MorphOS on AmigaOne X5000?
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9046 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > will MorphOS be released for this thing or not is all I want to know.

    So far I've not come across any indication that the responsible MorphOS team members changed their minds regarding X5000 support in MorphOS 3.10. But as always, we won't know for sure before it's actually released.

    > if 4.1FE runs classic stuff as well as I hear it does

    It does with basically the same limitations as MorphOS.
  • »27.04.17 - 09:23
    Profile
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Acill
    Posts: 1843 from 2003/10/19
    From: Oxnard, Ca.
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > will MorphOS be released for this thing or not is all I want to know.

    So far I've not come across any indication that the responsible MorphOS team members changed their minds regarding X5000 support in MorphOS 3.10. But as always, we won't know for sure before it's actually released.

    > if 4.1FE runs classic stuff as well as I hear it does

    It does with basically the same limitations as MorphOS.


    Thanks for info, more or less what I have been expecting.
    Powerbook 1.67GHZ (Currently Main MorphOS Machine)
    Powermac Dual 2.0 GHZ G5 (Registration #1894)
    A4000T CSPPC, Mediator
    Need Amiga recap or other services in the USA? Visit my website at http://www.acill.com
  • »27.04.17 - 10:18
    Profile Visit Website
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9046 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > amigaonthelake.com has plenty of stock in-house at the moment

    "We have made a decision, concerning both A-EON and AmigaKit. The decision we made is grounded in our experience during the last 8 months in regards to both companies. As a result we have made the choice to no longer support A-EON or AmigaKit in any way, shape or form. We are still here and "may" be carrying more stuff soon. However no more X5000 or A1222 or, frankly anything produced from either company."
    http://amigaonthelake.com
  • »29.05.17 - 01:34
    Profile
  • vox
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    vox
    Posts: 361 from 2003/11/25
    From: Belgrade
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > amigaonthelake.com has plenty of stock in-house at the moment

    "We have made a decision, concerning both A-EON and AmigaKit. The decision we made is grounded in our experience during the last 8 months in regards to both companies. As a result we have made the choice to no longer support A-EON or AmigaKit in any way, shape or form. We are still here and "may" be carrying more stuff soon. However no more X5000 or A1222 or, frankly anything produced from either company."
    http://amigaonthelake.com


    Sad day, but hope AAH entity will learn not to de-prioritize resellers or whatever happened
    as part of "8 month voyage".

    I dont see what they could do currently, but offer Vampires once
    they get a bit more mass produced.

    Failed chance is x5000+MorphOS on sale in US. Amiga On The Lake
    had quite nice ways of presenting it and aiding both end users and developers.
    Small retailers tend to have "more love".

    Once MOS for x5000 is done, Amedia could offer it
    https://www.amedia-computer.com/en/
    France was always nice MOS market
    ------------------------------------------
    x1000 user, ASAP Vampire Standalone user, future MOS user
  • »29.05.17 - 10:01
    Profile
  • vox
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    vox
    Posts: 361 from 2003/11/25
    From: Belgrade
    Quote:

    Acill wrote:
    So will MorphOS be released for this thing or not is all I want to know. I am seriously considering one if it is, just to clear up some office space and be able to try OS4 on the same machine I run MorpgOS on. My G5 is nice, but it has no OS4 support.

    I may even clear out some of my classic hardware if 4.1FE runs classic stuff as well as I hear it does.


    Dont buy it for OS4 experience or at least wait until things mature. x5000 is faster quite a lot then x1000 minus Altivec (+20% clock rate,
    better MIPs per Mhz) but there is virtualy nothing under OS4 that can make it sweat :-) (as I cant on x1000).

    Plus OS is in serious beta, judge it for yourself
    http://forum.hyperion-entertainment.biz/viewforum.php?f=57

    I might go even from x1000 to x5000 some point of distant future when things get sorted up
    (and 040 model lives, if it lives with some SMP as more added speed + DDR3 RAM),
    just for added MorphOS experience and escaping CFE curse. But if MOS PPC gets PA Semi/Nemo
    support one day, that wouldnt be needed for x1000 owners.

    Also Linux that could make decent desktop use of any G5,x1000,x5000
    is not officially supported on x5000 and is some tricky mambo jumbo to install and update
    and 3D on Southern Island cards is problematic
    http://forum.hyperion-entertainment.biz/viewforum.php?f=58

    So you get better Linux and stable MOS experience on high end G4/G5
    and save some nerves until mythical OS 4.2, Libre and lets say Tower 57 arrive.

