> Can I suggest a bootimage with a headless option for Sam460ex and X5000
> with the VNC Server as the default display ?

MorphOS supports the onboard SM502 graphics of the Sam460ex fine. Or is there a problem with MorphOS using the SM502 as soon as an unsupported PCIe graphics card is installed (similarly to the X5000)? It would make sense for the Sam460cr in any case.

On the Sam460ex you can select which video card is initialized first via U-Boot.
Not sure what happens if there is also a non supported PCie graphics card installed as well with MorpOS.
(AMIGAOS 4.1FE does boot to Workbench in this case. Linux would also give a text console on the SM502 as well when I list tried).
I can't remember every getting the onboard video to work with MorphOS but this was a couple of years ago.
May give it a try again . Now have a single slot Polaris Rx550 installed so easier to swap
cards for testing.
My problems then were with the onboard Ethernet also booting from the SDcard image for some reason .
I no longer have a DVD drive attached to the Sam460ex.
The SDcard image worked perfectly with my X5000 at that time though .


Quote:

Answering Myself .

This is with the Polaris card installed but the SM502 as the first card initialized .

usbscsi.device@0: Mount <SDH0>
usbscsi.device@0: Partition <SDH0> DosType 0x444f5307 BootPri 5
!!! OpenScreen(): Could not find any valid modeids. No graphics card? !!!
!!! OpenScreen(): Could not find any valid modeids. No graphics card? !!!


[ Edited by Spectre660 27.05.2020 - 11:22 ]

> This is with the Polaris card installed but the SM502 as the first card initialized .
> [...]
> !!! OpenScreen(): Could not find any valid modeids. No graphics card? !!!

Oh, this is bad and unexpected. Thanks for trying. I really wonder why MorphOS acts this way. Very unfortunate.

Can confirm that MorphOS boots using the onboard SM502 video card once the Rx550 is removed.
However my original problem with the onboard ethernet still exists.

If I recall correctly from 2 years ago the X5000 would boot with an unsupported graphics card but no display if the VNC server was installed.could not always connect via VNC though .


Quote:

There's a Virtual driver supplied which can be used if no physical card is found - for VNC.

I am aware of that.

When I was experimenting with it on an X5000 i could not reliably get a VNC connection on booting for some reason. That is why I was suggesting a properly onfigured bootimage with everything preconfigured to work at boot. No longer have the X5000 .

With my unusual Sam460ex Ethernet issue it would not work with the Sam460ex.

Quote:

I bought the x5000 board primarily for OS4, then stumbled upon MOS after reading about some past red vs blue war. Very sad for both sides. Like little children on both sides. I wanted to triple boot OS4, MOS, Linux but I now see PPC BE is largely dead from mainstream developer support. Linux 3D drivers have some long standing bug, Javascript engines with broken BE behavior, Hyperion nowhere to be found but maybe in court. Thank god for Trevor and A-Eon bringing new hardware to market and seeming to pick up software/kernel development too. It is what it is and I knew there were limitations going in. Expensive board yes-but I like it. I really do think there is an advantage in supporting new hardware-not stuck in decade old hardware. Thanks for porting MOS to the board. I will probably buy 1 of the suggested cards for MOS. OTOH I came to "niche" systems precisely as they are not x86 and with that being said I have little interest in MOS-x64.

My next project is an ARM64 workstation build. Dan A4 case, SolidRun LX2160 board, NVMe, DDR4, PCIE, undecided on which AMD GPU.

Thanks for all the suggestions

Heck once MOS-x64 is out, surely the devs write architecture agnostic code and will support modern GPU's & features they might think to themselves about those forum posters asking about GPU drivers and just maybe change arch from x64 to PPCBE and "port" their new drivers to the "old" system? Haha

Quote:

Quote:
Yes, I agree. Such red vs blue wars are stupid. Unfortunately they are very common since Amiga birth I can say it is our hobby

With graphics cards is allways problem if you want have two or three OSes on one machine. You have to select priority an buy card according to it - I have:
Pegasos2 with Radeon 9800PRO (+MOS, -AOS, +lnx)
Powermac G5 Quad with Radeon X1900-G5-ed (+MOS, no lnx), Radeon HD6570 (-MOS, +lnx)
AmigaOne X1000 with Radeon HD7970 (+AOS, -lnx), Radeon HD6670 (-AOS, +lnx)
fortunatelly my 'bigger' machines are two gfx card capable, with X5000 is harder situation. Personally - I will select here Radeon HD6970 (Cayman XT) - it have 2D with MOS+AOS, 3D with linux. But I don't play fps games.

I also agree that Trevor made good job. Yes, it is old-designed, underpowered and expensive. But it is. I bought A1X1000 an I will buy also Tabor if ever will be. And I know that here is price/power nearly nonsense, but for me it makes sense.

For future will be great x64 - here I mean PPC(be)x64 + SMP to utilize todays NG Amigas and old Powermac G5.
Next makes me sense go to PPC(le) - like Talos or Blackbird, or ARM - why not?
It is hobby, or "niche" or freedom or simply it is different.

