Any recent statements on PCIe based G5 support?
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    redrumloa
    Posts: 1225 from 2003/4/13
    Have there been any recent statements on if these models will be supported? I've seen some really nice models selling for a song lately, but holding off due to uncertainty about whether they will ever be supported.

    IIRC at last check there were no statements whether these would ever be supported, either way. That would lead me to assume no work has been done, but you know what they say about assuming... Have there been any statements I have missed?

    tia
  • »09.10.15 - 16:47
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  • Moderator
    Kronos
    Posts: 1778 from 2003/2/24
    I could tell you that I indeed had an MorphOS-booting PCIe based G5 right here for the last 3 years or so.

    Problem is that info tells you nothing bout wether the HW you have in mind will ever be supported ;)
    --------------------- May the 4th be with you ------------------
    Mother Russia dance of the Zar, don't you know how lucky you are
  • »09.10.15 - 16:51
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    redrumloa
    Posts: 1225 from 2003/4/13
    Quote:

    Kronos wrote:
    I could tell you that I indeed had an MorphOS-booting PCIe based G5 right here for the last 3 years or so.

    Problem is that info tells you nothing bout wether the HW you have in mind will ever be supported ;)


    Interesting. Could this be a case of unadvertised just working?
  • »09.10.15 - 17:03
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  • Moderator
    Kronos
    Posts: 1778 from 2003/2/24
    No, this is a case of you not fully understanding the term "PCIe based G5" ......










    2015 and I still love pulling your leg !
    --------------------- May the 4th be with you ------------------
    Mother Russia dance of the Zar, don't you know how lucky you are
  • »09.10.15 - 18:14
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    zukow
    Posts: 477 from 2005/2/9
    From: Poland
    Quote:

    redrumloa wrote:
    Have there been any recent statements on if these models will be supported? I've seen some really nice models selling for a song lately, but holding off due to uncertainty about whether they will ever be supported.

    IIRC at last check there were no statements whether these would ever be supported, either way. That would lead me to assume no work has been done, but you know what they say about assuming... Have there been any statements I have missed?

    tia


    PowerMac G5 pcie comes with Nvidia 6600Le, which isn't supported by MorphOS. That's the first problem. Radeon X1900XT for Powermac aren't easy to buy and they are quite expensive. You can always buy PC card and reflash it but mac bios for these cards isn't supported well in Morphos (original mac and reflashed ones). Since Morphos 3.8 You can use PC card with pc bios in Macs (7.3 also) and it works. But in this mode you can't access OpenFirmware, run MacosX etc. You get black screen and wait for (or forever) MorphOS boot screen so You cant boot from usb, check what is wrong, access apple boot menu.

    Minor problems come from not written yet drivers for some peripherals. I encourage from time to time, some other team members to fix issues but for today X5000 port has a high priority.

    Beside having beta port not usable yet, i got 188 fps in Q3 which is the best results in amiga world :)
  • »09.10.15 - 19:39
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Doffo
    Posts: 400 from 2010/10/14
    From: Nevada
    Quote:

    Kronos wrote:
    No, this is a case of you not fully understanding the term "PCIe based G5" ......










    2015 and I still love pulling your leg !


    Dammit stop it!! :p

    But in a more serious note, i wouldnt care being able to see openfirmware/boot mac os x/use mac os x. Throw in a PC x1950 card and be good.
    -=-=-=-
    YUUUP!
  • »09.10.15 - 20:02
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    redrumloa
    Posts: 1225 from 2003/4/13
    Quote:

    Kronos wrote:
    No, this is a case of you not fully understanding the term "PCIe based G5" ......


    Educate me.
  • »09.10.15 - 20:05
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  • Moderator
    Kronos
    Posts: 1778 from 2003/2/24
    A poinless exercise, but since I got some time at my hand.....


    Not really 3 years, more like 2 years ago:
    http://geit.de/eng_geitmeeting12072013.html
    --------------------- May the 4th be with you ------------------
    Mother Russia dance of the Zar, don't you know how lucky you are
  • »09.10.15 - 20:16
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    redrumloa
    Posts: 1225 from 2003/4/13
    Quote:

    Kronos wrote:
    A poinless exercise, but since I got some time at my hand.....


    Not really 3 years, more like 2 years ago:
    http://geit.de/eng_geitmeeting12072013.html


    You were referring to your G5 iMac, gotcha. I suppose I should have clarified G5 PowerMac, but I didn't think there were anyone interested in using a girly iMac.
  • »09.10.15 - 20:29
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  • Moderator
    Kronos
    Posts: 1778 from 2003/2/24
    Nothing girly bout the iMac.

