OT: The other side of the fence. OS4.1FE and WinUAE?
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    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2433 from 2003/2/24
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > you need firmware from the PUP-card

    Seems Cloanto is illegally distributing the PowerUP ROM in Amiga Forever 2016:

    http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&u=http://www.amiga-news.de/de/news/comments/293877.html


    More than a little surprising, given the fact that Cloanto has spent many years working thoroughly with copyright- and IP ownership issues. They should really know better.
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  • »19.12.15 - 11:24
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Intuition
    Posts: 897 from 2013/5/24
    From: Englistan
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > you need firmware from the PUP-card

    Seems Cloanto is illegally distributing the PowerUP ROM in Amiga Forever 2016:

    http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&u=http://www.amiga-news.de/de/news/comments/293877.html


    I asked Mike Battliana and he said the csppc ROM is fully licensed. See attached screenshot.

    https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=F56294EAB6802908!577&authkey=!ANc5GQ2LJkYXEC8&v=3&ithint=photo%2cjpg

    [ Edited by Intuition 19.12.2015 - 22:15 ]
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  • »19.12.15 - 21:03
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    amigadave
    Posts: 2470 from 2006/3/21
    From: Lake Shastina,...
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > you need firmware from the PUP-card

    Seems Cloanto is illegally distributing the PowerUP ROM in Amiga Forever 2016:

    http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&u=http://www.amiga-news.de/de/news/comments/293877.html


    What does it say about our community that 95 times out of 100 people are assumed to be guilty until proven otherwise, instead of the opposite?

    It is sad that we have experienced so much failure and dishonesty that many of us now assume that most people are dishonest, or guilty of something, or that any project is vaporware, or will ultimately fail.

    Edit: This is not an accusation about any one person, and given the included message from Ralph, I would have questioned the legality of the included ROM's too. I am just stating the general impression I get from many people in our community.

    [ Edited by amigadave 19.12.2015 - 18:41 ]
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  • »20.12.15 - 01:34
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    Senex
    Posts: 491 from 2003/2/17
    From: Hannover / Ger...
    amiga-news.de is in contact with both Mike and Ralph, more to follow in a news-item probably today.
  • »20.12.15 - 05:13
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2433 from 2003/2/24
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    >> Seems Cloanto is illegally distributing the PowerUP ROM in Amiga Forever 2016:
    >> http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&u=http://www.amiga-news.de/de/news/comments/293877.html

    > I asked Mike Battliana and he said the csppc ROM is fully licensed.

    Interesting :-)


    It seems Ralph has replied and confirmed that the statement in question (post #22) was indeed posted by him:

    http://amiga-news.de/de/news/comments/293896.html
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  • »20.12.15 - 09:48
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  • Order of the Butterfly
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    KennyR
    Posts: 243 from 2003/3/4
    From: #AmigaZeux, Gu...
    Quote:

    amigadave wrote:
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > you need firmware from the PUP-card

    Seems Cloanto is illegally distributing the PowerUP ROM in Amiga Forever 2016:

    http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&u=http://www.amiga-news.de/de/news/comments/293877.html


    What does it say about our community that 95 times out of 100 people are assumed to be guilty until proven otherwise, instead of the opposite?


    It means that 95 out of 100 times people have claimed to be innocent they turned out in fact to be guilty. Most of that 95% would either be Hyperion or Amiga Inc, although there are a few DCE, Genesi and Phase5 in there.

    Quote:

    It is sad that we have experienced so much failure and dishonesty that many of us now assume that most people are dishonest, or guilty of something, or that any project is vaporware, or will ultimately fail.

    Edit: This is not an accusation about any one person, and given the included message from Ralph, I would have questioned the legality of the included ROM's too. I am just stating the general impression I get from many people in our community.


    Oh, that and Cloanto having a history of not giving a shit.
  • »20.12.15 - 17:14
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9352 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > amiga-news.de is in contact with both Mike and Ralph, more to follow in a news-item
    > probably today.

    Mike has replied, acting like Ralph's comment in that thread doesn't exist:

    "Ralph kindly gave his permission to use the Cyberstorm PPC firmware/ROM in Amiga Forever way back in 2014."
    http://www.amiga-news.de/de/news/comments/293927.html

    He's also talking about "half-truths" and I'm not sure if that's referring to Ralph's claims. Really confusing.
  • »21.12.15 - 12:33
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  • Jim
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    Jim
    Posts: 4305 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    amigadave wrote:What does it say about our community that 95 times out of 100 people are assumed to be guilty until proven otherwise, instead of the opposite?


    Unfortunately, it says more about the community than it does about those making the assumption.

    And, Ralph's permission for this software's inclusion points out another fallacy that is often spread amongst Amiga users, that MorphOS developers don't care about the community as a whole.
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  • »21.12.15 - 21:51
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    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2433 from 2003/2/24
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > amiga-news.de is in contact with both Mike and Ralph, more to follow in a news-item
    > probably today.

    Mike has replied, acting like Ralph's comment in that thread doesn't exist:

    "Ralph kindly gave his permission to use the Cyberstorm PPC firmware/ROM in Amiga Forever way back in 2014."
    http://www.amiga-news.de/de/news/comments/293927.html

    He's also talking about "half-truths" and I'm not sure if that's referring to Ralph's claims. Really confusing.


    Yeah.

