Power Mac G4 Cube not working well
  • Moderator
    Kronos
    Posts: 1641 from 2003/2/24
    At that resolution it should be the 22".
    I do have the same and it works with no problem on an Radeon9000. Remember that these units only support their native res, anything else won't be scaled up or shown at all.
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  • »08.06.17 - 07:58
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
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    koszer
    Posts: 603 from 2004/2/8
    From: Poland
    Quote:

    Kronos wrote:
    At that resolution it should be the 22"


    Nope. 22" is 1600x1024, 20" is 1680x1050 and 23" - 1920x1200 (i have all three).
  • »08.06.17 - 09:43
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  • Caterpillar
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    lsitongia
    Posts: 28 from 2017/5/27
    From: Colorado, USA
    Quote:

    Kronos wrote:
    At that resolution it should be the 22".
    I do have the same and it works with no problem on an Radeon9000. Remember that these units only support their native res, anything else won't be scaled up or shown at all.


    I tried a Radeon 9000 Pro in my Cube and it wouldn't fit - too tall. You've modified your Cube? Or is there a non-Pro version that fits?
    Power Mac G4 Cube, MorphOS with Style!
  • »08.06.17 - 13:55
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  • Caterpillar
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    lsitongia
    Posts: 28 from 2017/5/27
    From: Colorado, USA
    Quote:

    koszer wrote:

    Nope. 22" is 1600x1024, 20" is 1680x1050 and 23" - 1920x1200 (i have all three).




    Which video board do you have with the 20"? If it's the stock ATI Rage 128 Pro in a Cube, which Cube firmware do you have?

    So, you all think I should be able to use my 20" Cinema Display on my 450MHz Cube with the ATI Rage 128 Pro? That's reassuring. I'll keep working on it. Thanks!
    Power Mac G4 Cube, MorphOS with Style!
  • »08.06.17 - 14:01
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  • Caterpillar
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    lsitongia
    Posts: 28 from 2017/5/27
    From: Colorado, USA
    Here's where this stands right now:

    The only way I can get the Apple Cinema Display 20" ADC to work with the 450MHz Cube is when I boot the Apple Hardware Test CD.

    It's odd that the official Apple Cube Software Install CD boot-up doesn't work with the Cinema connected, but it works with a Samsung LCD display connected.

    When I boot the Software Install CD with the Samsung display connected, which is OS9, the internal disk (which is the stock 20GB hard drive with MOS installed) doesn't show up. Not in Drive Setup or Drive First Aid programs. Does being formatted for MOS cause OS9 to not be able to see it?

    All tests pass under the Apple Hardware Test. As far as I can tell, that does not test the disk drive. However, I was able to install MOS a couple of weeks ago and prior to that I was running NetBSD. I think the disk drive is okay. MOS looks good on the Cube with the Samsung display connected.

    The current firmware showing in the Hardware Tests profile tab is 4.1.3f2. I don't have any way of updating this without being able to install OS9 on the disk.
    Power Mac G4 Cube, MorphOS with Style!
  • »08.06.17 - 14:52
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    koszer
    Posts: 603 from 2004/2/8
    From: Poland
    Quote:

    lsitongia wrote:

    Which video board do you have with the 20"? If it's the stock ATI Rage 128 Pro in a Cube, which Cube firmware do you have?



    I'm afraid I only have Apple Cinema Displays, no Apple Cube (although it's a nice machine and if I could get it in good money - why not?), but the displays gave me no trouble running with PowerMac G5 and Radeon 9600 / 9600 Pro / 9650 / 9800 Pro / X850XT.

    You connect your Cinema Display through ADC, right?
    You could try this trick: Boot into MorphOS (on Samsung monitor), then delete the SYS:Prefs/Presets/Monitors prefs files (then power off, hook up the Cinema Display then power on again), or eventually delete/rename SYS:Morphos/Libs/ddc.library.

    No idea why MacOS fails to initialize the screen though...

    ...or...

    ...I've just stumbled upon an Apple forum that says the 20" Cinema Display doesn't support the Rage 128. It says the 22" model works OK, but not the 20"... You can find the thread here.
  • »08.06.17 - 15:33
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  • Caterpillar
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    lsitongia
    Posts: 28 from 2017/5/27
    From: Colorado, USA
    Argh!!!

    Thanks for that link, koszer! :-)

    Well, back to the video card game...
    Power Mac G4 Cube, MorphOS with Style!
  • »08.06.17 - 20:51
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Jim
    Posts: 4026 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    lsitongia wrote:
    Argh!!!

    Thanks for that link, koszer! :-)

    Well, back to the video card game...


    I thought you were upgrading the video card?
    An Apple Radeon 9000 would drive that monitor.
    And they are cheap.
    "Fiery the angels rose, and as they rose deep thunder roll'd / Around their shores: indignant burning with the fires of Orc."

    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »08.06.17 - 20:59
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  • Caterpillar
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    lsitongia
    Posts: 28 from 2017/5/27
    From: Colorado, USA
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:

    I thought you were upgrading the video card?
    An Apple Radeon 9000 would drive that monitor.
    And they are cheap.


