Hints and rumoured sightings of the very shy 3.10
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2393 from 2003/2/24
    A completely new network stack has supposedly been in the works for long, with a more complete contemporary set of features. (No idea whether it will make it to 3.10 though)

    MIDI.
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »04.01.17 - 00:20
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    koszer
    Posts: 629 from 2004/2/8
    From: Poland
    So it was ppa.pl then:

    - 2d acceleration for all Radeons
    - 3d and Overlay for R500
    - expanded developer environment
    - VPDF with current poppler version
    - 1,8 GB of RAM available for G5 PowerMacs
    - Odyssey with integrated AROS-derived fixes
    - new blanker
    - new Clipboard mechanism
    - new Reggae classes
    - new screenbar modules (e.g. screengrabber)
    - sshfs integration
    - Ambient fixes
    - Obj-C integration
    - X5000 support
    - new scanner drivers
    - support for PCI-e wifi and LAN cards

    ...and something more (a suprise of some kind)
  • »04.01.17 - 08:42
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2393 from 2003/2/24
    Quote:

    koszer wrote:
    So it was ppa.pl then:

    - 2d acceleration for all Radeons
    - 3d and Overlay for R500
    - expanded developer environment
    - VPDF with current poppler version
    - 1,8 GB of RAM available for G5 PowerMacs
    - Odyssey with integrated AROS-derived fixes
    - new blanker
    - new Clipboard mechanism
    - new Reggae classes
    - new screenbar modules (e.g. screengrabber)
    - sshfs integration
    - Ambient fixes
    - Obj-C integration
    - X5000 support
    - new scanner drivers
    - support for PCI-e wifi and LAN cards


    Combined with other hints, it surely looks like a major update! Worth waiting for! :-)


    Quote:

    ...and something more (a suprise of some kind)


    3.10 not being 3.10 but 4.0? Pretty please? ;-)

    :-D


    Or perhaps more likely something like this? That would be very cool as well! :-)


    (Pagestream 5 for MorphOS actually running (and on an X5000))

    8-)
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »04.01.17 - 09:39
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2393 from 2003/2/24
    Quote:

    koszer wrote:

    - Obj-C integration



    This is interesting. And what exactly does the "integration" part mean? That it is merely bundled with the new IDE like C or C++ or is it more than that? I recall reading somewhere that one of the key features of MUI5 vs. 4 was new language support. Is this it, and is this MUI adaption part of the meaning of the word "integration", and if so, are other parts of MorphOS affected?

    I have very little knowledge of Objective C, *what are the perks of it* compared to, say, C++? Why and when is Obj-C preferred?
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »04.01.17 - 10:12
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9218 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > 2d acceleration for all Radeons

    ...meaning Radeon HD (and newer?), as pre-HD Radeons already are 2D-accelerated in current MorphOS.

    > 3d and Overlay for R500

    Isn't this already there since MorphOS 3.8?

    > expanded developer environment

    Yes, this should be part of the separate SDK.

    > 1,8 GB of RAM available for G5 PowerMacs

    Yes, this known one had escaped me yesterday. But according to geit these 1.7 GiB (= 1.8 GB) are not restricted to the G5.

    > Odyssey with integrated AROS-derived fixes

    That's fantastic. I read about an update to be provided in MorphOS 3.10 but wasn't sure this wasn't going to be just an update of the linked OpenSSL component (as in the "updated" Odyssey in MorphOS 3.9).

    > new screenbar modules (e.g. screengrabber)

    Yes, as reported by geit. Forgot that one yesterday, too.

    > Obj-C integration

    Isn't that already in the current SDK?
  • »04.01.17 - 12:50
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9218 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Or perhaps more likely something like this? That would be very cool as well! :-)
    > [...] (Pagestream 5 for MorphOS actually running (and on an X5000))

    I'm not sure I'd welcome commercial applications like Pagestream being bundled with MorphOS unless it wouldn't increase the MorphOS price (which I consider unlikely).
  • »04.01.17 - 13:19
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    asrael22
    Posts: 257 from 2014/6/11
    From: Germany
    Quote:

    takemehomegrandma wrote:
    Quote:

    koszer wrote:

    - Obj-C integration



    I have very little knowledge of Objective C, *what are the perks of it* compared to, say, C++? Why and when is Obj-C preferred?


