Deadwood, Fab, Tobias: PPC OWB Javascript Patch and a pendin
  • Order of the Butterfly
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    Raf_MegaByte
    Posts: 430 from 2004/10/10
    From: Nella grande r...
    There are almost three months I am still waiting Deadwood and Fab to declare Javascript PPC Safari patch works flawlessly on AmigaOS OWB and on MorphOS OWB in order to pay Tobias Netzel the money I collected with Javascript Patch Bounty!

    https://www.bountysource.com/issues/30646188-odyssey-web-browser-solve-ppc-webkit-javascript-engine-endianess-problems-inherited-from-webkit-x86

    Is anyone reading this thread? Deadwood? Fab?

    Are you still alive?

    Do you managed to integrate Tobias PPC Javascript Patch into your respective versions of OWB?

    Does it work?

    Tobias Netzel is waiting the bounty money he gained full rights upon.
    Bill Gates "Think!", Steve Jobs: "Think different!" So... Let these guy continue blabbering thinking and enjoy computing! We are on Amiga!
  • »11.08.16 - 21:35
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    pampers
    Posts: 1061 from 2009/2/26
    From: Tczew, Poland
    Who are you to order anyone to do something? Have you hired them or do you pay Deadwood or Fab? Think twice before posting such a rude post, it doesn't hurt, trust me.
    MorphOS 3.x
  • »12.08.16 - 06:54
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Raf_MegaByte
    Posts: 430 from 2004/10/10
    From: Nella grande r...
    Quote:

    pampers wrote:
    Who are you to order anyone to do something? Have you hired them or do you pay Deadwood or Fab? Think twice before posting such a rude post, it doesn't hurt, trust me.


    It seems to me that you understood a fish for a bird of the whole thread topic, and you have a pitiful memory of past threads here on Morphzone.

    Fab had problems solving endianess issues of Javascript engine.

    Almost five months ago I launched a bounty to collect money for a patch.

    Money was collected and Tobias Netzel claimed bounty prize.

    In my last posts into the bounty threads here on Morph.zone and on Amigaworld I asked politely AmigaOS OWB developers and MorphOS OWB developer (Fab) recommending them to please examine Tobias Netzel patch and report if it is real valid solution to solve endianess issues, in order to free bounty in favour of Mr. Netzel, so I could pay him.

    None of developers had the politeness of advice me in almost three months, if they tested and judged as valid Mr. Netzel Javascript X86->PPC patch.

    So then forgive me if I seemed being rude here, but Tobias Netzel can't wait an eternity for his money, and perhaps if Fab or AmigaOS4 developers will tell me Netzel patch is rubbish I have the resposibility to return donors all their money sums.

    [ Edited by Raf_MegaByte 12.08.2016 - 13:32 ]
    Bill Gates "Think!", Steve Jobs: "Think different!" So... Let these guy continue blabbering thinking and enjoy computing! We are on Amiga!
  • »12.08.16 - 10:26
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    pampers
    Posts: 1061 from 2009/2/26
    From: Tczew, Poland
    Quote:

    None of developers had the politeness of advice me in almost three months, if they tested and judged as valid Mr. Netzel Javascript X86->PPC patch.


    Maybe they have better things to do. It's your bounty, not theirs.
    MorphOS 3.x
  • »12.08.16 - 11:39
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    In_Correct
    Posts: 245 from 2012/10/14
    From: DFW, TX, USA
    Quote:

    Raf_MegaByte wrote:
    Quote:

    pampers wrote:
    Who are you to order anyone to do something? Have you hired them or do you pay Deadwood or Fab? Think twice before posting such a rude post, it doesn't hurt, trust me.


    It seems to me that you understood a fish for a bird of the whole thread topic, and you have a pitiful memory of past threads here on Morphzone.

    Fab had problems solving endianess issues of Javascript engine.

    Almost five months ago I launched a bounty to collect money for a patch.

    Money was collected and Tobias Netzel claimed bounty prize.

    In my last posts into the bounty threads here on Morph.zone and on Amigaworld I asked politely AmigaOS OWB developers and MorphOS OWB developer (Fab) recommending them to please examine Tobias Netzel patch and report if it is real valid solution to solve endianess issues, in order to free bounty in favour of Mr. Netzel, so I could pay him.

    None of developers had the politeness of advice me in almost three months, if they tested and judged as valid Mr. Netzel Javascript X86->PPC patch.