    Only new worthy OS4 app is EMOTION, really good video player that simply
    works great.

    MorphOS port of Emotion would be great. Since its EncliclerX who owns it,
    maybe its possible to preorder enough for them to have sustainable port,
    if of any interest (I am not aware of MOS video player situation)

    Flagship browser Odyssey and YAM are both avail for MOS, Odyssey even
    in a bit updated version to OS4. Feature and software wise there are
    subtle differences (better RadeonHD support on OS4, WarpOS support on MOS ...)
    but they arent that big in favour of OS4 only. And MOS you can currently drive on
    cheap hardware.

    Classic stuff on OS 4.1FE update 1 (4.1.8). Wouldnt bet on that one either. In my experience
    Photogenics and very few apps work out of box, few with heavy tweaks
    and many not at all, or crash easily. MOS will do better there,
    Vampire is a champ. WarpOS software works on OS4 SAM440 and maybe old A1
    but not on x1000/x5000. Hype knows of bug, too laisy to fix or as that say "unimportant"
    MorphOS works there if you need WOS apps and games.

    Also, Enhancer makes OS looks nice and has new improved AmiDock X
    and few updated tools. It is kind of what Hyperion was supposed to do.

    Warp3D Nova is nice, but just few demos and one game currently (I am not fan of Minecraft).

    [ Edited by vox 29.05.2017 - 14:34 ]
    ------------------------------------------
    x1000 user, ASAP Vampire Standalone user, future MOS user
  • »29.05.17 - 10:08
    Profile
  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4024 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > amigaonthelake.com has plenty of stock in-house at the moment

    "We have made a decision, concerning both A-EON and AmigaKit. The decision we made is grounded in our experience during the last 8 months in regards to both companies. As a result we have made the choice to no longer support A-EON or AmigaKit in any way, shape or form. We are still here and "may" be carrying more stuff soon. However no more X5000 or A1222 or, frankly anything produced from either company."
    http://amigaonthelake.com


    Yes...hmm, saw that.
    Kind screws up North America, and Matt's customer service to my country was kind of lacking anyway.
    After all...returns? That is a bit of a distance.

    It does factor into my desire to own one, that and the nasty vitriol coming from the fanatical fan base in Europe.
    But at this point, IF they produce the P5040 version, I'll probably still source one to run MorphOS.

    And nasty responses from OS4 users? I'm used to it.
    I'm not even sure I care for Matt Leaman that much, but Trevor did finally get the thing built, so...

    I did pull some of the funds I had saved and I had Aaron at AOTL send me an OWC SSD though.
    He's a good man and I'd highly recommend him.
    So this situation is doubly confounding.

    [ Edited by Jim 29.05.2017 - 09:00 ]
    "Fiery the angels rose, and as they rose deep thunder roll'd / Around their shores: indignant burning with the fires of Orc."

    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »29.05.17 - 11:00
    Profile
  • vox
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    vox
    Posts: 361 from 2003/11/25
    From: Belgrade
    Well, its sad to see any Amiga dealer in such a situation (that is my judgement).
    AmigaKit is a worldwide dealer, but then again, there are reasons why we love
    our local/regional dealers.

    Hope situation will resolve once they get to produce more Cyruses.

    As I describe above, I judge its OS4/Linux situation as similar to my x1000/Southern Island card,
    and that is ... worth of waith for software to develop first.

    Same goes for MorphOS port, I have no doubts it will support more out of box
    (proper SATA and Ethernet driver and they would beat Steven Sollie) but we dont
    have a definite MOS release too.

    At the other hand, Amiga hardware availiability was always limited so I cant decide for you.
    I hope Cyrus can get to a better production and more stable machine.
    I like it seems some of "x1000 lessons" have been learned (easier to update BIOS, UBoot not CFE,
    some nice boot menus, availiable and faster CPU).

    [ Edited by vox 29.05.2017 - 13:24 ]
    ------------------------------------------
    x1000 user, ASAP Vampire Standalone user, future MOS user
  • »29.05.17 - 12:24
    Profile
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9046 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > +20% clock rate

    No, see comment #647.