    I like this as well since I'm very much used to Objective-C from the OS X side of things.
    Objective-C is clearly less complex and much cleaner than C++. The syntax is something to get used to though.


    Manfred
  • »04.01.17 - 15:26
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  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    Tomo
    Posts: 70 from 2003/7/29
    From: Heesch, The Ne...
    PageStream 5 would be incredible. I'm using it mostly now on my Mac, but using it again on my Peg is what I'm dreaming of.....

    Tom
  • »04.01.17 - 16:59
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    NewSense
    Posts: 512 from 2012/11/10
    From: Manchester, Gr...
    Likewise, PageStream 5 (if stable/reliable) would be great news, as would OWB without the JavaScript Engine running amok every so often.

    I'm sure that PageStream v5.x for MorphOS would be something that we would have to pay Deron Kazmaier for, as he is the copyright holder of the software, unless some code deal has been done with him, if he's not interested in continuing its progression - though I'd hope he would, as he obviously knows the program's intricacies better than anyone.

    That's not forgetting Isochronous integration, improved scanning features, and hopefully the Beta Printing will have become integrated as well as all the other additional features that are intended for 3.10, and even if they don't quite make it for 3.10, then hopefully they weill soon afterwards, which would still be OK by me, and of course I'll be putting my money where my fingers go - into MorphOS itsef wherever I can, within my spare budget - thanks guys - I'm looking forward to this latest update, sounds really great. 8-D
    Mac Mini 1.5GHz, Model 10.2, 64MB VRam, 250GB HDD, 1GB RAM, Airport, Bluetooth, Wireless Keyboard & Mouse, DVD-RW-DL+CD-RW, Iomega MiniMax, Belkin 6 port 3 x Firewire/3 x USB2, MorphOS 3.9, Mac OS X 10.4 & 10.5 & A1138 Powerbook MOS v3.9, Model 5,8
  • »04.01.17 - 19:15
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9218 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > hopefully the Beta Printing will have become integrated

    That's the third planned improvement I knew of but had forgotten about yesterday ;-) Thanks for the reminder.
  • »04.01.17 - 22:42
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4140 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Hmm... You guys don't expect much. ;-)

    Does all that have to be ready just to jump a revision number?

    And 2D and 3D acceleration are no longer seperate issues as the R500 was the last series supporting 2D primitives.
    From there out, each successive series brings its own evolutionary changes.
    So you are more likely to get this stuff progressively, rather than all at once.
    "Magnetic was troubled by my avatars and 'satanic' references" - Jim Igou

    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »04.01.17 - 23:33
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    NewSense
    Posts: 512 from 2012/11/10
    From: Manchester, Gr...
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > hopefully the Beta Printing will have become integrated

    That's the third planned improvement I knew of but had forgotten about yesterday ;-) Thanks for the reminder.

    That will be a Fantastic addition to our OS, muchas gracias to all involved, specifcially 'Zukow' I suppose. 8-D
    Mac Mini 1.5GHz, Model 10.2, 64MB VRam, 250GB HDD, 1GB RAM, Airport, Bluetooth, Wireless Keyboard & Mouse, DVD-RW-DL+CD-RW, Iomega MiniMax, Belkin 6 port 3 x Firewire/3 x USB2, MorphOS 3.9, Mac OS X 10.4 & 10.5 & A1138 Powerbook MOS v3.9, Model 5,8
  • »05.01.17 - 00:46
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2393 from 2003/2/24
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:
    Hmm... You guys don't expect much. ;-)

    Does all that have to be ready just to jump a revision number?


    Well, with a waiting time of 566 days since the 3.9 release, we have passed the 554 days it took for the (huge) 2.7 -> 3.0 release to get here, and we are currently travelling slowly towards the 1157 days it took for the (monumental) 1.4.5 -> 2.0 release, which is currently the only remaining unmatched waiting time, the all-time high!

    So yes, I expect the next release to be somewhere between huge and monumental... ;-)
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »05.01.17 - 00:47
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  • Cocoon
    Cocoon
    Posts: 56 from 2016/3/9
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:

    - improved graphics drivers (including improved Radeon HD support)


    Is it reasonable to expect that, along with X5000 support, the improved Radeon HD support will include some of the higher end (at least in the Amiga world) video cards that can be installed in an X5000? I'm talking about cards like the R9 270X and such.

