This reminds me of the old days when Microsoft employees would work for Amiga, Be, etc. in order to steal code and ideas for their own generic venture. Seems nothing has changed much, including the fact that the legal system will not put a stop to this because I've a feeling Piru isn't filthy rich enough.

Sorry to hear about all this.

Quote:
lol

> MorphOS should have been the next official AmigaOS, and Amiga Inc. should have
> negotiated with the MorphOS Dev. Team to make that happen

They did. Twice :-)


Edit: Yasu already answered that.

[ Edited by Andreas_Wolf 07.09.2015 - 01:42 ]

> I have OS4 Classic, OS4.1 Classic, and OS4 FE, and I choose not to use them,
> which is a great choice to let them gather dust

Isn't buying products with no intention to use them what some people do to actually *support* the producer? :-P

Quote:

While I agree that Hyperion should consider NOT accepting any further contributions from the guy responsible for this and the MUI4 stealing, I don't expect a company with only 2 employees to even have a quality control policy of checking 3rd party contributions. AmigaOS4.x and Hyperion don't reside in the "Real World", but then similar statements can be made for all parts of the Amiga community these days. Plus, since Hyperion has so few people contributing anything toward moving AmigaOS4.x forward, they are desperate to accept what ever they can get.

I wish there were a way for Piru to enforce his rights and stop this kind of "slap in the face" behavior from happening again, without it costing him time and money that he would probably not recover from the offending party. The reality of the situation is that nothing will probably be done, and sadly, some of the AmigaOS4.x users and programmers are anti-MorphOS, so they don't care. I think that most of the AmigaOS4.x users I know are respectful and don't approve of this kind of behavior, but they don't object enough to do anything about it.

[ Edited by amigadave 06.09.2015 - 16:51 ]

double post

[ Edited by amigadave 06.09.2015 - 16:49 ]

Quote:

Exactly the thought I had when I read that post.

> Microsoft employees would work for Amiga, Be, etc. in order to steal code and ideas
> for their own generic venture.

This sounds like an urban legend to me.

> a company with only 2 employees

Isn't it three (Hermans, De Groote and Mincea)?

http://blog.a-eon.biz/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/London_Amiga_Gathering.jpg

"I am de Groote!"

It starts to make sense. Hyperion are the Gardians of the Galaxy! A rodent, a tree and a whining semi adult

Quote:

I don't count the owner as an employee, but it was also just a figure of speech for a company that has very little resources and manpower.

Time to go back to lurking mode and not expect anything to be accomplished by Hyperion, and wait for what ever the MorphOS Dev. Team can come up with for the hardware I already own and use, before they make the jump to a new architecture.

Most forum posts are pointless and unproductive (not referring to yours, just speaking generally), so I really should just stay away from forums and concentrate instead on teaching myself how to program. That might be more satisfying and enjoyable for a while.

>>> a company with only 2 employees

>> Isn't it three (Hermans, De Groote and Mincea)?
>> http://blog.a-eon.biz/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/London_Amiga_Gathering.jpg

> I don't count the owner as an employee

AFAIK, at least Hermans and De Groote are co-owners/shareholders of Hyperion Entertainment CVBA. When Mincea joined Hyperion some months ago as technical director, it was not revealed whether he also bought into the company or just joined as employed director. I guess this means that Hyperion has one or less employees :-)

> I really should [...] concentrate [...] on teaching myself how to program.

Well, you are already seen as a developer by the AmiWest organizers. This increases the motivation even more, I reckon ;-)

Quote:

That is a little unclear from previous statements made by HyperionMP.

>> AFAIK, at least Hermans and De Groote are co-owners/shareholders of
>> Hyperion Entertainment CVBA.

> That is a little unclear from previous statements made by HyperionMP.

If we are to believe Hyperionmp, "Ben Hermans & family" are the sole owners of Hyperion Entertainment CVBA (and thus De Groote and Mincea its 2 non-owning employees). Thing is, a CVBA needs at least 3 shareholders (btw. that's what defunct A-Eon Technology CVBA needed Anthony Moorley for):

https://www.awdc.be/en/types-companies-belgium

This means the 3 current, publicly known directors may all be shareholders. And as Mincea joined only recently, he may either have replaced a former, unknown shareholder or there may now be at least 4 of them.
...or, Hyperionmp tells the truth and Hyperion Entertainment CVBA is owned by Ben Hermans and 2 or more members of his family. I guess we won't know for sure until someone purchases these information from the Belgian company register :-)

I think it's unbelievably shameful that this is being quietly ignored to death, especially on sites like amiga.org and amigaworld.net where you can even see posts from smegheads trying to justify these appalling actions by Hyperion and the serial-infringer himself; Thore Böckelmann.

Hyperion haven't even apologized for the incident, much less rectified it, the minor changes they did just incriminate them further. If they truly wanted to fix the situation they should either have removed the offending items completely, or truly have rewritten them. As it stands now the SDK still contains copyright-infringing items (contrary to the beliefs of certain posters who didn't even bother to check).

