Best graphics card for PowerMac G5 1.6 (No PCI-X), MorphOS 3
  • Caterpillar
    Caterpillar
    drphil
    Posts: 36 from 2015/11/28
    From: New Zealand
    Is 128MB VRAM enough for MorphOS? Or is it better to future proof and get a card with 256MB card instead?

    Phil

    Standdown on that

    Just saw this post

    > https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=7991&forum=38&start=2

    [ Edited by drphil 02.12.2015 - 13:57 ]
    1.6Ghz PowerMac G5, 2GB RAM, 80GB HDD, MorphOS 3.9.

    Why make life difficult when with a bit of effort you can make it impossible
  • »01.12.15 - 23:05
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Yasu
    Posts: 1724 from 2012/3/22
    From: Stockholm, Sweden
    128 is enough :-)

    [edit] My card has 256 MB and it's all recognised (I think, I can't test it anymore).

    [ Edited by Yasu 02.12.2015 - 11:34 ]
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  • »02.12.15 - 09:33
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    connor
    Posts: 570 from 2007/7/29
    If 128MB is enough? It depends how many screens and windows you open in which resolution and bit depth.
  • »02.12.15 - 12:23
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Yasu
    Posts: 1724 from 2012/3/22
    From: Stockholm, Sweden
    @connor

    True. I guess if you want to open 10 screens at the same time in high resolution and play Quake 3 at the same time it won't be enough. But for common use of MorphOS it's enough. I have 64 MB VRAM on my Mac Mini and by having Enhanced Display off it's enough, but it's best then not to open a lot of screens.

    256 MB _is_ better of course, but you won't feel that handicaped by 128 MB either.
    AMIGA FORUM - Hela Sveriges Amigatidning!
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  • »02.12.15 - 13:07
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  • Caterpillar
    Caterpillar
    drphil
    Posts: 36 from 2015/11/28
    From: New Zealand
    I usually run 1920x1080 on a single screen with just a few apps running at the moment

    The number of apps running in the background will increase as I load more stuff on my G5 :-)

    Thanks guys

    Phil
    1.6Ghz PowerMac G5, 2GB RAM, 80GB HDD, MorphOS 3.9.

    Why make life difficult when with a bit of effort you can make it impossible
  • »02.12.15 - 20:24
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  • jPV
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    jPV
    Posts: 2021 from 2003/2/24
    From: po-RNO
    I'm using 1920x1080x24bit with at least two screens all the time (enhanced Ambient and non-enhanced OWB), and then occasionally third screen for ShowGirls or other bigger apps (I keep them non-enhanced too), and 64MB on my Mac mini is just about enough. I get some slowdowns indicating that there isn't enough gfx memory sometimes, but just occasionally. So, I'd say 128MB would be quite nice for the most situations :)


    [ Edited by jPV 03.12.2015 - 15:19 ]
  • »03.12.15 - 12:18
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  • Caterpillar
    Caterpillar
    drphil
    Posts: 36 from 2015/11/28
    From: New Zealand
    Quote:

    jPV Wrote:
    I'm using 1920x1080x24bit with at least two screens all the time (enhanced Ambient and non-enhanced OWB), and then occasionally third screen for ShowGirls or other bigger apps (I keep them non-enhanced too), and 64MB on my Mac mini is just about enough. I get some slowdowns indicating that there isn't enough gfx memory sometimes, but just occasionally. So, I'd say 128MB would be quite nice for the most situations :)


    Phew, thats good, I was all worried that 128mb was on the low side!
    1.6Ghz PowerMac G5, 2GB RAM, 80GB HDD, MorphOS 3.9.

    Why make life difficult when with a bit of effort you can make it impossible
  • »03.12.15 - 20:49
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  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    Sergio
    Posts: 90 from 2005/2/16
    Quote:

    amigadave wrote:
    but will be interested to read what you find out, and if you can get your system working the way you want.


    What I found out : with a PCI Mac Radeon and an AGP PC Radeon, mac boot wil display on the PCI one, and so will MOS. Since they are both radeons, there's no way I can use the AGP one under MOS.

    Another (weird) thing : I have a reflashed 9800 and a real-Mac 9600. The 9800 will work in my G5 and my G4. The 9600-G4 combination just won't boot. Oh god, why?

    Last but not least, it seems PC AGP radeons won't work at all. I have tried both an X800 and an X1950 in both the G4 and th G5 and nothing happens. I thought MOS (3.9 on both G4 and G5) could make use of them, even if Mac boot couldn't. :(

    Anyone has a clue on this last point? Cause I want to avoid reflashing, if possible...
  • »20.12.15 - 16:08
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12058 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > The 9600-G4 combination just won't boot. Oh god, why?

