I'm really enjoying the value (money wise) of MorphOS
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Korni
    Posts: 325 from 2006/2/23
    From: the Planet of ...
    Quote:

    jPV wrote:
    I'm happy with G4 still

    Well, I was happy with G3, G4, G5, the problem with PPC is you can't be more happy than with G5 ;).
    http://korni.ppa.pl/modkowypaczek/ | My Rifle, My Bunny, and Me
  • »25.03.17 - 14:00
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9293 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Power architecture continues only in mainframes and big servers.

    Power Architecture hasn't been used in mainframes, and I'm not aware of plans it will be.
  • »25.03.17 - 14:32
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Korni
    Posts: 325 from 2006/2/23
    From: the Planet of ...
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > Power architecture continues only in mainframes and big servers.

    Power Architecture hasn't been used in mainframes, and I'm not aware of plans it will be.


    Depends on the defintion. By IBM they are only mainframe inspired servers, but that's quite a long road for home computing anyway ;).

    https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/zosbasics/com.ibm.zos.zmainframe/zconc_whatismainframe.htm
    http://korni.ppa.pl/modkowypaczek/ | My Rifle, My Bunny, and Me
  • »25.03.17 - 15:02
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Zylesea
    Posts: 1787 from 2003/6/4
    Quote:

    jPV schrieb:
    [ Our 10 years old hw is perfectly fine still for most uses and still closer to mainstream than Amiga was for example 20 years ago. I'm happy with G4 still, and can take a step to G5 too when that time comes :)



    MorphOS is so good that you can use it as primary system. But for most ppl (me included) the webbrowser is the most important thing and while Odyssey is powerful and has some advantages, browsing with MorphOS is not only peasant.
    It#s comparatively slow (lack of JS.JIT _and_ raw cpu power) and compability gets worse.
    Raw cpu power would help to milden up some issues. The network interface is comparatiively slow, too (but rumous have it this may change with some future release that may come with a new tcp/ip stack).
    Another t hing is video and gfx. The fast G4s have their issues to replay 720p video, they fail on 1080. While I don't alwys need hd resolution, you just come along these videos today and here MorphOS could really benefit from some addional cpu power. A g5 does help a bit, but not entirely and teh G5s are monsters (leaky, bulky, energy hungry).
    Or even simple things like jpg decoding, todays high relolutions require a bit cpu time. My usual camera is set to very modest 8 MP, but still decodiung a picture takes bewteen 0.5 and 1 s. Not much for a single photo, but this could be quicker...
    And the RAM limitation breaks in additionally. With teh 1 GB of the mac mini I run out of RAM quite often, with the 1.5 GB I have in my Powerbok this is a smaller issue, but still. With the max 1.8 GB this is okay, but not totally convenient.
    All in all it's okay and I still use MorphOS as primary system, but the hardware doesn't get more comparative. It shows its age.

    Having said that I want to emphasize that I still see MorphOS as a very good OS that can qualify as primary OS (at least for me it does).
    --
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    Whenever you're sad just remember the world is 4.543 billion years old and you somehow managed to exist at the same time as David Bowie.
  • »25.03.17 - 19:22
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9293 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > The fast G4s have their issues to replay 720p video [...]. A g5 does help a bit,
    > but not entirely

    When I switched from G4 to G5 some months back, I was really positively surprised by the H264 720p replay capability of the G5 compared to the G4. It's above what I had assumed based on the increased CPU clock and performance per clock. It's probably the way faster bus doing its share also.

    > teh G5s are monsters (leaky, bulky, energy hungry).

    No liquid cooling, no leaks :-)
  • »26.03.17 - 13:28
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Zylesea
    Posts: 1787 from 2003/6/4
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf schrieb:
    > The fast G4s have their issues to replay 720p video [...]. A g5 does help a bit,
    > but not entirely

    When I switched from G4 to G5 some months back, I was really positively surprised by the H264 720p replay capability of the G5 compared to the G4. It's above what I had assumed based on the increased CPU clock and performance per clock. It's probably the way faster bus doing its share also.



    That is really good to hear.
    Quote:



    > teh G5s are monsters (leaky, bulky, energy hungry).

    No liquid cooling, no leaks :-)


    Yes, the aircooled G5s are what I could take into account personally. And while I know you're more a man of plain facts, than exaggeratios, I guess you understood what I wanted to express.

    It's undoubtly good to have support for the G5s. But G5s don't have only advantages, but also disadvantages.
    --
    http://www.via-altera.de

    Whenever you're sad just remember the world is 4.543 billion years old and you somehow managed to exist at the same time as David Bowie.
  • »26.03.17 - 21:54
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9293 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    >>> teh G5s are monsters (leaky, bulky, energy hungry).

    >> No liquid cooling, no leaks :-)

    > Yes, the aircooled G5s are what I could take into account personally. [...]
    > I guess you understood what I wanted to express.

    Yes, and I have no problem to admit that my air-cooled G5 is a bulky, energy hungry monster :-)
  • »26.03.17 - 23:11
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4251 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    >>> teh G5s are monsters (leaky, bulky, energy hungry).

