Hello Morphers, I have some questions to ask the ommunity:

Issue 1)

More than often I encountered a MorphOS Filesystem Warning message at boot:

It may vary the block number, but more or less it says that:

Quote:

Pop up Warning Windows has two choices

Continue - No More requesters

Clicking on "continue" it seems system working flawlessly, but after some dozens reboots or restarts it reappears.

So then:


Option A)

Should I validate Hard Disk


Option B)

Save Data and reformat partition DH1:?


Option C)

Start seriously worrying that my Seagate ST9808210A 80 GB UDMA 4200RPM is at least aging and becoming unstable, and should buy another one?


And here my issues:

Upto now I never encountered any loss of data, but in the meanwhile last week I bought an external Firewre/ESata Enclosure 3,5" SATA HD Standard for about 25 euro and I am planning to put in it 1TB unit, in order to backup my system and have a FireWire boot external drive on which installing MacOS as second Operating System.


And also I want to buy a 320 GB IDE 2,5" as internal standard device:

But SURPRISE!

Early MacMini G4 computers does not support units more than 128 GB Units... O_O


What a Apple dirty joke SH°@#!


However this limit does not afflict latest G4 machines and G5.


Question I)

I have MacMini G4 clocked at 1,415 GHz, am I out of danger and can install any kind of hard disks, or am I stuck to a limit of 128GB hard disks?


Question II)

Does this limit afflicts only MacOS and I can format, partitioning and use external 1TB 3,5" unit and internal 320 GB Hard Disk from MorphOS, or is it a limit of the IDE electronics?

If I can manage big data units thru MorphOS, Should I be able to reserve space for N number of MacOS partitions MAX of 128 GB and the system will see it with no problems?

Thank you in advance for any kind answer.

[ Edited by Raf_MegaByte 28.05.2016 - 19:41 ]

I guess your harddrive is broken. Never heard about a hard drive size limit.

You cannot create a partition bigger than 127GB with MorphOS and SFS and there is a size limit for the HFS Boot Partition. Everythinig else should work. But I would not get some 320GB model as those are probably quite old and expensive. The 160GB Model I have in my mini was quiet expensive back then.

Since you need IDE I would go for some 2.5" mSATA interface (DeLock) and some mSATA SSD. Those are available in bigger sizes and even if you just go for 250GB the speed benefits are great.

[ Edited by geit 28.05.2016 - 21:09 ]

> Early MacMini G4 computers does not support units more than 128 GB Units

This is certainly not true. The original Mac mini G4 (1.25 or 1.42 GHz, 32 MiB VRAM) is not more limited in this regard than "silent upgrade" Mac mini G4 (1.33 GHz with 32 MiB VRAM, or 1.5 GHz with 64 MiB VRAM).

> I have MacMini G4 clocked at 1,415 GHz, am I out of danger and can install
> any kind of hard disks, or am I stuck to a limit of 128GB hard disks?

There is no such limit with any Mac mini G4.

> Does this limit afflicts only MacOS and I can format, partitioning and use external 1TB 3,5"
> unit and internal 320 GB Hard Disk from MorphOS, or is it a limit of the IDE electronics?

https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=7586&forum=9&start=7

> Should I be able to reserve space for N number of MacOS partitions MAX of 128 GB
> and the system will see it with no problems?

Yes, you should be able to do this, but there is no need to restrict MacOS partitions to 128 GiB. Filesystem for MacOS system partition should be HFS+, which MorphOS has read support for.

Quote:

Option D) try avoid booting too soon after writing to HD?

I get these occasionally too, but I've tought that they happen if I've booted or crashed too soon after writing to HD... never done anything for them anyway. sfscheck reports drives being OK after that at least...

Quote:

Drivelamps.sbar is your friend here, as it shows drive leds with optional enlarged active state..

Quote:

But according to the discussions I read, there is a real problem 128GB IDE limit issue.

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/3279370?start=0

http://lowendmac.com/2005/how-big-hard-drive-imac-emac-power-mac-powerbook-ibook/

http://www.mac-forums.com/apple-desktops/149156-hdd-exceeds-128gb-limitations.html

And the limit resides (ouch!) right in the IDE bus.


For MAC it exists this solution

http://www.intechusa.com/

But I don't know if it works as a patch at Firmware level, or if it splits Hard Disk in multiple 127GB partitions visible by the system, or if it installs a patch in any partition header at Filesystem level.

That's all from Mac side... And what about from MorphOS side?