    > Since its EncliclerX who owns it, maybe its possible to preorder enough
    > for them to have sustainable port, if of any interest

    EntwicklerX so far have always declined any requests for ports to Amiga-like OS other than OS4.

    > I am not aware of MOS video player situation

    Fab's MPlayer port is fine, albeit almost 2 years old.

    > Odyssey even in a bit updated version to OS4.

    No.

    > WarpOS software works on OS4 SAM440 and maybe old A1

    Yes, on PowerUP, Eyetech AmigaOne, Pegasos II and Sam440 (or more general: G2/G3/G4 and PPC440).
  • »29.05.17 - 13:12
    Profile
  • vox
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    vox
    Posts: 361 from 2003/11/25
    From: Belgrade
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > +20% clock rate

    No, see comment #647.


    OK, 11%, but in theory its up to +50% MIPS, while some is compensated by Altivec.

    x5040 is expected to more the double it (2 x cores, + 20% cloock per each core to 020)

    and if ever released, kind of might justify its high price :-)

    The x1000 uses the PA6T 1.8Ghz dual core, rated about 8000 MIPS (2.2 DMIPS * 1800 Mhz * 2 cores)
    The x5020 uses the P5020 2.0Ghz dual core, rated about 12000 MIPS (3.0 DMIPS * 2000 Mhz * 2 cores )
    The x5040 uses the P5040 2.4Ghz quad core, would rate about 28000 MIPS (3.0 DMIPS * 2400 Mhz * 4 cores )
    ------------------------------------------
    x1000 user, ASAP Vampire Standalone user, future MOS user
  • »29.05.17 - 13:31
    Profile
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9046 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > proper SATA [...] driver

    What's wrong with the X5000 SATA driver?

    > it seems some of "x1000 lessons" have been learned ([...] UBoot not CFE, [...] faster CPU).

    The decisions for the particular boot loaders had nothing to do with "lessons learned". P.A. Semi used CFE for their Electra/Chitra boards, and Freescale used U-Boot for their P5020DS board. So they made the choice and A-Eon/Varisys simply followed it to minimize cost.
    Also, the P5020 simply wasn't available before 2012 (the year of the X1000 release), so A-Eon/Varisys couldn't use it as base for the X1000 in 2009 (when the QorIQ P5 series wasn't even announced).
  • »29.05.17 - 16:18
    Profile
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9046 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > x5040 is expected to more the double it (2 x cores, + 20% cloock per each core
    > to 020) [...] The x5040 uses the P5040 2.4Ghz quad core, would rate about
    > 28000 MIPS (3.0 DMIPS * 2400 Mhz * 4 cores )

    Despite being announced, Freescale/NXP has never sold the P5040 at 2.4 GHz. Maximum has been 2.2 GHz, so I guess that's what the X5000/40 will use.
  • »29.05.17 - 17:53
    Profile
  • vox
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    vox
    Posts: 361 from 2003/11/25
    From: Belgrade
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > proper SATA [...] driver

    What's wrong with the X5000 SATA driver?
    DVD dissapear, buggy.
    http://forum.hyperion-entertainment.biz/viewtopic.php?f=57&t=3617

    > it seems some of "x1000 lessons" have been learned ([...] UBoot not CFE, [...] faster CPU).

    The decisions for the particular boot loaders had nothing to do with "lessons learned". P.A. Semi used CFE for their Electra/Chitra boards, and Freescale used U-Boot for their P5020DS board. So they made the choice and A-Eon/Varisys simply followed it to minimize cost.
    Also, the P5020 simply wasn't available before 2012 (the year of the X1000 release), so A-Eon/Varisys couldn't use it as base for the X1000 in 2009 (when the QorIQ P5 series wasn't even announced).



    Well, minimal costs arent wisest choice. CFE cant actually boot a thing, has most horrible
    line editing ever seen etc. etc. Not to mention does not properly initialize VGA every time,
    unlike Uboot that has some x86 BIOS limitation. Its made for initializing Broadcomm
    routers or similar and PA Semi code is just slapped to it. It offers some interesting
    options, but extreme user unfriendly.