    >> No liquid cooling, no leaks :-)

    > Yes, the aircooled G5s are what I could take into account personally. [...]
    > I guess you understood what I wanted to express.

    Yes, and I have no problem to admit that my air-cooled G5 is a bulky, energy hungry monster :-)


    When did you buy that Andreas?
    I thought you were still using a Mac Mini.

    I, myself, broke down most of my G5 equipment and rarely use the two I have left.

    They make good space heaters.
    Energy draw is one of the reasons I want to switch to an X5000.
    "Magnetic was troubled by my avatars and 'satanic' references" - Jim Igou

    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »27.03.17 - 01:24
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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Posts: 129 from 2015/8/23
    Current MOS should be compared with classic.
    It is very good way to use old 68k software.
    Amiga NG is something which gunnar von boehn and other scumbags from natami/apollo/vampire team
    promise but never deliver.
    Binary compatible with old 68k software soulution, with one hundert time faster cpu than fastest 68k,
    and thousands times faster graphis.
    There is really no reason to waste time and money on commodore machines made after amiga 500.
    Buy amiga 500 with gotek for old games, and amiga ng for productivity software and You will be happy.



    [ Edited by ppcamiga1 02.04.2017 - 07:03 ]
  • »02.04.17 - 07:00
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9293 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Current MOS [...] is very good way to use old 68k software. [...]
    > Binary compatible with old 68k software soulution [...].

    ...except for m68k software depending on Amiga chipset.

    > There is really no reason to waste time and money on commodore machines
    > made after amiga 500.

    There is Vampire for A500 :-)
  • »02.04.17 - 10:42
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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Posts: 129 from 2015/8/23
    Amiga productivity software which not works on graphics card is not worth of use.
    Fortunately, it's just a few percent of amiga productivity software.
    Vampire in current form is overpriced underpowerd crap, not worth money which they ask.
  • »02.04.17 - 11:39
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Jim
    Posts: 4251 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    @ Andreas

    Cool. Nice to see a comparison.

    [ Edited by Jim 02.04.2017 - 08:50 ]
    "Magnetic was troubled by my avatars and 'satanic' references" - Jim Igou

    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »02.04.17 - 13:45
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4251 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    ppcamiga1 wrote:
    Amiga productivity software which not works on graphics card is not worth of use.
    Fortunately, it's just a few percent of amiga productivity software.
    Vampire in current form is overpriced underpowerd crap, not worth money which they ask.




    Honestly, you get on these rants and just piss everyone off (and frankly, I always find reading your posts painful).

    The worst thing I'd ever accuse Gunnar of being is eccentric.

    Its not an us or them matter here.
    Some of us still retain legacy hardware for its nostalgic value.
    Does that make all of it "underpowered crap"?

    We get the same argument about being "underpowered" from the X64 supporters.

    Quote:

    Korni wrote:
    Quote:

    jPV wrote:
    I'm happy with G4 still

    Well, I was happy with G3, G4, G5, the problem with PPC is you can't be more happy than with G5 ;).


    I could with an X5000. Powerful, with low power draw.
    My G5 hardware makes for a pretty good space heater.
    "Magnetic was troubled by my avatars and 'satanic' references" - Jim Igou

    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »02.04.17 - 13:47
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  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    kolla
    Posts: 97 from 2003/4/22
    I can only chip in why I do not use MorphOS much, and it has really been the same issue all the time.

    * license model - to tie the license to hardware it just not something I accept, I have several systems that potentially could be running MorphOS, and I want to decide myself which one I want to use for whatever OS, MorphOS included.
    * MorphOS does not run on emulator, so I cannot easily bring it with me. In contrast, I can now easily run OS4.1FE (that I did buy) on whatever hardware I see fit.
    -- kolla
  • »02.04.17 - 15:27
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4251 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    kolla wrote:
    I can only chip in why I do not use MorphOS much, and it has really been the same issue all the time.

    * license model - to tie the license to hardware it just not something I accept, I have several systems that potentially could be running MorphOS, and I want to decide myself which one I want to use for whatever OS, MorphOS included.
    * MorphOS does not run on emulator, so I cannot easily bring it with me. In contrast, I can now easily run OS4.1FE (that I did buy) on whatever hardware I see fit.


    And yet, for the most part, Windows licenses are tied to hardware.
    You can upgrade that hardware, but you're not supposed to install it on completely new systems once installed elsewhere.

    I paid for my MorphOS license.
    I haven't tried OS4, as I don't want to spend the money for compatible equipment right now.

    That would be my main point of comparison.
    MorphOS, more expensive license, but much cheaper hardware.
    OS4, comes with the hardware (or separately at a lower price than MorphOS), but on much more expensive hardware.

    Maybe when I feel comfortable with the expenditure (and MorphOS for the X5000 is introduced), I'll try OS4.
    But primarily, because it will essentially be free.