But migration to x86-64 for me means show stopper. Yes, we will have cheap powerful hardware. But what advantage MorphOS have over Win, linux or unix? Do I need gaming or modern features ? I have win or Ubuntu, maybe SteamOS. Do I need stability ? I have Fedora or Open Suse or BSDs. Do I need fast OS? I don't take MorphOS - I will buy Threadripper, DDR4, NVMe...

Sorry, Radeon HD6970 not among MorphOS supported - then Radeon HD6850 seems be better.

> Such red vs blue wars [...] are very common since Amiga birth ;-)

I'd say they started much later, namely with Commodore's death that was followed by weak leadership, or none at all, and in consequence the remaining 3rd parties weren't able or willing to agree to common standards, so that often at least two incompatible standards existed concurrently. I don't remember such intra-Amiga "wars" being prevalent during the Commodore era.

> Powermac G5 Quad with Radeon X1900-G5-ed ([...] no lnx)

I'm surprised that Linux doesn't support this. That's not what I had expected.

> For future will be great x64 - here I mean PPC(be)x64 + SMP to utilize
> todays NG Amigas and old Powermac G5.

What's "PPC(be)x64"? Some hybrid-ISA CPU yet to be developed? :-) PA6T, P5020 and PPC970 are PPC64(-BE), no x64 inside. Btw, Tabor/A1222's P1022 is just 32-bit.

> Next makes me sense go to PPC(le) - like Talos or Blackbird

The nice thing about POWER9 is that it can still run in BE mode for legacy compatibility (AIX, IBM i).

> migration to x86-64 for me means show stopper. [...] what advantage
> MorphOS have over Win, linux or unix?

Linux/Unix also run on non-x64 (ARM, Power etc.).

> Do I need stability ?

Stability is always nice, but indeed hard to achieve without memory protection as soon as you don't just want to run OS components.

> Do I need fast OS? I don't take MorphOS

MorphOS is a lightning-fast OS, mainly thanks to its lack of memory protection :-)

> Sorry, Radeon HD6970 not among MorphOS supported

True, the GPUs of HD69xx are TeraScale 3 microarchitecture (see comment #16).

> then Radeon HD6850 seems be better.

...or HD6870 :-)

Quote:

Indeed. I have learned only recently from Dave Needle (RIP) interviews how much of an asshole Jack Tramiel was. Like Hermans, but actually competent, and in a much wider market where you could get away with such things.

I'd like to say that it shouldn't affect your hobby, but clearly it has.

Anyway off topic. Please continue.

>> Powermac G5 Quad with Radeon X1900-G5-ed ([...] no lnx)
>I'm surprised that Linux doesn't support this. That's not what I had expected.

Doesn't. At least not out-of-the box. It runs framebuffer with modesetting disabled, but enabling causes 'invalid ROM contents' - it has something to do with Atom bios, which is not present on G5 edition. Standart X1900 cards are reported as working with powerpc linux.

>> For future will be great x64 - here I mean PPC(be)x64 + SMP to utilize
>> todays NG Amigas and old Powermac G5.
>What's "PPC(be)x64"? Some hybrid-ISA CPU yet to be developed? PA6T, P5020 and PPC970 are >PPC64(-BE), no x64 inside. Btw, Tabor/A1222's P1022 is just 32-bit.

It means PPC64 big endian, with fully-64bit/SMP MorphOS on it. For G5, PA6T, P5020/040, T2080 and whatever obscure.

>> Next makes me sense go to PPC(le) - like Talos or Blackbird
>The nice thing about POWER9 is that it can still run in BE mode for legacy compatibility.

yes. And POWER8 also.

>> migration to x86-64 for me means show stopper. [...] what advantage
>> MorphOS have over Win, linux or unix?
>Linux/Unix also run on non-x64 (ARM, Power etc.).

of course, but ARM in general not yet so powerful like x86-64, so there is a gap for MorphOS.
And both ARM and Power are used by enthusiast - also gap for MorphOS.
But in x86-64 world? I don't know - I am not developer or project leader - it is not my decision. But me personally don't have any reason to use MorphOS on standard PC.

Quote:

I wouldn't say since birth. While Commodore was still around it was all about advocacy. Anyone who lives through that era knows that extreme advocacy was not limited to Amiga or Commodore products. C64 owners knew their computer was the best since it was the best selling. Apple II owners knew their computer was best because it was "not a toy". IBM PC computers knew theirs to be the best because IBM was Big Blue. Atari ST knew theirs to be the best because of the due to the MIDI built in. It goes on and on.

Commodore bankrupted and the interwebs was born. That advocacy transferred online. Communities formed in various ways, attempts by companies to revive the "Amiga" were being made. Some real, some bad jokes, and some outright scams. People starting making up their mind what was "teh reals" and what wasn't. Mini camps started forming. People would argue what was a "real Amiga" or not. Some of it in hindsight was pretty silly or stupid, but usually completely harmless.