    Could be this:

    https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=7990&forum=11&start=2
    https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=9596&forum=11&start=1

    > it seems PC AGP radeons won't work at all. I have tried both an X800 and an X1950 in
    > both the G4 and th G5 and nothing happens. I thought MOS (3.9 on both G4 and G5)
    > could make use of them, even if Mac boot couldn't. :( Anyone has a clue on this last point?

    X1950 on G5 should work, but neither X800 nor G4 should.
  • »20.12.15 - 16:58
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  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    Sergio
    Posts: 90 from 2005/2/16
    To be more precise, my G4 is a MDD (Powermac3.5) and the X1950 is a X1950 GT.
  • »20.12.15 - 17:48
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4977 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    Sergio wrote:
    To be more precise, my G4 is a MDD (Powermac3.5) and the X1950 is a X1950 GT.



    That combination should work.
    While I don't recommend higher drawing cards for the G4 PowerMac, I did have a FireGL X3 running in a 1.42 GHz G4 system for awhile.

    So, what type of G4 system are you using?
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »20.12.15 - 19:08
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  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    Sergio
    Posts: 90 from 2005/2/16
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:
    Quote:

    Sergio wrote:
    To be more precise, my G4 is a MDD (Powermac3.5) and the X1950 is a X1950 GT.



    That combination should work.
    While I don't recommend higher drawing cards for the G4 PowerMac, I did have a FireGL X3 running in a 1.42 GHz G4 system for awhile.

    So, what type of G4 system are you using?


    Actually, the combination I'd like to run is the X1950 GT inside the PM G5 1.6GHz
    For the record, the G4 MDD runs MOS 3.9.
  • »20.12.15 - 19:21
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  • MorphOS Developer
    bigfoot
    Posts: 508 from 2003/4/11
    Quote:

    Sergio wrote:
    Last but not least, it seems PC AGP radeons won't work at all. I have tried both an X800 and an X1950 in both the G4 and th G5 and nothing happens. I thought MOS (3.9 on both G4 and G5) could make use of them, even if Mac boot couldn't. :(

    Anyone has a clue on this last point? Cause I want to avoid reflashing, if possible...


    The X800 won't work, while the X1950 should. As for the X1950...

    1. Try to determine if the machine is actually booting MorphOS. This is of course difficult when you don't get any display output until MorphOS has booted. Maybe try to insert a MorphOS CD and listen if it sounds like MorphOS is booting from the CD.
    2. There's the possibility that the card has a PCI device ID the driver doesn't know about. If you've got a chance to check the device ID in another machine, then please do and post the result here.
    3. Did you remember to feed the required extra power to the card? ;)


    Edit: The formatting that was OK in the preview is apparently not OK in the final post. Imagine that the above is a numbered list with 3 entries.
    I rarely log in to MorphZone which means that I often miss private messages sent on here. If you wish to contact me, please email me at [username]@asgaard.morphos-team.net, where [username] is my username here on MorphZone.
  • »20.12.15 - 19:57
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    pampers
    Posts: 1061 from 2009/2/26
    From: Tczew, Poland
    Just add to css:

    Code:
    .postText li {
    list-style: inherit;
    }


    And the lists will be back ;)
    MorphOS 3.x
  • »21.12.15 - 05:41
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  • ASiegel
    Posts: 1369 from 2003/2/15
    From: Central Europe
    Quote:

    pampers wrote:
    And the lists will be back ;)

    Thanks, but this was already fixed yesterday. You just need to refresh your browser cache.

    I had done some broad layout changes aimed at eventually making the design responsive but did not consider that lists could also be part of the actual post text, which is in fact relatively rare.
  • »21.12.15 - 06:16
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  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    Sergio
    Posts: 90 from 2005/2/16
    Quote:

    bigfoot wrote:


    1. Try to determine if the machine is actually booting MorphOS. This is of course difficult when you don't get any display output until MorphOS has booted. Maybe try to insert a MorphOS CD and listen if it sounds like MorphOS is booting from the CD.
    2. There's the possibility that the card has a PCI device ID the driver doesn't know about. If you've got a chance to check the device ID in another machine, then please do and post the result here.
    3. Did you remember to feed the required extra power to the card? ;)





    1. No, it isnt. I've put the welcome program in the WBStartup and no sound is output after the macboot chime.
    2. Tough one, I have no AGP enabled PC. I'll try to find someone who has.
    3. Yes, one Molex derived from the optical drive, the other from the second HDD
  • »21.12.15 - 12:27
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  • MorphOS Developer
    bigfoot
    Posts: 508 from 2003/4/11
    Quote:

    Sergio wrote:
    Quote:

    bigfoot wrote:
    Try to determine if the machine is actually booting MorphOS. This is of course difficult when you don't get any display output until MorphOS has booted. Maybe try to insert a MorphOS CD and listen if it sounds like MorphOS is booting from the CD.