    - perfect number of G5s to be used with MorphOS
    - quite descent LCD included
    - capable GFX chip
    - more than enough RAM

    Drop in an SSD and your set.
    --------------------- May the 4th be with you ------------------
    Mother Russia dance of the Zar, don't you know how lucky you are
  • »09.10.15 - 20:42
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9936 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > that info tells you nothing bout wether the HW you have in mind will ever be supported ;)

    It doesn't even tell anything about whether your hardware will ever be supported officially :-)
  • »09.10.15 - 20:49
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    redrumloa
    Posts: 1225 from 2003/4/13
    Quote:

    Kronos wrote:
    Nothing girly bout the iMac.

    - perfect number of G5s to be used with MorphOS
    - quite descent LCD included
    - capable GFX chip
    - more than enough RAM

    Drop in an SSD and your set.


    They are notorious for heat related failures. Back when they were still new a friend of mine had his logic board replaced under warranty and then it failed again shortly after warranty expired. It seems to be a well known issue, similar to failing capacitors on eMacs.
  • »09.10.15 - 20:51
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  • Moderator
    Kronos
    Posts: 1778 from 2003/2/24
    *shrug*

    Mine survived 10 years, good chance that it won't be affected anytime soon.
    --------------------- May the 4th be with you ------------------
    Mother Russia dance of the Zar, don't you know how lucky you are
  • »09.10.15 - 20:53
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9936 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Radeon X1900XT for Powermac

    X1900GT :-)
  • »09.10.15 - 21:10
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    redrumloa
    Posts: 1225 from 2003/4/13
    Quote:

    zukow wrote:
    PowerMac G5 pcie comes with Nvidia 6600Le, which isn't supported by MorphOS. That's the first problem. Radeon X1900XT for Powermac aren't easy to buy and they are quite expensive. You can always buy PC card and reflash it but mac bios for these cards isn't supported well in Morphos (original mac and reflashed ones). Since Morphos 3.8 You can use PC card with pc bios in Macs (7.3 also) and it works. But in this mode you can't access OpenFirmware, run MacosX etc. You get black screen and wait for (or forever) MorphOS boot screen so You cant boot from usb, check what is wrong, access apple boot menu.

    Minor problems come from not written yet drivers for some peripherals. I encourage from time to time, some other team members to fix issues but for today X5000 port has a high priority.

    Beside having beta port not usable yet, i got 188 fps in Q3 which is the best results in amiga world :)




    Thanks!
  • »09.10.15 - 22:33
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9936 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Have there been any recent statements on if these models will be supported?

    http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&u=http://www.a1k.org/forum/showpost.php?p=906855
  • »20.01.16 - 00:59
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4692 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > Have there been any recent statements on if these models will be supported?

    http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&u=http://www.a1k.org/forum/showpost.php?p=906855


    So who is the analogkid?
    BTW - That post was particularly vague.

    To be more pointed, Frank asked me not to bring it up again because I'd made a positive statement about the timeline for this myself (which was purely speculative).

    I think its going to happen, but I'm not bringing it up again.

    When its ready, they will release it.

    How do you know its not part of the next release?
    After all, both the SAM460 and the X5000 have PCIe slots, so why not support the late '05 G5s?
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »20.01.16 - 02:15
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9936 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > So who is the analogkid?

    https://morph.zone/users/1340.html

    > That post was particularly vague.

    Yes, that's because the context is missing in single-post view. My bad, sorry. Please use this link to the thread instead:

    http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&u=http://www.a1k.org/forum/showthread.php?p=906676

    > How do you know its not part of the next release?

    I don't. Analogkid seems to think it will be part of 3.10, that's what I linked to. As to how he knows you'd have to ask him.
  • »20.01.16 - 08:57
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    zukow
    Posts: 477 from 2005/2/9
    From: Poland
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > Have there been any recent statements on if these models will be supported?

    http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&u=http://www.a1k.org/forum/showpost.php?p=906855


    Sadly, nothing has changed since my last post in this thread (09.10.2015). Mac Radeons X1900 are hard to find and it would not very professional from Team point of view to ask users to seek for Radeons with PC bioses and reflash it and deal with problems after reflashing. The second problem is question how many users would register this version. Doing this version for 10 users is not the option. One can Create a poll, it would be nic to know how many users would buy it.
  • »20.01.16 - 09:46
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    pampers
    Posts: 1055 from 2009/2/26
    From: Tczew, Poland
    Quote:

    The second problem is question how many users would register this version.


    Probably much more than registered Sam460 users ;)
    MorphOS 3.x
  • »20.01.16 - 11:24
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4692 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > So who is the analogkid?

    https://morph.zone/users/1340.html

    > That post was particularly vague.

    Yes, that's because the context is missing in single-post view. My bad, sorry. Please use this link to the thread instead:

    http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&u=http://www.a1k.org/forum/showthread.php?p=906676

    > How do you know its not part of the next release?

    I don't. Analogkid seems to think it will be part of 3.10, that's what I linked to. As to how he knows you'd have to ask him.