[ Edited by Raf_MegaByte 29.05.2016 - 13:19 ]

Quote:

Actually it only crashed OWB due to notorious Javascript memory eating bug, I simply quitted it and RAM was almost completely freed.
Then I performed some offline activities with paint program ArtEffect encountering no crash neither hang-ups, and in the end I shutdown machine.

I encountered various times OWB RAM eating crashes and yes OWB is installed on DH1:

Did OWB leave some temporary files open on the hard disk after memory crash, despite the fact it was correctly closed clicking "QUIT" on its death pop-up window?

Not closing all files when quitting thru death or meditation window. Is this another OWB bug we should take care of?

-----

At least, from what you people said, it seems that my Hard Disk is not broken and SFS managed to fix HD bitmap and Filesystem resident blocks with ease, but sure sooner of later Hard Disk will start show signals it is aging and will require a replacement.

It is better to stay ready for the future and check carefully if big drives can be installed into MacMini.

[ Edited by Raf_MegaByte 29.05.2016 - 13:07 ]

Quote:

Sure I can't. I know SFS limits.

Actually I use SFS from existing installation by Dr.MorbiusFP who previously owned my machine, and sold me MacMini with a perfect functioning MorphOS system newly installed.

On new Hard disk of 320GB that I intend to buy, I am planning installing MorhpOS on a 80 GB SFS partition and then formatting all free space for progs, work and data partitions in ICEFS that suffer no limits.


Quote:

That seems not a big issue for me, as I keep only boot.img files in it...


[ Edited by Raf_MegaByte 29.05.2016 - 13:10 ]

Important:

In the second link that I provided there is stated that FIREWIRE is NOT affected by the 128 GB size limit.

Quote:

I usually relaunch OWB myself before it "crashes" in low memory situation, but if it slips to that crash accidently, it shouldn't be harmful. But as it seems to make some kind of hit to the MorphOS debug log on my setup, I usually reboot the machine at that point to be sure it doesn't trash anything else. I haven't got SFS error because of that usually.. in the occasional pretty rare situations it happens to me.

But do you wait a little before rebooting after quitting those other programs? You may have had a write to HD when quitting them if you have saved your edited image or if ArtEffect writes to its swapfile (where does it reside on your setup?) or something like that.

I don't think it's about file closing, but the actual writing anyway... if it's about it at all.


Quote:

I don't have big enough suitable drives to test myself.. only have a faster 120GB drive waiting when I dare/bother to open my mini to replace its original 80GB drive :) But surely would like to hear if there really is some incompatibility with bigger drives.

[ Edited by jPV 29.05.2016 - 14:09 ]

Quote:

Uhm... Yes. I installed ArtEffect in the DH1:. I never heard of Art Effect swapfile. That could be a clue.

>>> Early MacMini G4 computers does not support units more than 128 GB Units

>> This is certainly not true. The original Mac mini G4 (1.25 or 1.42 GHz, 32 MiB VRAM)
>> is not more limited in this regard than "silent upgrade" Mac mini G4 (1.33 GHz with
>> 32 MiB VRAM, or 1.5 GHz with 64 MiB VRAM).

>>> I have MacMini G4 clocked at 1,415 GHz, am I out of danger and can install
>>> any kind of hard disks, or am I stuck to a limit of 128GB hard disks?

>> There is no such limit with any Mac mini G4.

> But according to the discussions I read, there is a real problem 128GB IDE limit issue.

On Mac mini G4? Really?

> I don't know [...] if it splits Hard Disk in multiple partitios visible by the
> system, or if it installs a patch in any partition header at Filesystem level.

The 128 GiB limit of the PATA controller acts on device level of course, not on partition or filesystem level.

> it only crashed OWB due to notorious Javascript memory eating bug,
> I simply quitted it and RAM was almost completely freed.

It was not a crash then.

> Did OWB leave some temporary files open on the hard disk after memory crash,
> despite the fact it was correctly closed clicking "QUIT" on its death pop-up
> window? Not closing all files when quitting thru death or meditation window.

Not closing files cannot result in filesystem corruption as long as there has been no disrupted write access.

> It is better to [...] check carefully if big drives can be installed into MacMini.

You already got the answer.

Quote:

Words of Apple users and pros, not mine.

Is there anyone in MorphOS land who ever tried installing big size IDE hard disks on their Mac Mini G4, and could tell us his experience?

Quote:

Sure but maybe controller device could be tricked by passing it magic data that override its limit directly from partition header... who knows?

[ Edited by Raf_MegaByte 29.05.2016 - 13:37 ]

> In the second link that I provided there is stated that FIREWIRE is NOT affected
> by the 128 GB size limit.

This statement is also in cyfm's comment I linked to in comment #3.

