Crowdfunding for TALOS Workstation
  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4700 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > if Talos was shown to bench in single core performance than
    > my G5 2.7 (and MorphOS supported it of course), I might be
    > willing to drop the cash for the asking price.

    I'm sure that the POWER9 absolutely destroys the PPC970, also in single-core/thread performance.


    Yes, it should be remarkable. And with support for four times the number of threads (quad G5 @ four thread with the quad Power 9 @ sixteen threads).
    Better memory, much later gen. PCIe slots, faster hard drive interfaces...
    All we need is support for baremetal KVM.

    Frankly, I'd prefer this to our announced X64 shift.
    This would offer us better legacy compatibility.
    In fact, even if no NG OS is ever ported to this platform, I might go this way anyway and finally dump Windows in favor of Linux.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »31.08.18 - 21:20
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10019 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > All we need is support for baremetal KVM.

    ...or even better, MorphOS ported to the Talos II :-)
  • »01.09.18 - 09:09
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Jim
    Posts: 4700 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > All we need is support for baremetal KVM.

    ...or even better, MorphOS ported to the Talos II :-)


    Yeah, that would do it. ;-)
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »01.09.18 - 14:48
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  • Caterpillar
    Caterpillar
    xilinder
    Posts: 34 from 2018/2/1
    From: USA
    Cool stuff. If I had ever had Mac stuff I would give it a go.

    Right now I'm running Debian and Fedora le. Haven't figured out what I'm doing wrong with getting Big endian installed, but I'm working on it.

    Someone mentioned the noise factor. There isn't one.
    As soon as the T2 starts to boot the OS the CPU, case, and graphics card fans drop to low speed and are quiet. And that is for the three cards I have tried, HD4580, HD6850, and WX7100. Just to bring them up to 1/3 speed I had to run 6 youtube 1080p videos while playing a AVI movie off a dvd while having Timidity playing a list of tunes. No slowdowns/skipping,,,,just smooth.

    I'm still playing around with OS's trying to decide which one to settle on for development. It's all fun.
  • »02.09.18 - 19:03
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10019 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > If I had ever had Mac stuff I would give it a go.

    What would be cool, also in the context of this website, is running MorphOS on the virtualized G4 Mac.
  • »03.09.18 - 08:10
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  • Caterpillar
    Caterpillar
    xilinder
    Posts: 34 from 2018/2/1
    From: USA
    Yes, cool indeed.

    Right now it's digging around in the hardware and then messing about with kernels. It's going to be awhile before getting around to much else.
  • »03.09.18 - 12:54
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    redrumloa
    Posts: 1261 from 2003/4/13
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:

    What would be cool, also in the context of this website, is running MorphOS on the virtualized G4 Mac.


    Has Bigfoot ever mentioned Talos either way? As in, is the chance of a MorphOS native port anywhere north of 0%?
  • »03.09.18 - 20:36
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Jim
    Posts: 4700 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    redrumloa wrote:
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:

    What would be cool, also in the context of this website, is running MorphOS on the virtualized G4 Mac.


    Has Bigfoot ever mentioned Talos either way? As in, is the chance of a MorphOS native port anywhere north of 0%?


    I've discussed Raptor Enginnering and it's projects with Mark a few times.
    I don't think he'd be adverse to receiving one of their boards.

    That being said, just like to PowerMac 11,2 beta port, having a developer experiment with new hardware is not the same as official support.

    Mark has also mentioned an interest in the T2080 laptop.

    But...one developer, with an obvious passion for hardware is what it is, ONE developer.

    MorphOS is the product of a community of developers, and official support is something that would require the support of more than one developer.

    If the T2080 laptop reaches production, we should buy one for Mark.
    The same is true for a single cpu MATX Power 9 system from Raptor.

    BUT...buying some new hardware for Mark to experiment with is NO gaurentee of official support. And something more polished than an initial beta port ought to be paid for as well (remember, Mark was paid for the G5 port).

    I don't think I can stress enough that this OS is a group project, and the group has already committed to an X64 fork.

    I, like many of you, would love to see continued development of the original PPC variant of MorphOS.
    It would still support 68K code, it's NOT Intel/X86 (and alternatives to that have always had their appeal), and who said we HAVE to be practical?

    Power9 based MorphOS? I find the idea VERY attractive. Especially as the base for a new generation of MorphOS. It could run our existing apps and provide a base for all the new features we've discussed in a potential X64 fork (as well as potentially running OS4 via KVM if we wanted to really wanted to freak out the red team).

    If the price for the MATX system is good, Power9 would be a kick ass direction for us to move toward.

    Addendum - I noticed that in another thread, Redrumloa has mentioned that the 2.7 GHz G5 has the most powerful PPC NG processor available, and that someone else mention the T2080 as a possible contender.
    While I am a supporter of the T2080 laptop project I'd like to point out that although the T2080 does support 8 concurrent threads (versus a max of 4 for the best G5), Jim's contention is correct.
    The 970 has a faster clock speed, better memory throughput (especially true for the DDR2 dual core variants) and a pretty competent FPU.
    It does lack a hypervisor, but overall it's a pretty remarkable processor (especially considering how old it is).

