SMP under Amiga OS
  • fmh
  • Cocoon
    Cocoon
    fmh
    Posts: 55 from 2012/8/23
    Interesting read : http://blog.hyperion-entertainment.biz/?p=1184
    PowerMac G4-500DP, 1GB RAM, ATI 9000, Sound Blaster Live
  • »02.03.15 - 16:29
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  • Moderator
    Kronos
    Posts: 1643 from 2003/2/24
    Slightly more interesting and far more believable: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Potter
    --------------------- May the 4th be with you ------------------
    Mother Russia dance of the Zar, don't you know how lucky you are
  • »02.03.15 - 16:41
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9112 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Interesting read : http://blog.hyperion-entertainment.biz/?p=1184

    https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=16&topic_id=10057&start=72
  • »02.03.15 - 16:57
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Yasu
    Posts: 1723 from 2012/3/22
    From: Stockholm, Sweden
    One question remain:

    Is the Friedens/Hyperion

    A, lying (they are not really making SMP but just trying to keep interest up)
    B, not knowing what they are doing
    C, working on something that will not be a good solution or
    D, know something we dont?
    AMIGA FORUM - Hela Sveriges Amigatidning!
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    My MorphOS blog
  • »02.03.15 - 23:42
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    In_Correct
    Posts: 236 from 2012/10/14
    From: DFW, TX, USA
    Do not get discouraged, MorphOS Developers. I think Hyperion could be incompetent. Morph features are probably developed secretly and much higher quality.
    :-) I Support Quark Microkernel. :-D
  • »03.03.15 - 00:02
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    bash64
    Posts: 898 from 2010/10/29
    From: USA
    uh, is there such a thing as a multicore X1000?
    Do they even have the hardware for this?
    Powerbook G4 1.67ghz 2GB, ATI 9700M Pro 128mb
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  • »03.03.15 - 04:43
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  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    WB_Coder
    Posts: 66 from 2014/5/1
    Quote:

    bash64 wrote:
    uh, is there such a thing as a multicore X1000?
    Do they even have the hardware for this?



    You surprise me not knowing that the PA6T used in the X1000 has 2 cores. So, yes, the X1000 is a dual core computer that they can test their code on. I have serious doubts that what ever kind of hacked SMP/AMP they come up with will be any good.
    WB_Coder = Wanna Be Coder
  • »03.03.15 - 06:48
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    bash64
    Posts: 898 from 2010/10/29
    From: USA
    I never even took the time to look at the X1000.
    Once again, too little, too late, and WAY too expensive.
    My last Amiga was a 2500 with an 040 and cybergraphics video card in a Bomac Tower case.
    Powerbook G4 1.67ghz 2GB, ATI 9700M Pro 128mb
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  • »03.03.15 - 11:19
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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    KimmoK
    Posts: 102 from 2003/5/19
    Any new info about Arix and it's implementation of multicore support?

    http://www.arixfoundation.com/
    https://www.facebook.com/pages/Arix-OS/414578091930728
    :-x :-P 8-)
  • »12.03.15 - 12:52
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  • o1i
  • Caterpillar
    Caterpillar
    Posts: 39 from 2003/2/25
    Quote:

    KimmoK wrote:
    Any new info about Arix and it's implementation of multicore support?

    http://www.arixfoundation.com/
    https://www.facebook.com/pages/Arix-OS/414578091930728



    Don't know anything about Arix, but AROS SMP is laid on ice as it seems. There is no technical reason, why it would not work, there is just this "lack of manpower resources" thing, that still needs to be debugged and fixed.
  • »13.03.15 - 08:41
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    amigadave
    Posts: 2403 from 2006/3/21
    From: Lake Shastina,...
    Since there has been so much work to get WinUAE working fantastically, and even EUAE work very well, breaking backward compatibility with the Amiga API and depending on emulation for legacy support in the new x64 version of MorphOS is a viable solution for most current and former Amiga users. Having true SMP, as well as memory protection, IMO, are a must for the new x64 version of MorphOS, or what is the point of breaking compatibility with the old API? It will be interesting if the small group of MorphOS Developers can come up with a new OS that has enough legacy flavor and new ideas, to make it worth using, instead of the more popular and better supported Linux distros, or the entrenched Windows and MacOSX options.

