Tom01
    Posts: 135 from 2009/9/20
    Strange.
    On my i7-4790K macOS 10.12 is much faster than Windows-8 or 10.
  • »25.06.17 - 20:20
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    amigadave
    Posts: 2459 from 2006/3/21
    From: Lake Shastina,...
    Quote:

    Tom01 wrote:
    Strange.
    On my i7-4790K macOS 10.12 is much faster than Windows-8 or 10.


    I'm not impressed by the speed of any version of Windows, and keep looking for ways to remove things, in hopes that I can speed it up a little, to make using Windows10 a little more bearable.

    Seriously thinking of going back to using MacOSX 10.6, or 10.7, on a 2.66GHz Core2Duo MacMini, for email and web browsing, to see how it compares to those tasks on my 2.6GHz i7 8 core laptop, running Windows10. I also wonder which system is more secure against viruses, and other online threats found while web browsing, or reading emails. I currently use Avast anti-virus software on my Windows10 systems, to help keep them safe, but often wonder how effective any of the most popular virus protection software suites really are.
    MorphOS - The best Next Gen Amiga choice.
  • »26.06.17 - 00:14
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4297 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > he should have written "320 GB (pretty much the max for PATA drives that fits
    > a Powerbook).

    That statement would be true, but with questionable relevance for his PowerMac :-)


    Actually, your point is taken, although I have swtched to 2.5 drives in a lot of hardware including desktops.
    But this is a 3.5" drive.

    As to Win10 and MacOS...

    I'm using Windows 10 of a couple of systems.
    There ARE some odd lags on systems with lower core counts.
    My dual core i7 (which supports four threads) doesn't seem to work as well as an older Phenom II X4, but that is probably due to the difference in clock speed (the Phenom being about 1GHZ faster AND has the advantage of a discreet graphics card).
    And I haven't upgraded from my FX-8370 to a Ryzen based system yet, but that runs very well.
    So, I think its really a matter of how much raw power a system provides.

    And, in a straight comparison, I still don't see much difference between MacOS and Windows in terms of performance, on similar hardware.


    [ Edited by Jim 26.06.2017 - 09:07 ]
    "Magnetic was troubled by my avatars and 'satanic' references" - Jim Igou

    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »26.06.17 - 12:58
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    TheMagicM
    Posts: 1105 from 2003/6/17
    @Jim:

    I think its the lack of software. I'm not talking Amiga OS legacy. While its "OK" to reminisce and use old software, its just dated, its limiting. Yes we have a large library of software at our disposal but nothing written to take advantage of MorphOS and the system its running on. Its like that previous thread about an office suite.

    I use MorphOS sparingly. I have other hobbies that are going on which take precedence over retro computing. I will say this though, MorphOS makes it easier for me to do retro computing if I want to play around with legacy Amiga software. Kinda disappointed because while I can code, theres alot going on to where it prohibits me from setting time aside to read stuff and play with for example, FPC or Hollywood.

    I dont know how the MorphOS Dev Team does it...dunno how they stay motivated to code. One day they will need to pass the torch to someone else and I hope that when that day comes someone will be there for the handoff...
  • »26.06.17 - 17:54
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4297 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    TheMagicM wrote:
    @Jim:

    I think its the lack of software. I'm not talking Amiga OS legacy. While its "OK" to reminisce and use old software, its just dated, its limiting. Yes we have a large library of software at our disposal but nothing written to take advantage of MorphOS and the system its running on. Its like that previous thread about an office suite.

    I use MorphOS sparingly. I have other hobbies that are going on which take precedence over retro computing. I will say this though, MorphOS makes it easier for me to do retro computing if I want to play around with legacy Amiga software. Kinda disappointed because while I can code, theres alot going on to where it prohibits me from setting time aside to read stuff and play with for example, FPC or Hollywood.

    I dont know how the MorphOS Dev Team does it...dunno how they stay motivated to code. One day they will need to pass the torch to someone else and I hope that when that day comes someone will be there for the handoff...