    I tried one from Amazon turns out it's sold by DV Warehouse. I couldn't get them to pin down if it's a "9000" or "9000 Pro". It's too high (the length from the bus fingers to the top of the card). I found a website describing how to modify the inside of the Cube with a kit someone sold. I don't want to do that. So, I had to return it. I was surprised it didn't fit. Some sites say it fits without modification. So, is that the difference between the "9000" and the "9000 Pro"?

    Now I'm looking for an official "32MB Nvidia GeForce2 MX". I see one in Ebay, but it has the PCI slot motherboard backplane slot metal piece common for PC boxes. I had a Power Mac 7000 (or was it a 7200 - something like that) which had slots like that. Nice expandability. The Cube doesn't take those. The Radeon 9000 I got was like that. I removed that metal mounting plate and besides being too tall to fit in the Cube, the connectors were arranged differently than the ATI Rage 128 Pro, so I couldn't use the mounting plate from the Rage.

    It appears that special card versions were made for Apple. I think it's going to be hard to find the exact one to fit into the Cube.
    Power Mac G4 Cube, MorphOS with Style!
  • »08.06.17 - 21:31
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  • Jim
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    Jim
    Posts: 4026 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    lsitongia wrote:
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:

    I thought you were upgrading the video card?
    An Apple Radeon 9000 would drive that monitor.
    And they are cheap.


    I tried one from Amazon turns out it's sold by DV Warehouse. I couldn't get them to pin down if it's a "9000" or "9000 Pro". It's too high (the length from the bus fingers to the top of the card). I found a website describing how to modify the inside of the Cube with a kit someone sold. I don't want to do that. So, I had to return it. I was surprised it didn't fit. Some sites say it fits without modification. So, is that the difference between the "9000" and the "9000 Pro"?

    Now I'm looking for an official "32MB Nvidia GeForce2 MX". I see one in Ebay, but it has the PCI slot motherboard backplane slot metal piece common for PC boxes. I had a Power Mac 7000 (or was it a 7200 - something like that) which had slots like that. Nice expandability. The Cube doesn't take those. The Radeon 9000 I got was like that. I removed that metal mounting plate and besides being too tall to fit in the Cube, the connectors were arranged differently than the ATI Rage 128 Pro, so I couldn't use the mounting plate from the Rage.

    It appears that special card versions were made for Apple. I think it's going to be hard to find the exact one to fit into the Cube.


    OK, sound like a problem, but the Geforce card will not work under MorphOS, only OSX.

    Here is a page listing a modification you can make in order to use taller cards, it involves relocating the system's voltage regulator.

    http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/systems/cube/CUBE_8500_MODS/cube_8500_mods.html

    [ Edited by Jim 08.06.2017 - 16:54 ]
    "Fiery the angels rose, and as they rose deep thunder roll'd / Around their shores: indignant burning with the fires of Orc."

    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »08.06.17 - 21:46
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  • Order of the Butterfly
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    defender
    Posts: 208 from 2011/4/24
    There is no nvidia driver for morphos!
    PowerMac 3.6 - Radeon 9000_64Mb - 1,5Gb Ram - SB Live - MorphOS 3.9
    CD32 - PowerBook 1,67GHz 1GB/100GB - MorphOS 3 reg. 1455
  • »08.06.17 - 21:48
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  • Caterpillar
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    lsitongia
    Posts: 28 from 2017/5/27
    From: Colorado, USA
    Quote:

    defender wrote:
    There is no nvidia driver for morphos!



    Oh, okay. Sounds like the best thing for me to do is find precisely the right Radeon 9000 that will fit in a Cube. Which one is that? Whew!
    Power Mac G4 Cube, MorphOS with Style!
  • »08.06.17 - 21:51
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  • Caterpillar
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    lsitongia
    Posts: 28 from 2017/5/27
    From: Colorado, USA
    Here's what one website once upon a time said:

    New for 2004: The PowerLogix PowerCube Enclosure is the solution you've been waiting for. Now you can install video cards like the Radeon 9000 which are too tall and run too hot to install safely in the normal enclosure.
    Power Mac G4 Cube, MorphOS with Style!
  • »08.06.17 - 21:58
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  • Caterpillar
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    lsitongia
    Posts: 28 from 2017/5/27
    From: Colorado, USA
    The link koszer gave above has someone recommending a Radeon 7500:

    FWIW, I've been very happy with the Radeon 7500 (ADC) upgrade in my Cube. These cards can be installed with no modification, except for the removal of the gate bracket, which you really don't need.

    But, what is the "gate bracket"?
    Power Mac G4 Cube, MorphOS with Style!
  • »08.06.17 - 22:01
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  • Caterpillar
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    lsitongia
    Posts: 28 from 2017/5/27
    From: Colorado, USA
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:

    Here is a page listing a modification you can make in order to use taller cards, it involves relocating the system's voltage regulator.

    http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/systems/cube/CUBE_8500_MODS/cube_8500_mods.html


    Whew! That would be a challenge for me. I've hacked hardware and taken a Dremel to stuff, but that one looks hard to accomplish.
    Power Mac G4 Cube, MorphOS with Style!
  • »08.06.17 - 22:11
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  • Jim
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    Jim
    Posts: 4026 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    lsitongia wrote:
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:

    Here is a page listing a modification you can make in order to use taller cards, it involves relocating the system's voltage regulator.

    http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/systems/cube/CUBE_8500_MODS/cube_8500_mods.html


    Whew! That would be a challenge for me. I've hacked hardware and taken a Dremel to stuff, but that one looks hard to accomplish.


