PPC Laptop, something for MorphOS?
  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    WB_Coder
    Posts: 66 from 2014/5/1
    If A-Eon is not involved and supporting this PPC laptop, then I have no clue on what they are thinking. Unless they cannot extend themselves any further, until the X5000 is finished and up for sale. A e6500 core PPC laptop makes so much more sense for them to develop and sell than another $3,000 PPC desktop, and I am sure that AmigaOS4.x users are desperate to have any kind of laptop to run their OS of choice on. Look at how many of them were excited about the mythical PPC laptop that Hyperion was supposedly going to produce and sell that only had performance similar to a SAM440, or Efika 5200b.

    But then it has already been proven that many AmigaOS4.x users will buy just about anything to run AmigaOS4.x on, no matter the performance or the price.
    WB_Coder = Wanna Be Coder
  • »02.06.15 - 11:13
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  • vox
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    vox
    Posts: 344 from 2003/11/25
    From: Belgrade
    Quote:

    WB_Coder wrote:
    If A-Eon is not involved and supporting this PPC laptop, then I have no clue on what they are thinking. Unless they cannot extend themselves any further, until the X5000 is finished and up for sale. A e6500 core PPC laptop makes so much more sense for them to develop and sell than another $3,000 PPC desktop, and I am sure that AmigaOS4.x users are desperate to have any kind of laptop to run their OS of choice on. Look at how many of them were excited about the mythical PPC laptop that Hyperion was supposedly going to produce and sell that only had performance similar to a SAM440, or Efika 5200b.

    But then it has already been proven that many AmigaOS4.x users will buy just about anything to run AmigaOS4.x on, no matter the performance or the price.


    AEON is not involved, depending on graphic choice, laptop might even compete to X5000.

    Surely, OS4 crowd needs a laptop badly, but MorphOS crowd could benefit the newer laptop too.
    ------------------------------------------
    Future MOS user pon SAM460ex
    https://www.youtube.com/user/rasvoja
  • »03.06.15 - 15:04
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  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    WB_Coder
    Posts: 66 from 2014/5/1
    Quote:

    vox wrote:
    AEON is not involved, depending on graphic choice, laptop might even compete to X5000.

    Surely, OS4 crowd needs a laptop badly, but MorphOS crowd could benefit the newer laptop too.




    How would you know if A-Eon is involved or backing that laptop project?

    After all your threats against Hyperion and A-Eon and AmigaKit when you purchased your X1000, I am sure that none of them are speaking to you regarding what they are, or aren't doing or supporting.
    WB_Coder = Wanna Be Coder
  • »04.06.15 - 06:59
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Yasu
    Posts: 1723 from 2012/3/22
    From: Stockholm, Sweden
    I think whats speaks against A-Eon being involved is that they claimed their new partner have lowered the price. Considering A-Eon and the PPC laptop uses different CPU:s I doubt that they have chipped in together for a batch to lower the price.

    It sounds rather like Freescale giving them a discount. I bet they do this as a good will thing in order to get some buzz.
    AMIGA FORUM - Hela Sveriges Amigatidning!
    AMIGA FORUM - Sweden's Amiga Magazine!

    My MorphOS blog
  • »04.06.15 - 11:56
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  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    WB_Coder
    Posts: 66 from 2014/5/1
    Quote:

    Yasu wrote:
    I think whats speaks against A-Eon being involved is that they claimed their new partner have lowered the price. Considering A-Eon and the PPC laptop uses different CPU:s I doubt that they have chipped in together for a batch to lower the price.

    It sounds rather like Freescale giving them a discount. I bet they do this as a good will thing in order to get some buzz.


    If it was Freescale, there would be no reason not to announce it, specially if you say they do it for good will reasons.

    A-Eon would have good reasons to keep their involvement secret until the X5000 is finished and ready for public sales. Then they could announce that their next project is to port AmigaOS4.x to this new PPC Open Source laptop project.

    I am confused why A-Eon didn't just choose to use a standard PPC development board for about half the cost of creating a new PPC motherboard. I think there were 1 or 2 available, that should have suited their needs (but of course they would not have the Xena chip, or Xorro interface).
    WB_Coder = Wanna Be Coder
  • »05.06.15 - 04:00
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 3856 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    PPC development boards have features producton boards do not need and often their layout is not ideal.
    "Fiery the angels rose, and as they rose deep thunder roll'd / Around their shores: indignant burning with the fires of Orc."