    So then forgive me if I seemed being rude here, but Tobias Netzel can't wait an eternity for his money, and perhaps if Fab or AmigaOS4 developers will tell me Netzel patch is rubbish I have the resposibility to return donors all their money sums.


    If Fab, etc. have given you permission to start a bounty, then I see no problem. I do not believe you are rude. No need to ask forgiveness. ;-)
    :-) I Support Quark Microkernel. :-D
  • »12.08.16 - 11:46
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    In_Correct
    Posts: 245 from 2012/10/14
    From: DFW, TX, USA
    On the other hand, who is Tobias Netzel? Is he familiar with the no schedule policy for MorphOS? Why does Tobias expect timely procedure? Perhaps you should tell Tobias to wait Two More Weeks. :-D
    :-) I Support Quark Microkernel. :-D
  • »12.08.16 - 11:48
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  • MorphOS Developer
    jacadcaps
    Posts: 3029 from 2003/3/5
    From: Canada
    Fab's email isn't a secret. Please do email him and see if he is willing to help you with this. Is he even aware of this bounty? I'm not sure he's got enough spare time to be browsing mzone forums these days.


    [ Edited by jacadcaps 12.08.2016 - 09:54 ]
  • »12.08.16 - 12:53
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Raf_MegaByte
    Posts: 430 from 2004/10/10
    From: Nella grande r...
    Quote:

    jacadcaps wrote:
    Fab's email isn't a secret. Please do email him and see if he is willing to help you with this. Is he even aware of this bounty? I'm not sure he's got enough spare time to be browsing mzone forums these days.



    What do you think?

    https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=32&topic_id=11566&post_id=125152&viewmode=flat&sortorder=0&showonepost=1
    Bill Gates "Think!", Steve Jobs: "Think different!" So... Let these guy continue blabbering thinking and enjoy computing! We are on Amiga!
  • »12.08.16 - 13:05
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    amigadave
    Posts: 2795 from 2006/3/21
    From: Northern Calif...
    Quote:

    pampers wrote:
    Quote:

    None of developers had the politeness of advice me in almost three months, if they tested and judged as valid Mr. Netzel Javascript X86->PPC patch.


    Maybe they have better things to do. It's your bounty, not theirs.


    Is the patch available for other non-developers to test and submit bug reports, or confirm that it works? I would still like for Fab and Deadwood to also test and look at the patch code, when their free time allows such a code review, but until that happens, it seems to me that it would be a good idea to have as many other people testing the patch code on both AmigaOS4.x and MorphOS versions of OWB/Odyssey browsers.

    If simple instructions are available for installing the patch, I would even volunteer to do some testing on both OSes, as I have an X1000 running AmigaOS4.1FE, and several MorphOS capable systems with Odyssey installed.
    MorphOS - The best Next Gen Amiga choice.
  • »13.08.16 - 06:09
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12110 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Is the patch available for other non-developers to test and submit
    > bug reports, or confirm that it works?

    It's a source patch, not a binary patch, which should answer your question.
  • »13.08.16 - 07:32
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  • Order of the Butterfly
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    OlafSch
    Posts: 186 from 2011/11/16
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf schrieb:
    > Is the patch available for other non-developers to test and submit
    > bug reports, or confirm that it works?

    It's a source patch, not a binary patch, which should answer your question.


    and not integrated in OWB either
  • »13.08.16 - 13:15
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  • MorphOS Developer
    geit
    Posts: 1035 from 2004/9/23
    A source patch aka diff file can be applied to the source with more or less no work.

    The problem in this case is that you want to check each changed line, or new bugs or security holes could be introduced. Same goes for binary patches, where you need to trust the patch source.

    So unlike source patches from official sites, where people look into it all the time, in this case the diff needs to be checked, even if it applies perfect it could patch unrelated stuff (intentional or unintentional) or even patch the right things wrong (e.g. due copy and paste changes).

    So blindly throwing the stuff into the build system is a bad idea.

    This is not about this diff in detail, but about all diffs.

    Noone has use for a new crash bug that is caused a patched routine, which noone will check again, as it was supposed to be fixed by a diff before.

    [ Edited by geit 14.08.2016 - 01:32 ]
  • »13.08.16 - 22:28
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    amigadave
    Posts: 2795 from 2006/3/21
    From: Northern Calif...
    Quote:

    geit wrote:
    A source patch aka diff file can be applied to the source with more or less no work.

