AROS for 68k question
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    ppcamiga1
    Posts: 215 from 2015/8/23
    Yes of course.
  • »01.08.16 - 04:04
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    OlafSch
    Posts: 186 from 2011/11/16
    Quote:

    amigadave schrieb:
    Quote:

    ppcamiga1 wrote:
    There is no reason to use natami/vampire/apollo in 640x480 8bit.
    All test should be made at least at 800x600 16 bit.


    Since 90% of all software ever written for the original Amiga was written to use 640x480 8bit, or LOWER resolutions and color depths, it certainly makes the MOST sense to test the Vampire boards and Apollo cores at such resolutions and color bit depths.

    You make no sense! In your lame attempts to discredit the Vampire & Vampire2 boards, you clearly don't know what other Amiga users want to use them for. Do you even own or use any Amiga, or Amiga inspired computers or software with emulation any more?

    Please go back to your Windows and Unix/Linux forums, and stop this nonsense criticizing something you have no interest in ever buying, and cannot objectively evaluate, due to your irrational feelings and behavior toward Gunnar. The only thing you are doing here is making a fool of yourself. I am done wasting my time replying to anything you have to say. If this site had a blocking feature, I would put you on the list, so I wouldn't have to see any more of your nonsense postings.

    [ Edited by amigadave 31.07.2016 - 06:01 ]


    Do not waste your time on him... he is not understanding and will never understand. There are already 200 cards delivered and lots more ordered, after version for A600 new cards for A500 and A1200 in preparation and I think there are also plans to support the big boxes. In amiga terms it is a very successful project and obviously satisfying a real need, all customers I read of are very happy. And if "never-buyers" like him like the project or not is completely irrelevant.
  • »01.08.16 - 11:03
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12073 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    >> Hombre made it to prototype stage?

    > Yes of course.

    Any references to back this up?
  • »01.08.16 - 15:09
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    ppcamiga1
    Posts: 215 from 2015/8/23
    Quote:

    Any references to back this up?


    Use google.
  • »01.08.16 - 17:09
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    ppcamiga1
    Posts: 215 from 2015/8/23
    Olaf Schickelgruber aka Schönweiss is well known powerpc hater.

    Natami/vampire/apollo crap was announced many years ago as revolution in amiga, but after many years of lies performance of Natami/vampire/apollo crap is still little slower than 68060.

    It is sad that phase5 20 years ago made faster cards for amiga.
  • »01.08.16 - 17:19
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12073 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    >>>> Hombre made it to prototype stage?

    >>> Yes of course.

    >> Any references to back this up?

    > Use google.

    I take this as a 'no'. Using Google I've found no indication of an actual working Hombre prototype. It was all 'on paper', or maybe even simulation.
  • »01.08.16 - 21:00
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12073 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > performance of Natami/vampire/apollo crap is still little slower than 68060.

    Depends on 68060 clock rate.
  • »01.08.16 - 21:03
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    amigadave
    Posts: 2794 from 2006/3/21
    From: Northern Calif...
    Quote:

    OlafSch wrote:
    Do not waste your time on him... he is not understanding and will never understand. There are already 200 cards delivered and lots more ordered, after version for A600 new cards for A500 and A1200 in preparation and I think there are also plans to support the big boxes. In amiga terms it is a very successful project and obviously satisfying a real need, all customers I read of are very happy. And if "never-buyers" like him like the project or not is completely irrelevant.


    Yes, I am done with that idiot. I just wish there were a block function on this forum, so I could turn it on and never see any of his ridiculous posts again.

    Like the FPGA Arcade Replay boards before the Vampire (and by a different person), I wish that both groups/persons responsible for arranging the manufacturing of those products would design and produce them using the cheapest and fastest production methods available, so the users who want to buy them did not have to wait for one or two people to hand assemble every board.

    Once the cores for either product are stable enough to release to the general public, then it would be great if they were mass produced in batches of at least 100 to 200 at a time, and available for purchase from all the remaining Amiga retail outlets, who are set up better for distribution and shipping to all countries.

    Maybe we would see one or two thousand boards already sold, instead of only a couple hundred for the Vampire 1 & 2 boards, and I think less than that for the FPGA Arcade Replay boards. I don't even see any news about the FPGA Arcade Replay board anymore, so I don't know if that project has been abandoned, or if MikeJ is still working on it and plans to release the daughter board with the socket for a real 68060, Ethernet port, additional USB ports, etc.

    FPGA Amiga projects are obviously very popular these days and demand for them is far above current production capabilities of the people working on them. Just think of the possibilities if either product were cheaply available with no waiting, and how much faster they could improve, if they open sourced their core code, so they would get many more people working on fine tuning the emulation and adding the proposed SAGA features? Okay, not open source the 68060 core code, as that might have some commercial value, once they get it working well enough to replace real 680x0 chips in embedded products that still use such chips, if there is still any demand for any 680x0 chips, and if higher performance is even needed in those embedded applications.