>> On Mac mini G4? Really?

> Words of Apple users and pros, not mine.

Can you quote these words, please?

> Is there anyone in MorphOS land who ever tried installing big size
> IDE hard disks on their Mac Mini G4, and could tell us his experience?

MorphZone is full of Mac mini G4 users who successfully use HDDs >128 GiB with on-board PATA controller. Just three random threads:

https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=6743&forum=11
https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=6966&forum=11
https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=8212&forum=11

> maybe controller device could be tricked by passing it magic data that
> override its limit directly from partition header... who knows?

PATA controller doesn't know anything about partitions.

Quote:

Well Andreas, IMHO it is better to write it clearly for the benefit of other MorphOS users who are reading avidly this discussion that raised important questions for our platform, and make them aware FW has no limits WITHOUT necessity of consulting the links that first you, and then me provided, as Firewire information could pass un-noticed with just a quick external site visit, but leave also the links just as a reference, for those who want confirmed this fact from a direct source.

That's all. There was no intention to diminish the links you provided first.

> Firewire information could pass un-noticed with just a quick external site visit

The comment I linked to is on this very site :-)

> There was no intention to diminish the links you provided first.

No offense taken. It's just that I was under the impression you ignored the content of cyfm's insightful comment as you didn't refer to it but to an external comment you linked to in a later posting.

Quote:

I beg your pardon Andreas but now I felt like being joked by you.

However if that is your wish, here it is:

Quote:


Quote:

There are dozens discussion like these in Mac sites on the web, and I read only those in english and italian that is my native language...

Should I quote also these and perhaps some in german for your benefit?

Geez, dude... What's the problem with you? Take a breath and relax...

Old PowerMacs up to the Quicksilvers had an issue that prevented >128GB out of the box.

That limit was lifted with the MDD models in 2002, the Mini was introduced in 2005 and offcourse shipped with firmware capable of supporting such large drives.

> now I felt like being joked by you. However if that is your wish, here it is: [...]

I may have reason to feel joked by you as your first quote doesn't contain anything about a >128 GiB HDD problem on Mac mini G4, and your second quote doesn't refer to Mac mini G4 but to other machines and moreover says that there *may* be a >128 GiB HDD problem (i.e. under certain circumstances) with these types of machines.

> There are dozens discussion like these in Mac sites on the web

Show me one that definitely states that there is a >128 GiB HDD problem with any Mac mini G4 model.

> Should I quote also these and perhaps some in german for your benefit?

English or German preferred, yes.

> What's the problem with you?

There's no problem at my end. You are the one claiming nonsense things and ignoring answers to questions (cyfm's comment I linked to in comment #3 says everything there is to say about the >128 GiB HDD problem really).

> Take a breath and relax...

As soon as you stop the nonsense claims and the ignorance.

> That limit was lifted with the MDD models in 2002

Actually, it was lifted even earlier with the Quicksilver 2002 models.

https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=7586&forum=9&start=16

-

[ Edited by Kronos 29.05.2016 - 18:11 ]

Quote:


I do not master German very well, but this discussion should deal with same problems we talk in our thread:


http://www.computerbase.de/forum/showthread.php?t=1170520



Quote:

That's a stupid statement from a smart person like you as long as people make questions right to exit from their ignorance.

Quote:

The fact this limit has been removed with Quicksilver doesn't explain why some macMini users encounters problems when upgrading their machines with new bigger Hard Disks...

Could it be batches of Ide controllers chip that Apple bought at a cheaper price and mounted on MacMini, or incompatibility with some families of Hard Disks electronics that causes the fault.

I read Western Digital 320, and Samsung are more prone not being recognized.

Unfortunately almost all 3,5" and 2,5" IDE Hard Disks of big dimensions still on the market are right from Western Digital.

[EDIT]

As long as none was capable to answer me. I decided to buy a 320GB IDE 2,5" and test myself, and being a guinea pig for the sake of the MorphOS platform.

I am planning to buy this model, and the price is almost good.

http://www.ebay.it/itm/WD-2-5-320GB-HDD-IDE-PATA-5400-RPM-Internal-Hard-Disk-Drive-Per-Laptops-PC-/182056198217?hash=item2a63652049:g:MB0AAOSwv9hW6Lpl

I just need to collect necessary money in the next weeks.

I know a repair center 2 kilometers from home, whose owner is very capable, and he is a macholic, so I think there will be no problem for him to open my MacMini and installing this replacement disk.

If I encounter any 128GB issue I will report in this thread.

[ Edited by Raf_MegaByte 29.05.2016 - 21:49 ]