    I don't realistically expect support for so many cards but hopefully the support for more cards will continue to expand.
  • »05.01.17 - 06:48
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    ernsteiswuerfel
    Posts: 162 from 2015/6/18
    From: Funeralopolis
    Quote:

    Pgovotsos schrieb:

    Is it reasonable to expect that, along with X5000 support, the improved Radeon HD support will include some of the higher end (at least in the Amiga world) video cards that can be installed in an X5000? I'm talking about cards like the R9 270X and such.

    I doubt it. Radeon HD cards are r600-series, which is AFAIK an evolutionary step from the r500-series already supported (and now getting improved). The R9 270X/370X are GCN1-series. Rather a new design than an evolutionary step.

    It took more than a year in Linuxland for proper support. And by devs which are directly employed at AMD... Recently AMD released GCN4-cards which are run by an an entierly different driver. ;-) My uneducated guess is that framebuffer-support will be pracitial in a shorter period of time, but don't expect halfway decent 2D/3D-acceleration anytime soon for cards newer than r600-series.

    But in my opinion that doesn't matter much. No software here on MorphOS which could utilize a good r500/r600-card to the full with just one CPU-core. ;-)

    Much more interesting would be utilizing the UVD-unit (Universal Video Decoder) which is present from r600-series on. This unit can do high-res MPEG4/VC1/H264-decoding in hardware. This would allow decent videoplayback, even on single-core machines.

    [ Editiert durch ernsteiswuerfel 05.01.2017 - 15:43 ]
    PMac G5 11,2. PMac G5 7,3. PBook G4 5,8. PBook G4 5,6. [MorphOS 3.9 / Gentoo Linux / Ubuntu MATE 16.10] 2 x A1200. ACA-1233/55, ACA1232/40, Indivision AGA Mk2, 4 GiB CF. [Amiga OS 3.9]
  • »05.01.17 - 15:33
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9218 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    >> Is it reasonable to expect that, along with X5000 support, the improved
    >> Radeon HD support will include some of the higher end (at least in the
    >> Amiga world) video cards that can be installed in an X5000? I'm talking
    >> about cards like the R9 270X and such.

    > I doubt it. [...] But in my opinion that doesn't matter much. No software
    > here on MorphOS which could utilize a good r500/r600-card to the full
    > with just one CPU-core.

    I think the question about support for GCN-based graphics cards in MorphOS aims at the possibility of using the X5000 with OS4/MorphOS dual boot with just one single graphics card installed. If graphics card support is not sufficiently overlapping between the two OS, two different graphics cards will have to be installed.
  • »05.01.17 - 16:45
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2393 from 2003/2/24
    It would be strange to release a MorphOS version with X5000 support without supporting the GFX cards they are usually sold with.

    Supporting any other GFX cards than these should come much lower down in the priority list.
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »05.01.17 - 17:00
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9218 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > It would be strange to release a MorphOS version with X5000 support
    > without supporting the GFX cards they are usually sold with.

    Sam460, anyone? ;-)
    (Mere framebuffer support obviously isn't what Pgovotsos asked for.)
  • »05.01.17 - 18:28
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  • MorphOS Developer
    geit
    Posts: 888 from 2004/9/23
    Quote:

    ernsteiswuerfel wrote:

    Much more interesting would be utilizing the UVD-unit (Universal Video Decoder) which is present from r600-series on. This unit can do high-res MPEG4/VC1/H264-decoding in hardware. This would allow decent videoplayback, even on single-core machines.



    For five minutes or so. Then people start screeming "Why is there no h265 support? That is standard!"

    And for the fun. Yes. h264 is getting more and more obsolete as h265 HEVC saves a huge amount of space. In most cases about 40-50% less data.

    Will need to update my Kodi hardware in 2017, too.

    [ Edited by geit 05.01.2017 - 19:02 ]
  • »05.01.17 - 18:56
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    ernsteiswuerfel
    Posts: 162 from 2015/6/18
    From: Funeralopolis
    Quote:

    geit schrieb:
    For five minutes or so. Then people start screeming "Why is there no h265 support? That is standard!"