    [ Edited by Jim 02.04.2017 - 14:42 ]
    "Magnetic was troubled by my avatars and 'satanic' references" - Jim Igou

    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »02.04.17 - 17:14
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  • jPV
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    jPV
    Posts: 1299 from 2003/2/24
    From: po-RNO
    OS4.1FE Classic makes an exception, because it can be run in the emulation, but if you run them on the hardware they are designed, they are also quite tied to hardware in practise. AmigaONE X1000, older AmigaONEs, Classic PPC, Pegasos 2, Sam440, and Sam460 all need a different version of the OS4. If you have bought one version, it doesn't work on different type of machine, and if you have several types of machines, you need to buy several copies of the OS.
  • »02.04.17 - 19:01
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    amigadave
    Posts: 2456 from 2006/3/21
    From: Lake Shastina,...
    Quote:

    jPV wrote:
    OS4.1FE Classic makes an exception, because it can be run in the emulation, but if you run them on the hardware they are designed, they are also quite tied to hardware in practise. AmigaONE X1000, older AmigaONEs, Classic PPC, Pegasos 2, Sam440, and Sam460 all need a different version of the OS4. If you have bought one version, it doesn't work on different type of machine, and if you have several types of machines, you need to buy several copies of the OS.


    Allowing OS4.1FE to run under emulation without fighting the community, and lowering the price to purchase OS4.1FE, are the only two GOOD decisions that Hyperion have made within the last 10 years. Those decisions may have saved Hyperion from themselves, and their utter lack of funding and ability to complete OS4.2.

    Those decisions may have prevented MorphOS from gaining additional users away from the shrinking group of OS4.x users, but of course, I have no evidence to support my suppositions and assumptions, only the feeling I get from reading about trends on Amiga and MorphOS forums.

    AmigaOS4.1FE license model works because the hardware is fairly expensive, to very expensive, and the license fee is paid by the distributor or manufacturer of the hardware prior to it being sold to the users, which makes pirating a moot point. MorphOS on the other hand, runs on very cheap (sometimes free) hardware, that is widely available, so some kind of anti-pirating mechanism was needed, and tying each license to the hardware was probably the easiest, and most secure type of anti-pirating method they could come up with.
    Edit: Sorry to point out the obvious, it may only be obvious to some users.


    [ Edited by amigadave 02.04.2017 - 12:21 ]
    MorphOS - The best Next Gen Amiga choice.
  • »02.04.17 - 20:18
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4251 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    >>> When did you buy that Andreas?

    >> Shortly before I benchmarked it against pampers' X5000 here on MorphZone.

    > Cool. Nice to see a comparison.

    Yes, nice enough that you felt "comfortable enough with the benches to have decided to replace [your] G5s with a P5040 based X5000" :-)

    http://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=11&topic_id=11137&start=604


    You don't actually expect my faltering memory to work any better than it has over then last eight years, do you? ;-)

    Besides, I missed that you'd replaced the Mac mini with the G5, after all, you pop up with different benchmarks all the time.

    Funny, I moved back to a G4 for most of my use.

    But I remember I was encouraged by the benches (and actually interpreted them correctly).
    "Magnetic was troubled by my avatars and 'satanic' references" - Jim Igou

    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »02.04.17 - 20:52
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9293 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > I missed that you'd replaced the Mac mini with the G5, after all, you pop up with different
    > benchmarks all the time.

    I thought I made clear that it was my very own G5 machine that I ran the benchmarks on. I never report others' benchmark results without also giving the source.
  • »02.04.17 - 21:15
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4251 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > I missed that you'd replaced the Mac mini with the G5, after all, you pop up with different
    > benchmarks all the time.

    I thought I made clear that it was my very own G5 machine that I ran the benchmarks on. I never report others' benchmark results without also giving the source.


    Like I said, I own a G5 as well (two if you count my Quad core), but I primarily use a G4 now.
    I just assumed, like everyone else, you'd added to a "collection" of systems.

    I kind of like the Mac Mini. Not enough vram, but a nice compact form factor. And fairly powerful.
    "Magnetic was troubled by my avatars and 'satanic' references" - Jim Igou

    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »02.04.17 - 22:54
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9293 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > I just assumed, like everyone else, you'd added to a "collection" of systems.

    Seems then that I misinterpreted your question ("When did you buy that Andreas?").
    I'm not a collector type. I sold my Pegasos right after MorphOS was released for the Mac mini, and I gave away my Mac mini right after it broke and the G5 was delivered, and I won't keep the G5 should I switch to another hardware for MorphOS. And there are certainly other non-collectors beside me :-)
  • »02.04.17 - 23:24
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4251 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > I just assumed, like everyone else, you'd added to a "collection" of systems.

    Seems then that I misinterpreted your question ("When did you buy that Andreas?").
    I'm not a collector type. I sold my Pegasos right after MorphOS was released for the Mac mini, and I gave away my Mac mini right after it broke and the G5 was delivered, and I won't keep the G5 should I switch to another hardware for MorphOS. And there are certainly other non-collectors beside me :-)


    Understandable, pity the Mini bit the dust.
    I wouldn't count what I do collecting.
    Usually I sell off whatever I'm not using.
    I just have a lot of spares hanging around.

    I might have kept the Peg though.
    "Magnetic was troubled by my avatars and 'satanic' references" - Jim Igou

    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »03.04.17 - 01:22
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