    I didn't look like fun to me either.
    But I've done some PITA hacks before.

    The only other option I know of that fits without hacking are the 16mb Radeon cards (I think they were 7000s) that were optional in the cube.

    And they only have W3D acceleration (although that would still be better than a Rage128).

    OR, if you were just close to me, I'd give you a G4 PowerMac (I have a spare).

    Its your call as to how persistent you want to be.
    I've managed to get a FireGL X3 running in a G4 before (although I really have to thank Mark and Frank for adding that to the R400 driver), only now I just use a 9600.

    BTW - I don't think anyone has suggested that (a 9600), but you might be able to get one of those to work (again with similar size issues, compounded by the fact that many 9600s are not G4 compatible).
    BUT, it leaves ME thinking I'd like to try it.
    "Fiery the angels rose, and as they rose deep thunder roll'd / Around their shores: indignant burning with the fires of Orc."

    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »09.06.17 - 00:44
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Jim
    Posts: 4026 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    lsitongia wrote:
    The link koszer gave above has someone recommending a Radeon 7500:

    FWIW, I've been very happy with the Radeon 7500 (ADC) upgrade in my Cube. These cards can be installed with no modification, except for the removal of the gate bracket, which you really don't need.

    But, what is the "gate bracket"?


    "Gate bracket"? No doubt a reference to the metal bracket that the card has to hold it to the case.

    Here's a listing for a 32mb Radeon 7000 that could be modified that way. Its easy.

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Apple-Mac-G4-G5-Cube-Mac-ATI-Radeon-7000-32MB-AGP-VGA-Graphics-Video-Card-/251126702780

    The R100 is fairly slow, but when it was new it still dusted the Rage128 (and I had the fastest Rage128 card you could buy).
    "Fiery the angels rose, and as they rose deep thunder roll'd / Around their shores: indignant burning with the fires of Orc."

    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »09.06.17 - 00:53
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  • Caterpillar
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    lsitongia
    Posts: 28 from 2017/5/27
    From: Colorado, USA
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:

    "Gate bracket"? No doubt a reference to the metal bracket that the card has to hold it to the case.

    Here's a listing for a 32mb Radeon 7000 that could be modified that way. Its easy.

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Apple-Mac-G4-G5-Cube-Mac-ATI-Radeon-7000-32MB-AGP-VGA-Graphics-Video-Card-/251126702780



    Well, that mounting bracket is very easy to remove. Sure, I've read that the plates don't match the opening in the Cube, but they've said that's not a problem and I agree.

    The other thing is that I'm being stubborn about using the Cinema Display with the ADC connector, so I need a card like that.

    I'm looking for that Radeon 7500, which that link says needs the gate bracket removed.
    Power Mac G4 Cube, MorphOS with Style!
  • »09.06.17 - 16:37
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  • Jim
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    Jim
    Posts: 4026 from 2009/1/28
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    I see your point, no ADC connector.
    And if you're going to hack the system for a 9000 (and the use of a paperclip in that mod IS scary), then you could also go to a 9600, 9800, or 9650.

    But the 9000 would drive your monitor (I have one hooked up right now to a 17" Cinema Display).

    Does anyone have a photo of that case extension mentioned as a possibility for installing alternative cards?
    "Fiery the angels rose, and as they rose deep thunder roll'd / Around their shores: indignant burning with the fires of Orc."

    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »09.06.17 - 18:07
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  • Caterpillar
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    lsitongia
    Posts: 28 from 2017/5/27
    From: Colorado, USA
    The ATI Radeon 7500 works beautifully in the Cube with the 20" Apple Cinema Display! Wunderbar! I'm going to try a bigger disk drive in it next, and then call it a very cool system, the MOSCube.

    Thank you all for your kind help. This is a very nice community.
    Power Mac G4 Cube, MorphOS with Style!
  • »13.06.17 - 23:29
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  • Caterpillar
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    lsitongia
    Posts: 28 from 2017/5/27
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    Oh, and in contrast with this thread title, I can now say that "Power Mac G4 Cube Working Well".
    Power Mac G4 Cube, MorphOS with Style!
  • »13.06.17 - 23:32
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    amigadave
    Posts: 2392 from 2006/3/21
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    Quote:

    lsitongia wrote:
    Oh, and in contrast with this thread title, I can now say that "Power Mac G4 Cube Working Well".


    Congrats on your success with getting a better video card installed. Post a picture or two when you get a chance. And again, welcome to the community, we are a fairly friendly bunch of crazy people addicted to our old gear and great OS.
    MorphOS - The best Next Gen Amiga choice.
  • »14.06.17 - 00:30
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