    If they could source PA Semi, they could some decent G4 or G5 too.
    This way it looks like:

    a) ACK promise develivered late with high price
    b) Experimental machine to get things going, so we can produce x5000
    c) Slowest CPU in use compared its clock rate. Sad thing is its slowise
    for modern Linux and overkill for OS4 currently

    And now lets all enjoy new cheaper and CFE free x5000 :-)

    To make x5000 attractive Trevor decided to support MorphOS port.
    In x1000 days tune was "its oK if someone else do it"

    Its understandable x1000 couldnt be produced more due to strangest CPU in the world.
    Its only sad how fast its a bit abandoned, forgotten and kind of burried.
    ------------------------------------------
    x1000 user, ASAP Vampire Standalone user, future MOS user
  • »30.05.17 - 04:10
    Profile
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9046 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    >> What's wrong with the X5000 SATA driver?

    > DVD dissapear, buggy.
    > http://forum.hyperion-entertainment.biz/viewtopic.php?f=57&t=3617

    Thanks. I wasn't aware of these limitations.

    >> P.A. Semi [...] and Freescale [...] made the choice and A-Eon/Varisys simply followed
    >> it to minimize cost.

    > minimal costs arent wisest choice.

    Commissioning an U-Boot port to the Nemo board would have made the X1000 even more expensive.

    > Uboot [...] has some x86 BIOS limitation.

    Which limitation is that?

    > CFE [...] [is] made for initializing Broadcomm routers or similar

    Yes, CFE is used in Broadcom-based routers from Apple, Asus, Buffalo, Linksys and Netgear, as well as in Broadcom-based Smart TVs and Blu-ray players from LG and Samsung.

    > If they could source PA Semi, they could some decent G4 or G5 too.

    http://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=11&topic_id=11137&start=222

    > To make x5000 attractive Trevor decided to support MorphOS port.
    > In x1000 days tune was "its oK if someone else do it"

    I doubt Trevor's support for the MorphOS port to the X5000 has been bigger than what he would have done to support a MorphOS port to the X1000. It was the MorphOS team who declined to port to the X1000, for several reasons, including Ben Hermans' involvement in the original A-Eon company.
  • »30.05.17 - 12:30
    Profile
  • vox
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    vox
    Posts: 361 from 2003/11/25
    From: Belgrade
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:

    SATA driver is "complicated" (Steven Sollie), so he asks for patience.
    Then you buy new x5000 to discover OS driver is in alpha state,
    and Linux DVD wasnt supplied. Huh, Amiga ways. And MorphOS is not yet out >:-)

    >> P.A. Semi [...] and Freescale [...] made the choice and A-Eon/Varisys simply followed
    >> it to minimize cost.

    > minimal costs arent wisest choice.

    Commissioning an U-Boot port to the Nemo board would have made the X1000 even more expensive.

    But would be far more reasonable and usable solution.
    And I could bear few euros more :-)

    > Uboot [...] has some x86 BIOS limitation.

    Which limitation is that?

    Emulation for VGa cards BIOS that bypassed initalization and reset problems.

    > CFE [...] [is] made for initializing Broadcomm routers or similar

    Yes, CFE is used in Broadcom-based routers from Apple, Asus, Buffalo, Linksys and Netgear, as well as in Broadcom-based Smart TVs and Blu-ray players from LG and Samsung.

    So its never ment for booting and VGA initialization, and they
    sell me desktop without such important info >:-)

    > If they could source PA Semi, they could some decent G4 or G5 too.

    I doubt Trevor's support for the MorphOS port to the X5000 has been bigger than what he would have done to support a MorphOS port to the X1000. It was the MorphOS team who declined to port to the X1000, for several reasons, including Ben Hermans' involvement in the original A-Eon company.

    Ok, since x5000/020 isnt improvement big enough to justify sell/buy operations,
    one day they might have mercy on surviving Nemos >:-)
    ------------------------------------------
    x1000 user, ASAP Vampire Standalone user, future MOS user
  • »31.05.17 - 06:00
    Profile
  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4024 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    vox wrote:...Emulation for VGa cards BIOS that bypassed initalization and reset problems...


    I believe the latest OS4 driver use the same Atom bios functionality that Bigfoot has been using to get X86 cards working in Macs.
    So outside of uboot functionality, x86 emulation is of limited use.
    "Fiery the angels rose, and as they rose deep thunder roll'd / Around their shores: indignant burning with the fires of Orc."

    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »31.05.17 - 16:18
    Profile
  • vox
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    vox
    Posts: 361 from 2003/11/25
    From: Belgrade
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:
    Quote:

    vox wrote:...Emulation for VGa cards BIOS that bypassed initalization and reset problems...