    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »05.06.15 - 14:19
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  • vox
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    vox
    Posts: 344 from 2003/11/25
    From: Belgrade
    Quote:

    WB_Coder wrote:
    Quote:

    vox wrote:
    AEON is not involved, depending on graphic choice, laptop might even compete to X5000.

    Surely, OS4 crowd needs a laptop badly, but MorphOS crowd could benefit the newer laptop too.




    How would you know if A-Eon is involved or backing that laptop project?

    After all your threats against Hyperion and A-Eon and AmigaKit when you purchased your X1000, I am sure that none of them are speaking to you regarding what they are, or aren't doing or supporting.




    In general, they are not really giving any plans to anyone.
    Laptop project has no ties to AEON / AmigaKit / Hyperion, its created as Linux project. No OS4 support is mentioned anyplace, and even at laptop forum its highly unlikely until AEON/Hyperion decide to do so (and since it can be competative product to SAM460 / X5000 ...)

    And yes, I am still unsatisfied with way AmigaKit handle customer demands as well as the way X1000 is not supported by OS4.
    ------------------------------------------
    Future MOS user pon SAM460ex
    https://www.youtube.com/user/rasvoja
  • »05.06.15 - 21:42
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 8908 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    Update:

    > Not there yet: [...]
    > http://www.powerpc-notebook.org/2015/05/powerpc-notebook-new-specifications-and-development-status/

    Still a long way to go:

    "After some unsuccessful contacts between the notebook manufacturer and a potential financing partner, it seems that the best option to fund the project is to start a crowdfunding campaign. [...] the estimated date to produce the notebook will be the end of 2016. Before that, at least 5 prototypes will be delivered to the community for software adaptation and beta testing. [...] the CPU will be based on the e6500 core that provides ALTIVEC technology and PowerIsa 2.07. The GPU will be most probably AMD/ATI based, making use of a mxm connector. Currently some of our developers are working with a Freescale T2080RDB development board donated by Freescale. The board is very useful in order to test u-boot, PCIe video card output and try to boot Debian."
    http://www.powerpc-notebook.org/2015/10/towards-crowdfunding-campaign/
  • »05.11.15 - 17:08
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 8908 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    https://twitter.com/ronaldgadget/status/673809617684668416
    http://www.research.ibm.com/labs/zurich/microserver/
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DOME_Microserver
    http://amigaworld.net/userinfo.php?uid=14284
    http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=39203&forum=33

    Not sure whether the discussion mention in the tweet is related to the project discussed in this thread, though.
  • »09.12.15 - 00:27
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    amigadave
    Posts: 2316 from 2006/3/21
    From: Lake Shastina,...
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    Update:

    > Not there yet: [...]
    > http://www.powerpc-notebook.org/2015/05/powerpc-notebook-new-specifications-and-development-status/

    Still a long way to go:

    "After some unsuccessful contacts between the notebook manufacturer and a potential financing partner, it seems that the best option to fund the project is to start a crowdfunding campaign. [...] the estimated date to produce the notebook will be the end of 2016. Before that, at least 5 prototypes will be delivered to the community for software adaptation and beta testing. [...] the CPU will be based on the e6500 core that provides ALTIVEC technology and PowerIsa 2.07. The GPU will be most probably AMD/ATI based, making use of a mxm connector. Currently some of our developers are working with a Freescale T2080RDB development board donated by Freescale. The board is very useful in order to test u-boot, PCIe video card output and try to boot Debian."
    http://www.powerpc-notebook.org/2015/10/towards-crowdfunding-campaign/


    Jim and others that are discussing a community designed and funded alternative to the Tabor system from A-Eon/ACube, should instead work with the people trying to make this PPC laptop, or if that is not possible, do their own T2080 based laptop for MorphOS, and possibly AmigaOS4.x if Hyperion would support it (and I am sure they would want to have a PPC laptop to run AmigaOS4.1FE on).

    I know it would be a lot more work, and more expensive to produce, but perhaps they can design a T2080 motherboard which initially is used for a small form factor desktop system, then adapt it for laptop use afterwards with additional work, which would double or triple the number of motherboard sales.
    MorphOS - The best Next Gen Amiga choice.
  • »09.12.15 - 08:23
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 3856 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    The only problem I have with that is the added cost and complexity.
    The original proposal was to compete with an e500v2 based board with a T10XX based board.
    Then the T2081 got dragged into it because it has some pin compatibility.
    And after that, the T2080 was mentioned because it is superior to the T2081.

    With a laptop, we have to design a shell, the board has to have a GPU, other parts like batteries and memory have to be sourced.