    Thanks Andreas,
    3.10 sounds like a strong possibility.
    I stopped asking as I didn't want to bug anyone about what seemed to be the natural course for MorphOS.

    I do have a system ready, and would register it though.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »20.01.16 - 12:52
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    amigadave
    Posts: 2504 from 2006/3/21
    From: Lake Shastina,...
    Quote:

    zukow wrote:
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > Have there been any recent statements on if these models will be supported?

    http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&u=http://www.a1k.org/forum/showpost.php?p=906855


    Sadly, nothing has changed since my last post in this thread (09.10.2015). Mac Radeons X1900 are hard to find and it would not very professional from Team point of view to ask users to seek for Radeons with PC bioses and reflash it and deal with problems after reflashing. The second problem is question how many users would register this version. Doing this version for 10 users is not the option. One can Create a poll, it would be nic to know how many users would buy it.


    Since the team has been working on the port to the X5000, which also has PCIe for video card, wouldn't it just make more sense that they will also improve the support for RadeonHD PCIe video cards by completing 3D support, as well as improving the existing 2D and compositing support (is compositing support already completed for RadeonHD cards)?

    That would make more sense to me than doing any additional work on X1900 video cards which are hard to find.

    I suppose that getting new RadeonHD video cards to display the Mac Open Firmware is the problem with this solution, as I am unfamiliar with what current video cards are supported by MacOSX, and any support that currently exists would likely not help in an old G5 PCIe PowerMac. Hopefully there will be some kind of work around to give us good choices of video cards to put into the last generation of G5 PowerMacs running MorphOS, if MorphOS is indeed ever ported to such G5 systems.

    The work needed to accomplish such support for the last few G5 systems might be better spent working on the x64 version of MorphOS.
    MorphOS - The best Next Gen Amiga choice.
  • »20.01.16 - 21:54
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2514 from 2003/2/24
    Quote:

    amigadave wrote:
    Quote:

    zukow wrote:
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > Have there been any recent statements on if these models will be supported?

    http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&u=http://www.a1k.org/forum/showpost.php?p=906855


    Sadly, nothing has changed since my last post in this thread (09.10.2015). Mac Radeons X1900 are hard to find and it would not very professional from Team point of view to ask users to seek for Radeons with PC bioses and reflash it and deal with problems after reflashing.


    Since the team has been working on the port to the X5000, which also has PCIe for video card, wouldn't it just make more sense that they will also improve the support for RadeonHD PCIe video cards by completing 3D support, as well as improving the existing 2D and compositing support


    Current MorphOS version displays (indeed with no accelleration whatsoever, not even 2D, but at least it *displays*) on:

    AMD Radeon HD 2400
    AMD Radeon HD 3450
    AMD Radeon HD 4350
    AMD Radeon HD 4550
    AMD Radeon HD 4650
    AMD Radeon HD 5450
    AMD Radeon HD 6450
    AMD Radeon HD 6570
    AMD Radeon HD 7570
    AMD Radeon HD 7570

    To me, this is a statement of commitment. Especially considering their earlier policy of not even showing/allowing an un-accellerated display until the 2D/3D accellerated support was finished. IMHO they wouldn't even have included this display-only support in the public release if they weren't working on a follow-up release with proper support.

    They are supporting Sam460 and X5000, they are aware of what GFX cards that owners of these boards have/will have.

    Besides, proper support for these GFX cards (and later) will be mandatory for the x64 migration, it can't happen without it. This I think also speaks in favor of proper support being imminent.

    Regarding the question "if", I think it's a safe bet. "When" is probably the real question here. I'd say in release 3.10. I believe much speaks in favor of this. Maybe it's even this that is holding the 3.10 release back?

    ;-)


    Quote:

    The work needed to accomplish such support for the last few G5 systems might be better spent working on the x64 version of MorphOS.


    Amen!

    :-)
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »20.01.16 - 22:36
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  • MorphOS Developer
    bigfoot
    Posts: 304 from 2003/4/11
    Quote:

    zukow wrote:
    Mac Radeons X1900 are hard to find and it would not very professional from Team point of view to ask users to seek for Radeons with PC bioses and reflash it and deal with problems after reflashing.


    Reflashed Radeons are not supported and never will be supported. However, you can use a R500+ Radeons on MorphOS with the original firmware, even in a Mac, so any such thing would be completely pointless anyway.
    I rarely log in to MorphZone which means that I often miss private messages sent on here. If you wish to contact me, please email me at [username]@asgaard.morphos-team.net, where [username] is my username here on MorphZone.
  • »21.01.16 - 07:19
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9936 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > you can use a R500+ Radeons on MorphOS with the original firmware,
    > even in a Mac, so any such thing would be completely pointless anyway.

    What about display of OpenFirmware prompt and graphical boot menu?
  • »21.01.16 - 07:54
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