If there's any decency left in this community there should be put together a bounty so Piru can raise legal action against these amateur crooks.


- CISC

I have to agree this is silly.
and maybe a bounty is in order, if they keep ignoring it...


X

Quote:
I doubt throwing money at attorneys is going to solve much. Some might argue the involvement of lawyers has caused plenty of unnecessary harm as it is.

I wouldn't bother with a lawsuit. Bringing it out to the public's attention is a big enough of a black eye.

"Built OS4 tough with MorphOS stuff"

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I think MOS team is exaggerating a bit. They don't see things quite as strict with AROS stuff.

For example in the sources of some of the keymap files which are all based on AROS "skeleton", the AROS copyright was deleted and replaced with MorphOS copyright. No problem for me whatsoever and I would never complain about it.

Another example is Locale prefs program (module). Timezone gadget/select image is clearly based on AROS one, but no mention of AROS in about requester or elsewhere. No problem again.

And speaking about headers, what for example about "devices/rawkeycodes.h"? I would find it completely stupid (and a bit unlikely) *not* to create this based on some edit of the original file: add some parentheses around numbers, sort by number, reformat a bit (whitespace).

Hmm ... OTOH ... if you feel guilty, just open source all of MorphOS and you are forgiven Not even an apology needed!

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I'll make sure that any such wrongdoing will be corrected. If we borrowed some code from AROS and don't attribute it correctly it needs to be fixed. I'm sure that my fellow MorphOS developers agree with me here that this is the right thing to do.

BTW are the said files at least included here: http://morphos-team.net/files/src/3.9/keymaps.tar.bz2 ?

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Really? I think they look very different:

http://aros.sourceforge.net/pictures/screenshots/20020706/preferences.png
http://www.amigahistory.plus.com/bplan/morphos1.jpg

Technically MorphOS timezone graphics is implemented by having a single globe map png:
MorphOS/Prefs/Gfx/Timezones/earthmap.png and then smaller "selected" images for each timezone: MorphOS/Prefs/Gfx/Timezones/timezone_<n>.png The actual coordinate data for each timezone is encoded elsewhere as polygon coordinates.

AROS appears to have a two images: first the worldmap and then the timezones one where each timezone is encoded in the different color. You also explain how this thing works in the workbench/prefs/locale/pics/README documentation. MorphOS doesn't work anything like this.



[ Edited by Piru 11.09.2015 - 18:24 ]

Quote:

What's same is the visible selected area when clicking a timezone (timezones_big.png, timezones_small.ilbm). So MOS timezone_<n>.png where probably created based on AROS timezone image. The MOS images are also the exact same size as the AROS _big images). And take a look at MOS's "mask.png".

The way coordinates are mapped to timezones may very well be completely different. Or it was changed/rewritten over time. Like MOS Multiview which in old MOS versions used to be based on AROS, but not in newer versions.

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Getting lawyers involved is never a good solution, except for the lawyers and their bank accounts.

Remember, what do you call x number of lawyers at the bottom of the Ocean (wearing concrete boots, - my addition, and where "x" equals your choice of any number, but the bigger the better, 100, 1,000, or 1 million)? ............


Answer - A Good Start!

Many politicians were/or still are, lawyers, before going into politics. Politicians make new laws which are so convoluted and difficult to understand, you have to be a lawyer to make sense of them, or hire a lawyer to explain most laws to you, insuring the need for lawyers in a self perpetuating cycle of greed and corruption. If I were omnipotent, I would have all laws re-written so that even a 10 year-old child could understand them, eliminate the entire concept of corporate entities, who's sole purpose is so rich people and companies can avoid responsibility for unlawful, or irresponsible actions, and/or to avoid paying their fair share of taxes, and lastly, I would make sure that rich and/or famous people were treated exactly the same by the judicial system as poor and so-called minority people, who are the majority of who gets judged unfairly and are filling up all the American jails and prisons.

As a former government employee, I know from first hand knowledge how wide spread government corruption and the self serving nature of rules & laws are. Plus how the distribution of tax money by government agencies for needed projects is biased toward serving the few, instead of the masses, and it will probably take some kind of massive public education leading to outrage and demonstrations on a scale never seen before in U.S. history, before anything will change.

Sorry for that tangent rant, go back to your normally scheduled discussion about the original topic (that also will not be resolved to any satisfaction for the injured person(s) by actions of the offending people(s), and it won't be cost effective to take any of it to court).

@ Georg

"What's same is the visible selected area when clicking a timezone"

I try to remember that this was already done in Amiga OS 3.9 and maybe even 3.5, is that right?

Quote:

Georg, I wrote the locale.mprefs in 2001/2002. While I had seen the Aros gadget in action, I can assure you that from day one, there was not a single line borrowed. It is a completely different implementation, written in MUI (which did not even exist for Aros back then as far as I remember).

As for Mutliview, earlier version of MorphOS indeed used the Aros implementation (with proper attributions) but this changed when another author decided to write a completely new implementation from scratch.