    At each step of this discussion, costs go up, until at this level they require a huge investment.
    With a simple upgrade to my current version of Orcad, I could have started something like what we were originally talking about.
    Bill might be able to go further (the T2080 board possibly? who knows?).

    But where the heck do we get the resources for a laptop?

    At the beginning, I just wanted to discuss building about 50 T1042 based mini itx motherboards.
    The T2080/T2081 proposals appeal to me, but they add significant cost.

    This...sounds a little too 'Natami' to me.
    "Fiery the angels rose, and as they rose deep thunder roll'd / Around their shores: indignant burning with the fires of Orc."

    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »10.12.15 - 14:53
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 8908 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    >>> "[...]The GPU will be [...] making use of a mxm connector.[...]"

    >> [...]

    > With a laptop, [...] the board has to have a GPU

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_PCI_Express_Module
  • »10.12.15 - 15:25
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Intuition
    Posts: 826 from 2013/5/24
    From: Englistan
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    >>> "[...]The GPU will be [...] making use of a mxm connector.[...]"

    >> [...]

    > With a laptop, [...] the board has to have a GPU

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_PCI_Express_Module


    "Only corporate clients are granted access to the standard."

    Might be a problem for a community designed laptop mobo.
    1.67GHz 15" PowerBook G4, 1GB RAM, 128MB Radeon 9700M Pro, 64GB SSD, MorphOS 3.9

    2.7GHz DP G5, 4GB RAM, 512MB Radeon X1950 Pro, OSX 10.5.8, 500GB SSHD, MorphOS 3.9
  • »10.12.15 - 15:59
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 3856 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    Intuition wrote:
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    >>> "[...]The GPU will be [...] making use of a mxm connector.[...]"

    >> [...]

    > With a laptop, [...] the board has to have a GPU

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_PCI_Express_Module


    "Only corporate clients are granted access to the standard."

    Might be a problem for a community designed laptop mobo.


    There are plethora of standards for this. The format isn't as important as the fact that it has to be designed in and paid for.
    "Fiery the angels rose, and as they rose deep thunder roll'd / Around their shores: indignant burning with the fires of Orc."

    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »10.12.15 - 17:34
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    amigadave
    Posts: 2316 from 2006/3/21
    From: Lake Shastina,...
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:
    The only problem I have with that is the added cost and complexity.
    The original proposal was to compete with an e500v2 based board with a T10XX based board.
    Then the T2081 got dragged into it because it has some pin compatibility.
    And after that, the T2080 was mentioned because it is superior to the T2081.

    With a laptop, we have to design a shell, the board has to have a GPU, other parts like batteries and memory have to be sourced.

    At each step of this discussion, costs go up, until at this level they require a huge investment.
    With a simple upgrade to my current version of Orcad, I could have started something like what we were originally talking about.
    Bill might be able to go further (the T2080 board possibly? who knows?).

    But where the heck do we get the resources for a laptop?

    At the beginning, I just wanted to discuss building about 50 T1042 based mini itx motherboards.
    The T2080/T2081 proposals appeal to me, but they add significant cost.

    This...sounds a little too 'Natami' to me.


    Hence my suggestion that you work with the already established group working toward a PPC laptop. It would spread around the work load, as well as the financial risk, if more people are involved. Unfortunately, it also makes everything more complex and difficult to coordinate, but I think the results would be worth the extra effort.

    If your motherboard was kept small enough, and designed with the possibility of also being used for a future laptop with the proper expansion ports and capabilities, it would serve for both projects, and possibly increase sales far beyond what is otherwise possible with only MorphOS users as the target market.

    It would be worth the effort of at least talking with the people working on the PPC laptop project, would it not?

    Of course, it is all probably just speculation and wishful thinking, and nothing real will come of these discussions anyway, but if there is real work done toward making it a reality, why not aim for something more people will want (a portable laptop), if there is already a group trying to make such a project, which you can join?
    MorphOS - The best Next Gen Amiga choice.
  • »11.12.15 - 00:13
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 8908 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    Update:

    > Still a long way to go: [...]
    > http://www.powerpc-notebook.org/2015/10/towards-crowdfunding-campaign/

    "Regarding the initial funding, we recalculated the amount to raise, placing it at 55000 €. The increase is due to the expenses that we expect to certify the product. The objective is still to collect this sum before September 2016. So the crowdfunding will cover the design( that we will publish with an Open Hardware license ), the production of five prototypes and the certification process."
    http://www.powerpc-notebook.org/2016/04/which-software-do-you-want-for-the-gnulinux-powerpc-notebook/
  • »12.04.16 - 10:28
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