    No, it isnt. I've put the welcome program in the WBStartup and no sound is output after the macboot chime.



    Quote:

    Sergio wrote:
    Quote:

    bigfoot wrote:
    If MorphOS doesn't find a graphics card, Ambient also won't launch and the contents of WBStartup won't be run.


    Tough one, I have no AGP enabled PC. I'll try to find someone who has.



    Well, wait with this one until you can confirm for sure that MorphOS boots.

    Another way you could do it is to put something like
    Quote:


    date >>sys:boottimes


    into s:user-startup when using a working graphics card. Swap cards, boot again, wait till it should definitely have booted, swap back to the working card and list the contents of sys:boottimes. If that file then contains the timestamp of when you tried to boot with the X1950, then MorphOS did boot.
    I rarely log in to MorphZone which means that I often miss private messages sent on here. If you wish to contact me, please email me at [username]@asgaard.morphos-team.net, where [username] is my username here on MorphZone.
  • »21.12.15 - 13:18
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  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    Sergio
    Posts: 90 from 2005/2/16
    For the record, this is my card :

    https://www.techpowerup.com/vgabios/928/sapphire-x1950gt-256-070311.html

    Does it make a difference if I try to make it work in a Powermac3,5?
  • »21.12.15 - 13:36
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  • MorphOS Developer
    bigfoot
    Posts: 508 from 2003/4/11
    Quote:

    Sergio wrote:

    Does it make a difference if I try to make it work in a Powermac3,5?


    If it's electrically compatible, then it might work. But I don't know if it is electrically compatible, and even if it is, there could be potential firmware issues as well.

    BTW, to amend my suggestion above: Besides running the date command, you could try running the pciscan command as well. Like this:

    Quote:


    pciscan >>sys:pciscan.output



    That way, you get to see if MorphOS boots (via the date command), and if it does, you'll get to see if the card is detected, and if it is, you get the device ID too.

    If it turns out to be a matter of device ID, I can send you a driver with your device ID added.
    I rarely log in to MorphZone which means that I often miss private messages sent on here. If you wish to contact me, please email me at [username]@asgaard.morphos-team.net, where [username] is my username here on MorphZone.
  • »21.12.15 - 15:12
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4977 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Powermac3,5?
    That isn't an MDD, that is a Quicksilver.

    Even so, that should still work as those models have a 4X AGP slot like the MDD.
    And I am pretty sure that your X1950Pro card is 4X/8X compatible.

    ALSO, with the G5's 8X AGP slot, that card should definitely have worked...if it is functional.
    So I wouldn't recommend swapping the X1950Pro into the G4 unless you just want to confirm a problem with the card itself.

    I assume you have a Radeon 9600, since you mentioned that card.
    While most of those won't work in a G4, there a few variants that will (like the earliest Apple models that have an additional RF shield over the inside of the DVI ports and the PC/Mac compatible series).
    But the chances of your card working in a G4?
    Not good.

    BTW - An R400 card will only work in your G4 if it is a flashed PC card (like the standard X800XT or the FireGL X3) as the ADC power connector is different on the G5 (than the G4).
    And the Apple X800XT requires an AGP Pro slot that can provide more power than a standard AGP slot (PC R400s have a secondary power connector - once describe to me by Mark as a "PITA" to use in Macs, but it can be made to work).

    But as flashed cards aren't recommended...
    The PC Radeon X1950Pro AGP card is the first PC card to have official support when installed in Macs (and our genius developers got that working without an Apple rom).
    If I had a G4 running right now, I'd double check for you, but don't doubt that Mark is completely correct when he says it should work if electrically compatible.

    Since you know your current system is functional with the 9600 card, I recommend getting another video card for the G5.

    An Apple Radeon X800XT makes as much sense as anything else as it natively supports AGP (while the R500 cards rely on a PCIe to AGP bridge chip), so it is just as fast or faster than the available R500 alternatives.
    Sell the 9600, because the chances of it working in your G4 are minimal (and the few G4 compatible 9600Pro cards available are priced higher than a stock Apple 9600Pro or 9600XT).

    [ Edited by Jim 21.12.2015 - 16:51 ]
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »21.12.15 - 20:30
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  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    Sergio
    Posts: 90 from 2005/2/16
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:
    Powermac3,5?
    That isn't an MDD, that is a Quicksilver.