    Which makes the argument for supporting Power9 all the stronger. The G5 was a Power4 derived cpu with a reduced feature set. Power9 is five generations later, with no compromises in it's design.
    Like the 970 was in it's day, Power9 is quite capable when compared to current X64 cpus.

    [ Edited by Jim 03.09.2018 - 19:20 ]
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »03.09.18 - 22:39
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    ernsteiswuerfel
    Posts: 229 from 2015/6/18
    From: Funeralopolis
    Looks very good!

    The mATX form factor assures that it will be much easier to find a suitable (and cheap) case. :-) Also a big improvement are the onboard SATA-connectors. On the other Talos variants you have to check first if your PCIe SATA card (in case your don't want to pay $ 300 for the onboard SAS-controller) is actually supported in the Petitboot-kernel if you want to boot from SATA.
    Talos II Secure Workstation. [Gentoo Linux] | PMac G5 7,3. PBook G4 5,8. [MorphOS 3.11 / Gentoo Linux] | A1200. ACA-1233, Indivision AGA Mk2. [Amiga OS 3.1.4]
  • »04.10.18 - 10:35
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  • Caterpillar
    Caterpillar
    xilinder
    Posts: 34 from 2018/2/1
    From: USA
    Quote:

    ernsteiswuerfel wrote:
    Looks very good!

    The mATX form factor assures that it will be much easier to find a suitable (and cheap) case. :-) Also a big improvement are the onboard SATA-connectors. On the other Talos variants you have to check first if your PCIe SATA card (in case your don't want to pay $ 300 for the onboard SAS-controller) is actually supported in the Petitboot-kernel if you want to boot from SATA.

    I have the onboard SAS-controller and I use SATA drives on the SAS inputs. The speed of the drives is only slower by a marginal amount compared to a SAS hard drive. This thing is just blistering fast, and although the fans run at full speed during the boot cycle, the machine is whisper quiet during operation.
  • »04.10.18 - 22:28
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Zylesea
    Posts: 1859 from 2003/6/4
    Quote:

    ernsteiswuerfel schrieb:
    Looks very good!

    The mATX form factor assures that it will be much easier to find a suitable (and cheap) case. :-) Also a big improvement are the onboard SATA-connectors. On the other Talos variants you have to check first if your PCIe SATA card (in case your don't want to pay $ 300 for the onboard SAS-controller) is actually supported in the Petitboot-kernel if you want to boot from SATA.


    This would be cool, could bring life again to my quite liked cooler Master atc 620 case which currently still houses the retired peg1 and is just coollecting dust AT the attic.
    But needs a certain os of course to attract me.
    --
    http://www.via-altera.de

    Whenever you're sad just remember the world is 4.543 billion years old and you somehow managed to exist at the same time as David Bowie.
  • »04.10.18 - 22:49
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    ernsteiswuerfel
    Posts: 229 from 2015/6/18
    From: Funeralopolis
    A very interesting side effect from the Talos II development is the quite big effort of porting Chromium to ppc64 klick. Albeith it seems most of this is LE stuff.
    Talos II Secure Workstation. [Gentoo Linux] | PMac G5 7,3. PBook G4 5,8. [MorphOS 3.11 / Gentoo Linux] | A1200. ACA-1233, Indivision AGA Mk2. [Amiga OS 3.1.4]
  • »06.10.18 - 14:02
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10019 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > porting Chromium to ppc64 [...] is LE stuff.

    Yes, and it's way less effort because the Chromium sources are LE-specific in many places. However, there's also an effort to port to big-endian PPC64:

    https://wiki.raptorcs.com/wiki/Porting/Chromium/BE
  • »06.10.18 - 15:34
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    ernsteiswuerfel
    Posts: 229 from 2015/6/18
    From: Funeralopolis
    Thanks Andeas_Wolf! It was only one klick away and I did not realize it. ;-) Hmm, this might come from the TenFourFox or Adelie Linux corner? The still have the focus on ppc BE.
    Talos II Secure Workstation. [Gentoo Linux] | PMac G5 7,3. PBook G4 5,8. [MorphOS 3.11 / Gentoo Linux] | A1200. ACA-1233, Indivision AGA Mk2. [Amiga OS 3.1.4]
  • »07.10.18 - 17:09
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10019 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > this might come from the TenFourFox or Adelie Linux corner?

    MarcusC is Marcus Comstedt, who is an old Amiga acquaintance.

    > The still have the focus on ppc BE.

    Adelie Linux does, yes. Cameron Kaiser on the other hand, while still doing big-endian work for TenFourFox on OSX/PPC for obvious reasons, is focussing on little-endian for his Linux/POWER9 work.
  • »07.10.18 - 19:46
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  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    bennymee
    Posts: 81 from 2004/4/14
    From: Netherlands
    Phoronix did some benchmarking with the Talos 2 and IBM Power 9:


    Raptor Talos II POWER9 Benchmarks Against AMD Threadripper & Intel Core i9

    https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=power9-threadripper-core9&num=1
  • »09.11.18 - 12:18
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  • Caterpillar
    Caterpillar
    xilinder
    Posts: 34 from 2018/2/1
    From: USA
    Ubuntu, hm. I had Ubuntu 18.10 on my T2 and it was not ready for prime time on this machine.
    Fedora and Debian seem to have spent more time on the system and not the fluff. Work continues I'm sure.
  • »09.11.18 - 13:24
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