    The problem in this case is that you want to check each changed line, or new bugs or security holes could be introduced. Same goes for binary patches, where you need to trust the patch source.

    So unlike source patches from official sites, where people look into it all the time, in this case the diff needs to be checked, even if it applies perfect it could patch unrelated stuff (intentional or unintentional) or even patch the right things wrong (e.g. due copy and paste changes).

    So blindly throwing the stuff into the build system is a bad idea.

    This is not about this diff in detail, but about all diffs.

    Noone has use for a new crash bug that is caused a patched routine, which noone will check again, as it was supposed to be fixed by a diff before.


    So what is the usual solution to such a patch being provided by a (relatively) unknown source/developer?

    Can't it be applied to a copy of the source code to create a test binary, which could then be sent to several beta testers, to find out if it works as it should, and if it does not introduce new bugs, or break any existing function/feature of the original program?

    I obviously don't know what the usual procedure is, when a 3rd party developer/programmer, provides a source patch for an existing program, but would like to see this move forward, as having an updated Odyssey for MorphOS, and OWB for AmigaOS4.x, is a very important part of the user experience, in today's world, where web browsing is such an integral part of everyone's life.
    MorphOS - The best Next Gen Amiga choice.
  • »14.08.16 - 19:25
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  • Just looking around
    kasbah
    Posts: 5 from 2009/10/17
    Quote:

    amigadave wrote:
    So what is the usual solution to such a patch being provided by a (relatively) unknown source/developer?



    As geit wrote, the usual process would be to read and understand the changed lines in the patch source and then check it for possible security or functionality flaws. Then, if the author of the original source has confidence, he will apply the patch and rebuild the binary.

    So most of the work is not creating the new binary (easy task everyone can achieve by reading some general, not even morphos specific, documentation), but checking the source. This takes, depending on the size and complexity of the project and patch, quite some time. And as you might have guessed, a browser and his javascript engine is quite a complex application with tons of hard to predict side effects (which is what bugs and in particular security flaws are made of).
  • »14.08.16 - 22:57
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    ppcamiga1
    Posts: 215 from 2015/8/23
    That's why aros is shit. After api change to not compatible there are still old problems.
    Amiga Os/Mos on x86 should be just amiga gui and graphics on top of unix.
    No more "porting".
    On unix everything will just works.
  • »15.08.16 - 10:57
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Intuition
    Posts: 1110 from 2013/5/24
    From: Nederland
    Quote:

    ppcamiga1 wrote:
    That's why aros is shit. After api change to not compatible there are still old problems.
    Amiga Os/Mos on x86 should be just amiga gui and graphics on top of unix.
    No more "porting".
    On unix everything will just works.




    Knock yourself out: http://xwinman.org/amiwm.php
    1.67GHz 15" PowerBook G4, 1GB RAM, 128MB Radeon 9700M Pro, 64GB SSD, MorphOS 3.15

    2.7GHz DP G5, 4GB RAM, 512MB Radeon X1950 Pro, 500GB SSHD, MorphOS 3.9
  • »15.08.16 - 11:20
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12110 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > That's why aros is shit.

    Odyssey on AROS/x86 doesn't have any endianness problem in JavaScriptCore. Furthermore, JavaScriptCore JIT works on AROS/x86.

    > After api change to not compatible there are still old problems.

    There has been no "api change to not compatible".

    > Amiga Os/Mos on x86 should be just amiga gui and graphics on top of unix.
    > No more "porting". On unix everything will just works.

    How will non-ported "unix" software use "amiga gui and graphics"?
  • »15.08.16 - 11:31
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  • Jim
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    Jim
    Posts: 4977 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    ppcamiga1 wrote:
    That's why aros is shit. After api change to not compatible there are still old problems.
    Amiga Os/Mos on x86 should be just amiga gui and graphics on top of unix.
    No more "porting".
    On unix everything will just works.




    JFC are you repetitive.
    UNIX...ad infinitum.

    And the advantages of trying to get a micro kernel based OS to run on top of a monolithic kernel OS?
    What are they exactly?

    I can't really name many.
    Booting MorphOS really quickly after you have waited forever for UNIX to boot, maybe? ;)

    Look, there are micro kernel based UNIX-like OS', I used one from the '80s into the late '90s.
    But they don't have full *NIX compatibility.
    And the basic philosophies behind UNIX and MorphOS are really dissimilar.