    THAT is a major stumbling block. I've discussed with others including Wiktor Glowacki (Pampers) and I rank it in importance above porting to new hardware or advancing the OS.
    And I don't have a lot of time to devote to learning something like Hollywood myself, plus I'm not that familiar with Amiga-like OS' or MUI.
    My programming skills are more in line with 68K assembly code and C.
    Not to mention that when I'm not working, or taking classes for my MBA, I've got a lot of other things eating up my time.

    But...I'd like to do more to encourage work on projects that run in MorphOS.
    "Magnetic was troubled by my avatars and 'satanic' references" - Jim Igou

    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »26.06.17 - 18:28
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9331 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > we have [...] nothing written to take advantage of MorphOS and the system its running on.

    Really? Nothing? Hard to believe.
  • »27.06.17 - 12:52
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4297 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > we have [...] nothing written to take advantage of MorphOS and the system its running on.

    Really? Nothing? Hard to believe.


    Slight exaggeration. I don't use a lot of 68K programs, and I still manage to have a few things I can do under MorphOS.
    I could always use more...
    "Magnetic was troubled by my avatars and 'satanic' references" - Jim Igou

    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »27.06.17 - 19:42
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Zylesea
    Posts: 1797 from 2003/6/4
    Quote:

    Jim schrieb:

    And I don't have a lot of time to devote to learning something like Hollywood myself, plus I'm not that familiar with Amiga-like OS' or MUI.



    As far as it concerns Hollywood and MUI - you don't need much pre-knowledge. For MUIRoyale or RapaGUI it's just writing XML layouts. Rather easy. A program like .Exutil, is 70 lines of xml for the gui and a few hundred lines for the actual code (not much optimzed but rather written down to just work) . Nevertheless it's of course quite a bit of work to actually make even such a small programm (which in this case was primarily a training project o learn RapaGUI).

    My major issue is that I don't have many good ideas for rather small sized projects to work on (still there are two projects waiting for completition). Ultimate webbrowser, rocking office suite, funky game, all fine, but quite some work for a non professional single programmer. In fact absolutely unrealistic projects for contributors like myself (focused on Hollywood and not too much time at disposal). But if you Morphers out there have ideas for rather small projects, bring them on. I am happy if I get good ideas and eventually something may come to fruitition

    [ Editiert durch Zylesea 28.06.2017 - 00:54 ]
    --
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  • »27.06.17 - 22:49
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    amigadave
    Posts: 2459 from 2006/3/21
    From: Lake Shastina,...
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:
    Quote:

    TheMagicM wrote:
    @Jim:

    I think its the lack of software. I'm not talking Amiga OS legacy. While its "OK" to reminisce and use old software, its just dated, its limiting. Yes we have a large library of software at our disposal but nothing written to take advantage of MorphOS and the system its running on. Its like that previous thread about an office suite.

    I use MorphOS sparingly. I have other hobbies that are going on which take precedence over retro computing. I will say this though, MorphOS makes it easier for me to do retro computing if I want to play around with legacy Amiga software. Kinda disappointed because while I can code, theres alot going on to where it prohibits me from setting time aside to read stuff and play with for example, FPC or Hollywood.

    I dont know how the MorphOS Dev Team does it...dunno how they stay motivated to code. One day they will need to pass the torch to someone else and I hope that when that day comes someone will be there for the handoff...



    THAT is a major stumbling block. I've discussed with others including Wiktor Glowacki (Pampers) and I rank it in importance above porting to new hardware or advancing the OS.
    And I don't have a lot of time to devote to learning something like Hollywood myself, plus I'm not that familiar with Amiga-like OS' or MUI.
    My programming skills are more in line with 68K assembly code and C.
    Not to mention that when I'm not working, or taking classes for my MBA, I've got a lot of other things eating up my time.

    But...I'd like to do more to encourage work on projects that run in MorphOS.



    I've been asking this question, or similar questions for years. How is any of the great knowledge and expertise from dozens or hundreds of existing and former Amiga and MorphOS programmers and hardware hackers being transferred to new users. This lack of documenting and saving existing knowledge and expertise, and lack of teaching newer and younger users that knowledge, is probably the most serious threat to the longevity of our platform. It is certain that we are losing talented people with knowledge and expertise much faster than we are gaining new users that have the desire and talent to learn the skills needed to plug the hole that is the "knowledge and expertise drain", from our community.