    My mistake, Powermac 3.6 it is.
    And it's a x1950 GT, not Pro.
    Cheap high-end AGP cards are hard to come by, and I had a chance to grab that one.
    So if I understood correctly, the 9800 is my best bet for the G4 for now an the 9600 will be good enough for the G5 until (if) I get the X1950GT to work.
    And I can ditch the X800 as well.
  • »21.12.15 - 22:35
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  • HAK
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Posts: 221 from 2003/2/24
    From: Austria, Vienna
    Hi,

    Quote:

    Sergio wrote:
    So if I understood correctly, the 9800 is my best bet for the G4 for now an the 9600 will be good enough for the G5 until (if) I get the X1950GT to work.
    And I can ditch the X800 as well.



    At least here - having a X1950XT - it's way slower than my Radeon 9600Pro. So if no miracle with the drivers happens, you're way better off with your current setup.

    BTW: Had problems the first time too, when trying to install my X1950XT - found out, that it didn't like the TV card I had also installed in the G5. Just a hint, if you happen to have other cards also installed in the G5.


    Bye HAK
  • »22.12.15 - 22:23
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  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    Sergio
    Posts: 90 from 2005/2/16
    Quote:

    bigfoot wrote:

    BTW, to amend my suggestion above: Besides running the date command, you could try running the pciscan command as well. Like this:

    Quote:


    pciscan >>sys:pciscan.output



    That way, you get to see if MorphOS boots (via the date command), and if it does, you'll get to see if the card is detected, and if it is, you get the device ID too.

    If it turns out to be a matter of device ID, I can send you a driver with your device ID added.


    The good news is that it boots. Here is the output of pciscan:

    Quote:


    pcix.library 51.6
    ------------------------------------------------------
    BoardObject 0x2000F97C Owner <>
    Bridge <pci0> Bus 0 Dev 16 Function 0
    Vendor 0x1002 <Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI]> Device 0x7288 <RV570 [Radeon X1950 GT]>
    Revision 0x9A Class 0x3 <Display controller>
    ProgInterface 0x0 <VGA controller>
    Command 0x4
    -> Bus Mastering
    Status 0x2B0
    -> Capabilities List
    -> 66 MHz Capable
    -> Fast Back-To-Back
    DevSel: Medium Devsel Speed
    Cap_List: Head CapPtr 0x50
    Cap_List: CapPtr 0x6025801
    Cap_List: CfgIndex 0x50
    [0x1] PMC
    -> PME_Support 0x0
    -> D2_SupportFW
    -> D1_SupportFW
    -> Aux_Current 0x0
    -> Version 0x2
    PMCSR
    -> Data_Scale 0x0
    -> Data_Select 0x0
    -> PowerState 0x0
    PMCSR_BSE
    Data 0x0
    Cap_List: CapPtr 0x308002
    Cap_List: CfgIndex 0x58
    [0x2] AGP 3.0 Interface Version
    -> AGP 3.0 Core Specification Register Support
    AGP Status Reg Offset 0x5C (0xFF00021B)
    -> RQ 255
    -> ARQSZ 0 (optimum request size = 2^(ARQSZ+4)
    -> CAL_Cycle 4ms
    -> Side Band Address Support
    -> Fast Write Support
    -> AGP 3.0 Mode
    -> Rate 4X/8X
    AGP Command Reg Offset 0x60 (0x00000200)
    -> PRQ Entries 0
    -> PARQSZ Entries 0 (optimum request size = 2^(ARQSZ+4)
    -> CAL_Cycle 4ms
    -> Side Band Address Support Enabled
    -> AGP 3.0 Mode
    -> Unknown Rate 0
    Cap_List: CapPtr 0x800005
    Cap_List: CfgIndex 0x80
    [5] ?
    IOBase: Address 0xEFFFF000
    Base 0: Address 0xDFFFF000 Size 0x10000000
    ------------------------------------------------------

  • »23.12.15 - 08:00
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  • MorphOS Developer
    bigfoot
    Posts: 508 from 2003/4/11
    Quote:

    Sergio wrote:

    The good news is that it boots. Here is the output of pciscan:




    Good news indeed. I've sent you a private message with a link to a driver that should work with your card.
    I rarely log in to MorphZone which means that I often miss private messages sent on here. If you wish to contact me, please email me at [username]@asgaard.morphos-team.net, where [username] is my username here on MorphZone.
  • »23.12.15 - 12:56
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  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    Sergio
    Posts: 90 from 2005/2/16
    Quote:

    bigfoot wrote:
    I've sent you a private message with a link to a driver that should work with your card.


    Thanks, I'll try that and let you know
  • »23.12.15 - 13:49
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