    So no matter how I try to wrap my brain around your ideas, giving you more of the benefit of doubt than I probably should, I still fall far short of understanding your point.

    By the way UNIX (and UNIX-like OS') don't "just work".
    Trust me, I have typed in more than a few command lines into shells running under those kinds of OS'.
    Sometimes the command line that looks like complete gibberish. And it works.
    On other occasions, what you type in what you think should work only to have the OS something unexpected or simply really down right weird, sending demonic processes spinning off to do God only knows what damage.
    Its definitely not an easy to use "it just works" environment.

    I can not even come up with a close for this comment.
    Its like trying to communicate with someone at a distance, who is also speaking another language.
    Shouting doesn't help, because even if they hear you they still don't get it.



    [ Edited by Jim 15.08.2016 - 10:44 ]
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »15.08.16 - 13:42
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    amigadave
    Posts: 2795 from 2006/3/21
    From: Northern Calif...
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:
    Its like trying to communicate with someone at a distance, who is also speaking another language.
    Shouting doesn't help, because even if they hear you they still don't get it.



    Don't even bother to try to communicate with that obsessed idiot. He just keeps repeating the same idiotic crap, over and over again, with no clear evidence to support his claims, and no idea of how he, or anyone else could create a more "Unix" like version of AmigaOS/MorphOS/AROS.

    I really don't know why he is even here on this forum site, when he clearly is only interested in running and using Unix, or a Unix like OS. Surely he is not stupid enough to think that he is actually going to convince any MorphOS users to switch to Unix, so I can only guess that he just likes stirring up crap and getting into arguments with people who think differently than himself, and that he likes the attention he gets from posting such arguments and silly messages, here on this forum site. Some people will do almost anything to get attention.
    MorphOS - The best Next Gen Amiga choice.
  • »15.08.16 - 22:10
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    TheMagicM
    Posts: 1218 from 2003/6/17
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:


    By the way UNIX (and UNIX-like OS') don't "just work".
    Trust me, I have typed in more than a few command lines into shells running under those kinds of OS'.
    Sometimes the command line that looks like complete gibberish. And it works.
    On other occasions, what you type in what you think should work only to have the OS something unexpected or simply really down right weird, sending demonic processes spinning off to do God only knows what damage.
    Its definitely not an easy to use "it just works" environment.




    My Dad is 78 and has been using Linux for years. He's not an IT guy. He just wanted something that "just works". Its been working for him for a long time.
  • »15.08.16 - 23:17
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  • rob
  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    rob
    Posts: 139 from 2008/7/22
    Quote:

    amigadave wrote:
    I really don't know why he is even here on this forum site, when he clearly is only interested in running and using Unix, or a Unix like OS. Surely he is not stupid enough to think that he is actually going to convince any MorphOS users to switch to Unix, so I can only guess that he just likes stirring up crap and getting into arguments with people who think differently than himself, and that he likes the attention he gets from posting such arguments and silly messages, here on this forum site. Some people will do almost anything to get attention.


    It wouldn't come as a surprise if he turned out to be another of Thierry's sock puppets.
  • »16.08.16 - 16:49
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Intuition
    Posts: 1110 from 2013/5/24
    From: Nederland
    Quote:

    rob wrote:
    Quote:

    amigadave wrote:
    I really don't know why he is even here on this forum site, when he clearly is only interested in running and using Unix, or a Unix like OS. Surely he is not stupid enough to think that he is actually going to convince any MorphOS users to switch to Unix, so I can only guess that he just likes stirring up crap and getting into arguments with people who think differently than himself, and that he likes the attention he gets from posting such arguments and silly messages, here on this forum site. Some people will do almost anything to get attention.


    It wouldn't come as a surprise if he turned out to be another of Thierry's sock puppets.


    Poor Thierry, he gets blamed for all the loony accounts now lol

    The constant anti-Gunnar (and anything associated with him) would certainly seem to fit the M.O of a ”spurned lover” though; and he was extremely in love with the Natami at one point.
    1.67GHz 15" PowerBook G4, 1GB RAM, 128MB Radeon 9700M Pro, 64GB SSD, MorphOS 3.15

    2.7GHz DP G5, 4GB RAM, 512MB Radeon X1950 Pro, 500GB SSHD, MorphOS 3.9
  • »16.08.16 - 16:59
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