    Unfortunately, the members of our community that do 95% or more of the coding and inventing work, are also the busiest and have the least time and desire to spend trying to teach new users, or writing detailed documentation, so their knowledge can be passed on to later users, programmers, and hardware designers.


    [ Edited by amigadave 27.06.2017 - 16:34 ]
    MorphOS - The best Next Gen Amiga choice.
  • »27.06.17 - 23:30
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Intuition
    Posts: 888 from 2013/5/24
    From: Englistan
    Quote:

    amigadave wrote:
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:
    Quote:

    TheMagicM wrote:
    @Jim:

    I think its the lack of software. I'm not talking Amiga OS legacy. While its "OK" to reminisce and use old software, its just dated, its limiting. Yes we have a large library of software at our disposal but nothing written to take advantage of MorphOS and the system its running on. Its like that previous thread about an office suite.

    I use MorphOS sparingly. I have other hobbies that are going on which take precedence over retro computing. I will say this though, MorphOS makes it easier for me to do retro computing if I want to play around with legacy Amiga software. Kinda disappointed because while I can code, theres alot going on to where it prohibits me from setting time aside to read stuff and play with for example, FPC or Hollywood.

    I dont know how the MorphOS Dev Team does it...dunno how they stay motivated to code. One day they will need to pass the torch to someone else and I hope that when that day comes someone will be there for the handoff...



    THAT is a major stumbling block. I've discussed with others including Wiktor Glowacki (Pampers) and I rank it in importance above porting to new hardware or advancing the OS.
    And I don't have a lot of time to devote to learning something like Hollywood myself, plus I'm not that familiar with Amiga-like OS' or MUI.
    My programming skills are more in line with 68K assembly code and C.
    Not to mention that when I'm not working, or taking classes for my MBA, I've got a lot of other things eating up my time.

    But...I'd like to do more to encourage work on projects that run in MorphOS.



    I've been asking this question, or similar questions for years. How is any of the great knowledge and expertise from dozens or hundreds of existing and former Amiga and MorphOS programmers and hardware hackers being transferred to new users. This lack of documenting and saving existing knowledge and expertise, and lack of teaching newer and younger users that knowledge, is probably the most serious threat to the longevity of our platform. It is certain that we are losing talented people with knowledge and expertise much faster than we are gaining new users that have the desire and talent to learn the skills needed to plug the hole that is the "knowledge and expertise drain", from our community.

    Unfortunately, the members of our community that do 95% or more of the coding and inventing work, are also the busiest and have the least time and desire to spend trying to teach new users, or writing detailed documentation, so their knowledge can be passed on to later users, programmers, and hardware designers.



    Anyone who wants to learn can do it the way everyone else did, read the RKRM's and get stuck in.

    There's nothing really attractive to young people in the OS or it's API's compared to modern technology and the low level bit-banging fun that the original Amiga hardware offers isn't there on the NG machines.
    1.67GHz 15" PowerBook G4, 1GB RAM, 128MB Radeon 9700M Pro, 64GB SSD, MorphOS 3.9

    2.7GHz DP G5, 4GB RAM, 512MB Radeon X1950 Pro, OSX 10.5.8, 500GB SSHD, MorphOS 3.9
  • »28.06.17 - 00:14
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4297 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    "bit banging fun', huh?

    I actually was never an advocate of directly addressing hardware as my own 68K machines ran under Microware OS-9.
    I like using drivers to connect to hardware.

    In a way, I'm more comfortable with MorphOS than Amiga because of that.
    A good micro kernel based OS with API system calls to handle hardware interaction.

    Hard coding to specific locations really screws with portability, adaptability to new hardware, expansion, and the general evolution of the hardware platform.

    Amigas, if they still existed, would be nothing like their legacy counterparts, and the OS would have continued to evolve fully eliminating that 'fun'.
    "Magnetic was troubled by my avatars and 'satanic' references" - Jim Igou

    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »29.06.17 - 19:54
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