    I would just like to see any of these projects go beyond the 200 to 300 user base, by exciting a few thousand former Amiga users, and bringing them back to our community, with an interesting, new, powerful (in Amiga terms), and fun little hacker board, plus the already planned for accelerators for different models of the Commodore Amiga.

    I for one would want a board similar to the Raspberry Pi, but using the tech that the Dennis VanWereen, Mike J. & the Apollo Team, have created on FPGA, instead of the ARM architecture. With the progress the Apollo Team has made creating a soft core P96 display, plus the already stable and fairly accurate emulation of the Amiga custom chips that is running on the MiniMig, Mist, Chameleon, Arcade Replay & Vampire1&2, plus the 680x0 soft core from the Apollo Team, I can envision a stand alone board being available in the not too distant future, that will be only slightly bigger, and more power hungry, than the original Raspberry Pi board.

    Put the right size FPGA on it to allow a few extra input/output pins, and let the Amiga community create all kinds of great applications and uses for it, using the much more familiar and friendly AmigaOS3.x, that the user base refuses to let go of, after 30 years.

    [ Edited by amigadave 01.08.2016 - 16:58 ]
    MorphOS - The best Next Gen Amiga choice.
  • »01.08.16 - 22:44
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    ernsteiswuerfel
    Posts: 545 from 2015/6/18
    From: Funeralopolis
    Quote:

    ppcamiga1 schrieb:
    Olaf Schickelgruber aka Schönweiss is well known powerpc hater.


    I think you've way overdone it with this 'Schickelgruber' comparison! It's about computers after all...

    Also I don't understand this mentality of mutual exclusion which is unfortunately rather common in the Amiga community. I use both, classic Amigas and PPC Amigas, so what? If some day MorphOS gets ported to x86 should I hate it because it's neither 680x0 or PPC?
    Talos II. [Gentoo Linux] | PMac G5 11,2. PMac G4 3,6. PBook G4 5,8. [MorphOS 3.18 / Gentoo Linux] | Vampire V4 SA [ApolloOS / Amiga OS 3.2.2]
  • »01.08.16 - 22:48
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    amigadave
    Posts: 2794 from 2006/3/21
    From: Northern Calif...
    Thanks for the links, but on the latest version of Firefox for Windows, the register buttons on Majsta'a site do not work. Has he cut off sales because there is too much demand? I will check kipper2k's site, as maybe that is the only place to order a Vampire v2 from now.
    MorphOS - The best Next Gen Amiga choice.
  • »02.08.16 - 02:08
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    OlafSch
    Posts: 186 from 2011/11/16
    Quote:

    ppcamiga1 schrieb:
    Olaf Schickelgruber aka Schönweiss is well known powerpc hater.

    Natami/vampire/apollo crap was announced many years ago as revolution in amiga, but after many years of lies performance of Natami/vampire/apollo crap is still little slower than 68060.

    It is sad that phase5 20 years ago made faster cards for amiga.






    your wording speaks for your mental state...

    [ Editiert durch OlafSch 02.08.2016 - 11:25 ]
  • »02.08.16 - 09:11
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    OlafSch
    Posts: 186 from 2011/11/16
    @Amigadave

    Regarding production of Vampires it seems that they change production with the new models for A500 and A1200 with advantage of faster production and disadvantage of being more expensive. On the other hand if product has proven to be useful and satisfies the customers people will be willing to pay more for it if they get it faster. Will be interesting to see where it heads, f.e. is a version of pcx and fusion (as commercial products in special vampire/apollo versions) announced, they even extend the core for it. Another important step will be when FPU is officially added. In opposite to our "historian" I do not see speed as main problem because most people do not see it as a competition to their workhorses but as a pure hobby. The main problem will be software developers who will develop special software versions for it making use of the new features. Current compilers do not support it, some of them could of course because sources available but still you need someone to do it.
  • »02.08.16 - 09:24
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    amigadave
    Posts: 2794 from 2006/3/21
    From: Northern Calif...
    Quote:

    OlafSch wrote:
    Quote:

    ppcamiga1 schrieb:
    Olaf Schickelgruber aka Schönweiss is well known powerpc hater.

    Natami/vampire/apollo crap was announced many years ago as revolution in amiga, but after many years of lies performance of Natami/vampire/apollo crap is still little slower than 68060.

    It is sad that phase5 20 years ago made faster cards for amiga.






    your wording speaks for your mental state...