    Probably you are right. :-/

    Quote:

    geit schrieb:
    And for the fun. Yes. h264 is getting more and more obsolete as h265 HEVC saves a huge amount of space. In most cases about 40-50% less data.

    Well, in that case MorphOS should directly go for the GCN4-cards with full h265/HEVC and 10bit HDR support. :-D
    PMac G5 11,2. PMac G5 7,3. PBook G4 5,8. PBook G4 5,6. [MorphOS 3.9 / Gentoo Linux / Ubuntu MATE 16.10] 2 x A1200. ACA-1233/55, ACA1232/40, Indivision AGA Mk2, 4 GiB CF. [Amiga OS 3.9]
  • »06.01.17 - 09:30
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  • ASiegel
    Posts: 879 from 2003/2/15
    From: Central Europe
    Quote:

    geit wrote:
    For five minutes or so. Then people start screeming "Why is there no h265 support? That is standard!"

    Hand aufs Herz: It is not the standard and will not be for a while. We all know there are technically superior alternatives, yet JPEG still rules the Internet of Images(tm).

    Quote:

    And for the fun. Yes. h264 is getting more and more obsolete as h265 HEVC saves a huge amount of space. In most cases about 40-50% less data.

    Yes, similar to those JPEG alternatives I mentioned.

    For high quality content utilizing 4K resolutions or HDR, HEVC is unavoidable, of course. But these represent a tiny fraction of the available content and this is not going to drastically change within a year or two.
  • »06.01.17 - 10:34
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Jupp3
    Posts: 1191 from 2003/2/24
    From: Helsinki, Finland
    Quote:

    ASiegel wrote:
    But these represent a tiny fraction of the available content and this is not going to drastically change within a year or two.

    So when 3.10 is released, everyone has switched already?

    ...just kidding about the release date (I hope...) :-P
  • »06.01.17 - 22:36
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4140 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    I don't expect to see the GCN cards addressed anytime soon.
    The next series would likely be the R600s.
    That should include everything from the HD 2400Pro to the 3870.
    After that the R700s should be next, with the HD 4450 to 4890.
    Then there are the cards from the HD 5450 to 6970.

    AFTER those, then it would make sense to tackle the GCN cards.

    When we get to the R7, R9, and RX cards, we will have a base of earlier cards that will be fully supported (unlike the jump in OS4 from the R200 series to the GCN cards).

    [ Edited by Jim 06.01.2017 - 18:09 ]
    "Magnetic was troubled by my avatars and 'satanic' references" - Jim Igou

    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »07.01.17 - 00:07
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9218 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > R600s [...] should include everything from the HD 2400Pro to the 3870.

    Wouldn't this be HD 2350 to HD 4290?

    > R700s [...] with the HD 4450 to 4890

    Wouldn't this start from HD 4350?

    > Then there are the cards from the HD 5450 to 6970.

    R800 is from HD 5450 to HD 5970, HD 6750 to HD 6770, HD 7350, HD 8350, R5 210 to R5 220.
    R900 is from HD 6450 to HD 6990 (except HD 6750 to HD 6770, see above), HD 7450 to HD 7670, HD 8400, R5 220 to R5 235X.

    > When we get to the R7, R9, and RX cards, we will have a base of earlier cards
    > that will be fully supported

    GCN-based cards numbered lower than R7 are from HD 7730 to HD 7990, HD 8570 to HD 8970, R5 240 to R5 435.
  • »07.01.17 - 02:08
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  • Cocoon
    Cocoon
    Posts: 56 from 2016/3/9
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    >> Is it reasonable to expect that, along with X5000 support, the improved
    >> Radeon HD support will include some of the higher end (at least in the
    >> Amiga world) video cards that can be installed in an X5000? I'm talking
    >> about cards like the R9 270X and such.

    I think the question about support for GCN-based graphics cards in MorphOS aims at the possibility of using the X5000 with OS4/MorphOS dual boot with just one single graphics card installed. If graphics card support is not sufficiently overlapping between the two OS, two different graphics cards will have to be installed.


    Thank you Andreas. Yes, that is my reason for asking.
  • »07.01.17 - 04:59
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