    Another option for legacy support in a modern x64 computer might be to re-visit the idea of installing an "Amiga-on-a-card", with something like the Vampire stand alone FPGA system, on a PCI card, but I suppose that has its Pros and Cons as well, and emulation using EUAE might be the best answer. The Apollo core is getting more and more interesting every month, and the latest addition of some/most MMX, or SSE, or what ever it is called, instructions that have been added to the core, make it even more interesting as a legacy option.
    MorphOS - The best Next Gen Amiga choice.
  • »01.03.17 - 17:17
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9112 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > the latest addition of some/most MMX [...] instructions that have been
    > added to the core, make it even more interesting as a legacy option.

    These instructions are for new/updated software and cannot be used by legacy software.
  • »02.03.17 - 00:12
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4064 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    bash64 wrote:
    uh, is there such a thing as a multicore X1000?
    Do they even have the hardware for this?



    Yes, the X1000 has a dual core cpu, and all A-eon AmigaOnes (until Tabor) have had 64 bit cpus.
    Yet another reason Tabor is such a POS.

    Hopefully, when we go multicore, it will be part of the ISA shift to X64.
    As has been pointed out, whatever gets developed under X64...could be backported.

    But Hyperion's plan to produced a multiprocessing AmigaOS variant without backward compatibility problems? Ridiculous.


    [ Edited by Jim 02.03.2017 - 11:50 ]
    "Magnetic was troubled by my avatars and 'satanic' references" - Jim Igou

    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »02.03.17 - 17:44
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4064 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    bash64 wrote:
    I never even took the time to look at the X1000.
    Once again, too little, too late, and WAY too expensive.
    My last Amiga was a 2500 with an 040 and cybergraphics video card in a Bomac Tower case.



    If you were to compare the price of that 2500...
    "Magnetic was troubled by my avatars and 'satanic' references" - Jim Igou

    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »02.03.17 - 17:45
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9112 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Hyperion's plan to produced a multiprocessing AmigaOS variant without
    > backward compatibility problems? Ridiculous.

    If AROS can do it, why not Hyperion? AROS is open source, after all ;-)
  • »02.03.17 - 22:43
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    amigadave
    Posts: 2403 from 2006/3/21
    From: Lake Shastina,...
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:
    Quote:

    bash64 wrote:
    I never even took the time to look at the X1000.
    Once again, too little, too late, and WAY too expensive.
    My last Amiga was a 2500 with an 040 and cybergraphics video card in a Bomac Tower case.



    If you were to compare the price of that 2500...


    Good point!

    My main Amiga for many years was an accelerated A2000, and I know I spent at least $3,500 on hardware for that system, probably over $4,000. Then if you adjust the value of those dollars from 1990, when I spent that money to purchase and accelerate that A2000, it would probably be close to equal with $5,500 2017 dollars.

    The reason money is a valid argument against purchasing an X5000, is because Windows and Linux users choosing x64 hardware today, can spend as little as $500 to $1,200 to get a computer system that is 2 to 4 times faster than the A-Eon X1000 & X5000 systems. If they want to spend $3,000, they can probably get performance that is 10 times faster, or more. But of course, those x64 systems can't run MorphOS, or AmigaOS4 (except slowly through emulation).

    At the time I purchased my X1000, I did not think it was a bad investment, compared to what I had already spent on my Amiga addiction, but now as the years drag onward, and there is still no hint that AmigaOS4.2 will ever be finished, my conviction regarding the purchase has tarnished a bit.
    MorphOS - The best Next Gen Amiga choice.
  • »03.03.17 - 02:14
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  • Moderator
    Kronos
    Posts: 1643 from 2003/2/24
    @amigadave

    500 to 1200$ for a PC 2-4 times the speed of an X5000? I think your lagging behind a few years, such performance can be found dumpster diving these days.....
    --------------------- May the 4th be with you ------------------
    Mother Russia dance of the Zar, don't you know how lucky you are
  • »03.03.17 - 04:20
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9112 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > I know I spent at least $3,500 on hardware for that system, probably over $4,000.
    > Then if you adjust the value of those dollars from 1990 [...] it would probably
    > be close to equal with $5,500 2017 dollars.

    5500 USD today were inflation-adjusted 2960 USD in 1990. 3500 USD in 1990 had the buying power of today's 6500 USD.
  • »03.03.17 - 07:44
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Intuition
    Posts: 878 from 2013/5/24
    From: Englistan
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > Hyperion's plan to produced a multiprocessing AmigaOS variant without
    > backward compatibility problems? Ridiculous.