    [ Editiert durch OlafSch 02.08.2016 - 11:25 ]


    If you ever have the opportunity to chat with Gunnar via IRC, ask him if he knows who this ppcamiga1 idiot is, and why he is on this ridiculous "crusade", trying to discredit Gunnar's work. What personal vendetta does this guy have against Gunnar I wonder, as his behavior is certainly not rational?
    MorphOS - The best Next Gen Amiga choice.
  • »03.08.16 - 20:09
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    OlafSch
    Posts: 186 from 2011/11/16
    @Amigadave

    Gunnar is sometimes perhaps a little too enthusiastic and he can be very harsh so some people dislike him but even if you do not like him at least he has delivered something in opposite to many others who only talked and then disappeared. I can remember one guy popping up on amiga.org asking what hardware people want and making lots of promises and be angry after some people were doubtful. That was the last time this person was seen. Or another guy who popped up saying what aros devs did was crap and he has rewritten it but never showed something and then disappeared, popped up on atari forum, again making promises and then finally disappeared. In the meantime it seems to me that the amiga community attracts weird people (I of course do not want to say with this everyone is weird). That includes fanatic people who see a hobby as a kind of religion and every critic or different opinion as blasphemy insulting and attacking everyone. That can be the used processor or OS. For me it is strange, we had terror attacks nearby recently, I have my work in real world in 2016 and normal private life and so on. There are thousands of things more important than a hobby.
  • »04.08.16 - 09:33
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    amigadave
    Posts: 2794 from 2006/3/21
    From: Northern Calif...
    I agree, life is too short to get upset about some inanimate object(s), it is people, family & friends, who are important. Not these toys that we all like to play with, and some take more seriously. Real life issues, specially social problems all over the world, are far more important than any hobby, no matter how fond you or I may be of that hobby, but unfortunately, as you said, this community seems to attract more than its fair share of "weird" people.
    MorphOS - The best Next Gen Amiga choice.
  • »04.08.16 - 13:40
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12073 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > the Apollo core [...] has vector support also.

    Interestingly, Apollo's AMMX SIMD instruction set appears to be an (enhanced) reimplementation of Intel's MMX SIMD instruction set, bearing the following implications:

    "AMMX is the 68k version of the notorious MMX instruction set from INTEL. [...] AMMX does implement INTEL well known MMX instruction set. [...] the MMX operations are now also available on 68k [...]. If you are experience in coding MMX then you can use AMMX out of the box. [...] Both support the same type of operations. [...] MMX code can be compiled 1to1 to AMMX now [...]. [...] MMX code can now be run on AMIGA [...]. [...] AMMX implements many operants 100% like MMX."
    http://www.apollo-core.com/knowledge.php?note=1897

    Apparently, the original plan to use Intel's newer SSE SIMD instruction set didn't work out.

    http://www.apollo-core.com/knowledge.php?note=1108
  • »23.08.16 - 15:30
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4977 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Wow, the forum you referenced looks just like the old Natami forum, Andreas.
    And this time it for a product not made of unobtanium.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »24.08.16 - 19:04
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12073 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > the forum you referenced looks just like the old Natami forum

    Indeed, it does. The Apollo forum was opened 9 months ago. Btw, it has been linked to several times in this very thread, the first time 2½ months ago in comment #76.
    The NatAmi website incl. forum has not been reachable for some days.

    http://www.apollo-core.com/knowledge.php?note=2092
  • »24.08.16 - 20:21
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    ppcamiga1
    Posts: 215 from 2015/8/23
    I am a very busy man, but after a couple of months, I have enough free time to take a look at the Amiga and compatible.

    It is sad there is still no progres in natami/apollo/vampire.
    Vampire with gold core is still slower than 68060 80 MHz.
    Only 5 MHz better than 20 years old 68060 cards for Amiga.
    And still slower than good old 7100 100 Mhz PA-RISC which Commodore use in prototypes before bankruptcy.
    Still there is no fpu.

    Next year we Amiga users will celebrate the 20th anniversary of the release of PPC Amiga cards.

    gunnar von boehn has less than a year to catch up these cards with performance.
  • »13.11.16 - 17:05
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    tolkien
    Posts: 502 from 2013/5/29
    Vampire slower than a 060 80MHz? Then they must be great coders making Riva a lot faster. I think we are watching different Vampires. In the FPU support you are right...Damn It!


    [ Editado por tolkien 13.11.2016 - 18:26 ]
    MorphOS: PowerMac G5 - PowerBook G4 - MacMini.
    Classic: Amiga 1200/060 - A500 PiStorm
  • »13.11.16 - 18:20
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12073 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Only 5 MHz better than 20 years old 68060 cards for Amiga.

    MHz is not a performance benchmark, except between cores of the very same microarchitecture.

    >>>>>> Hombre made it to prototype stage?

    >>>>> Yes of course.

    >>>> Any references to back this up?

    >>> Use google.

    >> I take this as a 'no'. Using Google I've found no indication of an actual working
    >> Hombre prototype. It was all 'on paper', or maybe even simulation.

    > 7100 100 Mhz PA-RISC which Commodore use in prototypes

    You're still failing to back this up.
  • »13.11.16 - 19:52
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    ppcamiga1
    Posts: 215 from 2015/8/23
    75 MHz were old 060 apollo cards. It was 20 years ago. natami/apollo/vampire is only 5 MHz faster.
    Good old 7100 are still available. Buy and do some test.
  • »13.11.16 - 21:05
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