    But I choose to believe the IP owner here, especially so since his view and policy regarding this has been consistent and unchanged for a very long time. Others tried before Cloanto, and they basically got the same answer as Ralph Schmidt posted on amiga-news.de; the ROM's won't be part of new commercial third party packages, they are freely available for download by individuals from Aminet, and that's it. With all this in mind, and now seeing how he simply repeat his well known stance, and on top of that explicitly proclaim that Cloanto does not have a license and that they are distributing the ROM's illigally, it leaves no room for doubt IMHO. The rightful owner of the IP say it's not OK, as he always has done in the past. This part is not confusing at all, it's 100% crystal clear.

    What is confusing is Cloanto's vague answer, as you said "pretending that Ralph Schmidt's posts aren't there". A very strange thing to do, when being asked a direct question on a serious matter like this.

    It looks a bit like KennyR wrote above - Cloanto just don't give a shit.

    Anyway, it looks like this is the latest example of using IP theft, copyright violation and piracy as a way to develop or improve or increase value or inrease marketability of OS4 and its peripheral packages.

    :-(

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  • »22.12.15 - 09:10
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9352 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > they are freely available for download by individuals from Aminet

    Are they?
  • »22.12.15 - 15:01
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Intuition
    Posts: 897 from 2013/5/24
    From: Englistan
    If Ralph sues them for infringement and gets their assets awarded to him as payment that would make him the legal owner of the Amiga operating system Workbench trademark.

    "Amiga Workbench 4.0" has a nice ring to it for the version after next of MorphOS. ;)
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  • »22.12.15 - 15:50
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    redrumloa
    Posts: 1097 from 2003/4/13
    Quote:

    takemehomegrandma wrote:

    It looks a bit like KennyR wrote above - Cloanto just don't give a shit.

    Anyway, it looks like this is the latest example of using IP theft, copyright violation and piracy as a way to develop or improve or increase value or inrease marketability of OS4 and its peripheral packages.

    :-(



    I have to admit that I am a bit shocked. We've come to expect shady, unethical or outright illegal actions by HYPErion, but I always viewed Cloanto as one of the good players. I'm very surprised at this outright piracy in order to help OS4 sales.
  • »22.12.15 - 17:52
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    Senex
    Posts: 491 from 2003/2/17
    From: Hannover / Ger...
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > they are freely available for download by individuals from Aminet

    Are they?


    This interpretation by TMHG points at the source of confusion: the freely available ROM updates. Going by the background information available to us at amiga-news.de, it seems that by a misunderstanding in 2014 Cloanto had to assume that the according licence had been granted as applied for, and thus acted in good faith!

    That the ROM was licenced thus was also included in the documentation of Amiga Forever. Now that it has become clear that there seems to have been a misunderstanding, it might be a good mid-term measure of course to create an alternative solution in WinUAE for initializing the emulated Cyberstorm turboboard (given that the actual content of the ROM isn't really needed without the physical board), but for now it is good that the continued usage is tolerated.
  • »23.12.15 - 03:50
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  • Jim
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    Jim
    Posts: 4305 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    Intuition wrote:
    If Ralph sues them for infringement and gets their assets awarded to him as payment that would make him the legal owner of the Amiga operating system Workbench trademark.

    "Amiga Workbench 4.0" has a nice ring to it for the version after next of MorphOS. ;)


    Why are you trying to bring that curse down upon us?
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    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »23.12.15 - 19:04
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
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    TheMagicM
    Posts: 1107 from 2003/6/17
    WOW... Cloanto..tsk tsk... such assholes.
  • »23.12.15 - 21:07
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  • Order of the Butterfly
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    Chain-Q
    Posts: 322 from 2003/10/12
    From: Budapest, Hungary
    Quote:

    Kronos wrote:
    I'm quite sure I saw OS4FE_RC1 on WinUAE running in better than AGA GFX.

    They are running PicassoIV emulation, which UAE can do these days. The UAEGFX driver doesn't work (yet?) from the PPC side to my knowledge.

    Edit: sorry, it seems this was answered earlier in the thread. I seem to run the forum in some weird old reversed-order-setting which confuses the hell out of me, sometimes. :) Time to change it...

    [ Edited by Chain-Q 24.12.2015 - 04:34 ]
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  • »24.12.15 - 02:31
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9352 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > With WinUAE-ppc you can have OS41FE but only 128 MB
    > (or use the other card model that have 256MB but is so slow so useless )

    "the RAM restriction with BigRAM+ and ZorRAM is being lifted in the next release due any time. This will allow the BPPC and CSPPC versions to address more than just the RAM on the CPU cards. It will also do this for the WinUAE installs as a bonus."
    http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=815116

    Screenshot:
    http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=815114
  • »12.10.16 - 14:55
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
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    redrumloa
    Posts: 1097 from 2003/4/13
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > With WinUAE-ppc you can have OS41FE but only 128 MB
    > (or use the other card model that have 256MB but is so slow so useless )

    "the RAM restriction with BigRAM+ and ZorRAM is being lifted in the next release due any time. This will allow the BPPC and CSPPC versions to address more than just the RAM on the CPU cards. It will also do this for the WinUAE installs as a bonus."
    http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=815116


    Well lookie there, a smart move by HYPE.
  • »12.10.16 - 16:00
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9352 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > the source of confusion: the freely available ROM updates. [...] it might be a good
    > mid-term measure of course to create an alternative solution in WinUAE for initializing
    > the emulated Cyberstorm turboboard (given that the actual content of the ROM isn't
    > really needed without the physical board)

    Apparently, such alternative solution isn't even needed as the ROM updates contain everything needed to create a full ROM file:

    http://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=1118089
  • »13.11.16 - 09:02
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