    If AROS can do it, why not Hyperion? AROS is open source, after all ;-)


    I would not be surprised to read an announcement soon that OS4 has SMP that works in exactly the same way as AROS does it. ;)

    [ Edited by Intuition 03.03.2017 - 09:14 ]
    1.67GHz 15" PowerBook G4, 1GB RAM, 128MB Radeon 9700M Pro, 64GB SSD, MorphOS 3.9

    2.7GHz DP G5, 4GB RAM, 512MB Radeon X1950 Pro, OSX 10.5.8, 500GB SSHD, MorphOS 3.9
  • »03.03.17 - 10:14
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4064 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > Hyperion's plan to produced a multiprocessing AmigaOS variant without
    > backward compatibility problems? Ridiculous.

    If AROS can do it, why not Hyperion? AROS is open source, after all ;-)


    When did AROS become 3.1 compatible?
    I must have missed that.
    It can run AmigaOS binaries without UAE?
    "Magnetic was troubled by my avatars and 'satanic' references" - Jim Igou

    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »03.03.17 - 18:39
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    amigadave
    Posts: 2403 from 2006/3/21
    From: Lake Shastina,...
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > I know I spent at least $3,500 on hardware for that system, probably over $4,000.
    > Then if you adjust the value of those dollars from 1990 [...] it would probably
    > be close to equal with $5,500 2017 dollars.

    5500 USD today were inflation-adjusted 2960 USD in 1990. 3500 USD in 1990 had the buying power of today's 6500 USD.


    My estimate was a guess, and I was trying to be conservative, so I am not surprised to see that I was $1,000 low. I don't even know where to look to find out inflation adjusted values, but could probably google it and find where the calculation can be made.

    Once MorphOS moves to x64, hopefully the MorphOS Devs. will choose readily available hardware that is priced competitively with all other x64 hardware, and we will finally have (nearly) up to date hardware power, at up to date hardware pricing. The problem any small group of developers has writing an OS for any hardware is time. It takes time, sometimes a lot of time, to write hardware drivers, so by the time the OS is finished and released, the hardware is no longer "up to date", and depending on just how long the writing of the drivers and the rest of the OS takes, it could be possible that the hardware they are aiming for becomes no longer available, except through a few dealers who have a handful of NOS units, and the used market.

    Even Linux, with its thousands of programmers, and considerable commercial support, has a difficult time supporting all the newest hardware. The MorphOS users will most likely just have to accept that they will always be limited to using just a few systems, which are probably 1 to 2 years old, at the least, and be patient with the Devs., when waiting for newer hardware to be supported.

    Creating a new x64 OS, with modern features, but also very MorphOS like, and unique enough to make it worth all the effort, is a huge undertaking. I believe in the MorphOS Dev. Team though, and would be willing to bet some hard cash that the first x64 version of MorphOS is released prior to AmigaOS4.2 being completed and released, as first described by Hyperion many years ago. I no longer believe that Hyperion has the ability to complete AmigaOS4.2 as it was first described, ever!
    MorphOS - The best Next Gen Amiga choice.
  • »03.03.17 - 18:40
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9112 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    >>> Hyperion's plan to produced a multiprocessing AmigaOS variant without
    >>> backward compatibility problems? Ridiculous.

    >> If AROS can do it, why not Hyperion? AROS is open source, after all ;-)

    > When did AROS become 3.1 compatible?

    AROS is source-compatible with AmigaOS 3.1. As far as I know, existing AROS programs won't have to be recompiled to run on the boot core in SMP-enabled AROS. Why shouldn't the same be possible with OS4 (or MorphOS, for that matter)?

    > It can run AmigaOS binaries without UAE?

    No, but I fail to see the relevance for what I wrote.
  • »03.03.17 - 20:17
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4064 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    >>> Hyperion's plan to produced a multiprocessing AmigaOS variant without
    >>> backward compatibility problems? Ridiculous.

    >> If AROS can do it, why not Hyperion? AROS is open source, after all ;-)

    > When did AROS become 3.1 compatible?

    AROS is source-compatible with AmigaOS 3.1. As far as I know, existing AROS programs won't have to be recompiled to run on the boot core in SMP-enabled AROS. Why shouldn't the same be possible with OS4 (or MorphOS, for that matter)?

    > It can run AmigaOS binaries without UAE?

    No, but I fail to see the relevance for what I wrote.


    "As far as I know..."

    I guess we will see how that goes, I'll believe it when I see it done.
    "Magnetic was troubled by my avatars and 'satanic' references" - Jim Igou

    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »03.03.17 - 20:50
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