    I believe the latest OS4 driver use the same Atom bios functionality that Bigfoot has been using to get X86 cards working in Macs.
    So outside of uboot functionality, x86 emulation is of limited use.


    I am speaking of other, rather nasty thing, CFE related and gfx card related.
    Not the RadeonHD driver.

    CFE simply does not initialize VGA video signal on boot or on reset.

    You simply get a video outpout sometimes, and sometimes you dont.
    Its more often on soft resets, but nothing really helps.

    And its "normal", on AmigaKit tested and sold cards.

    http://forum.hyperion-entertainment.biz/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=2053
    http://forum.hyperion-entertainment.biz/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=2518
    http://forum.hyperion-entertainment.biz/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=2164

    I can say its CFE/x1000 related, since card works normally when put to a x64
    ------------------------------------------
    x1000 user, ASAP Vampire Standalone user, future MOS user
  • »03.06.17 - 23:16
    Profile
  • vox
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    vox
    Posts: 361 from 2003/11/25
    From: Belgrade
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    The decisions for the particular boot loaders had nothing to do with "lessons learned". P.A. Semi used CFE for their Electra/Chitra boards, and Freescale used U-Boot for their P5020DS board. So they made the choice and A-Eon/Varisys simply followed it to minimize cost.
    Also, the P5020 simply wasn't available before 2012 (the year of the X1000 release), so A-Eon/Varisys couldn't use it as base for the X1000 in 2009 (when the QorIQ P5 series wasn't even announced).


    I understand it was EASIEST choice and with so many CFE bugs I experience, I am willing to say
    UNFINISHED even after few revisions ...

    I understand UBoot port would add cost to already expensive machine,
    but is far better choice then having expensive machine with worse BIOS ever,
    that is not even really ment to boot (read boot sectors) but you generally
    have to point to everything and editing is quite a horror as well as switches
    for everything, CFE cannot autodetect even a file system.
    ------------------------------------------
    x1000 user, ASAP Vampire Standalone user, future MOS user
  • »03.06.17 - 23:22
    Profile
  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    Posts: 96 from 2015/8/23
    Many things changes after vox sell his Amiga X1000.
    Warp3D for Radeon SI cards was made.
    Also OpenGL with shaders.
    There is not much software for WarpOs.
    For WarpOs You can use ReWarp. Heretic II works.
    Vampire will be nice but is too slow, has not MMU and FPU.
    Amiga OS 4 at least support classic software made for FPU.
    Many classic soiftware works, after some tweaks.
  • »09.07.17 - 14:47
    Profile
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9046 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Many things changes after vox sell his Amiga X1000.
    > Warp3D for Radeon SI cards was made.

    I think he still has his X1000 and has a Radeon SI installed in it.
  • »09.07.17 - 15:04
    Profile
  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4024 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > Hope situation will resolve [...].

    http://amigaonthelake.com/blog/aeon-amiga-on-the-lake/


    Ah, they decide to play nice. ;-)

    Now, since the post doesn't mention AmigaKit, does anyone know if this reconciliation includes matt, or does it bypass AmigaKit?
    And if it does, does that mean Aaron still isn't carrying other AmigaKit listed products?
    "Fiery the angels rose, and as they rose deep thunder roll'd / Around their shores: indignant burning with the fires of Orc."

    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »09.07.17 - 16:31
    Profile
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9046 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > does anyone know if this reconciliation includes matt

    I guess it does. After all, he is A-Eon's sole managing director as well as A-Eon's main shareholder ;-)
  • »09.07.17 - 18:51
    Profile
  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4024 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > does anyone know if this reconciliation includes matt

    I guess it does. After all, he is A-Eon's sole managing director as well as A-Eon's main shareholder ;-)


    But there is nothing listed on AOTL's site that appears to have to come through AmigaKit (although we can probably assume that is how the X5000 hardware is purchased).
    I congratulated Aaron on the resolution, but specifically avoided this question.

    Really, its none of my business, I shouldn't even be posting it here, I am just really curious to know about the resolution.

    Then again, since the break was too public, the current status is more than enough info.
    "Fiery the angels rose, and as they rose deep thunder roll'd / Around their shores: indignant burning with the fires of Orc."

    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »09.07.17 - 20:49
    Profile