The problem came a little later. MorphOS started early and had negotiations with McBill's Amiga Inc to become OS4. Those fell through and MorphOS forged on independently. MorphOS was largely seen as a curiosity in these days as there were other similar (though simpler) projects like pOS. It wasn't until McBill contracted Hyperion (a small time game company) to port OS3.1 to PPC and call it OS4 did the ugliness begin.

Pretty soon this game company's laywer started making statements like "MorphOS is based on stolen code", it was "illegal" and he was going to sue the developers. Suddenly there was no simple harmless advocacy, people took red or blue sides on if MorphOS was an illegal pirate product. The red side were the aggressors, the blue side were defending themselves.

That's how it started. It simply got worse with actual lawsuits between companies (not MorphOS though). A certain Belgium lawyer poisoned the well. OS4 is essentially dead with only 3rd parties providing updates, so the war is essentially dead. However, the history helped create the differing paths. People who want to stay niche with "the name" largely stay on the red side. People who want to distance themselves from the name and forge a new path on industry standard hardware, largely go blue.

[ Edited by redrumloa 28.05.2020 - 14:20 ]

> I have learned only recently from Dave Needle (RIP) interviews
> how much of an asshole Jack Tramiel was.

At least this interview (excerpt?) seems to contain more (anecdotal) information about Sam and Leonard than about Jack himself.

> Atom bios [...] is not present on G5 edition.

Yes, I know. I'd have thought the Linux developers had catered to this difference. Pity they didn't.

> fully-64bit/SMP MorphOS on [...] PA6T, [...] T2080

I doubt we'll ever see MorphOS (NG or current gen) on Nemo/X1000. MorphOS on the T2080-based notebook would be nice (if it ever comes).

>>> Next makes me sense go to PPC(le) - like Talos or Blackbird

>> The nice thing about POWER9 is that it can still run in BE mode for legacy compatibility.

> yes. And POWER8 also.

Problem with POWER8 is the lack of a nice and relatively small and affordable desktop/workstation like the Blackbird is for POWER9.

>>> migration to x86-64 for me means show stopper. [...] what advantage
>>> MorphOS have over Win, linux or unix?

>> Linux/Unix also run on non-x64 (ARM, Power etc.).

> ARM in general not yet so powerful like x86-64, so there is a gap for MorphOS.
> And both ARM and Power are used by enthusiast - also gap for MorphOS.

What I meant was that if MorphOS makes no sense on x64 because it runs also Linux, then why should MorphOS make sense on ARM or Power where Linux runs as well?

> Commodore bankrupted and the interwebs was born.

...or rather widespread. The WWW precedes Commodore's bankruptcy.

> MorphOS started early and had negotiations with McBill's Amiga Inc
> to become OS4. [...] MorphOS was largely seen as a curiosity in these
> days as there were other similar (though simpler) projects like pOS.

Development of pOS was abandoned before MorphOS development even started silently and years before first MorphOS beta release. Maybe I'm misinterpreting your implied timeline, but pOS and MorphOS certainly weren't contemporaries.

> this game company's laywer started making statements like
> "MorphOS is based on stolen code", it was "illegal"

Remarkably, this lawyer was also one of the company's managing partners. And let's not forget who really started making those statements and kept on repeating them for at least a decade.

> It simply got worse with actual lawsuits between companies

Interestingly, the only somewhat "blue vs. red" lawsuit (Thendic/Genesi vs. Amiga Inc.) wasn't really about anything red (AmigaOS) or blue (MorphOS), even though the plaintiffs unsuccessfully tried to drag OS4 into this.

> People who want to distance themselves from the name and forge
> a new path on industry standard hardware, largely go blue.

I can only speak for myself, but when I switched from AmigaOS 3.x to MorphOS 1.x, it wasn't to distance myself from the name. It was because I cared less for the name than for the technology and who offered it first. Had negotiations between MorphOS team and Amiga Inc. been successfull, I'd have remained an AmigaOS user :-)

Quote:

Again - important is what makes sense to Morphos-team guys. Not for me. But if you ask:
Have a big sense to have MorphOS for example on my BananaPro or many other small "slow" SBCs. Yes, I have linux here, but.. Lazy, ugly compares to MOS on Pegasos2.
And on Power? Power is Morphos "native" CPU. Talos/Blackbird are powerful modern computers. A1X5k / A1X1k are "new", but not modern. Not mention to Sam460Ex. Nevertheless it was very good job from A-Eon and A-Cube.
When Morphos was borned, there was Pegasos - relatively modern and capable (i.e. not so far behind) these days compares to PC world. What computer can buy new users like gz3fwd?
Btw, I have no problem to install MorphOS even to one lpar on s922 - the day is long an boring sometimes

Sorry for offtopic.

If this can be addressed on both Sam460ex and X5000 then options are opened up.
For the X5000 a PCI Radeon 9xxx card as a simple solution .

Quote:

Quote:

Yup, I mean widespread. Sure the internet has been around far longer, but the form we know of today really started forming in the 94-95 timeframe IMO.


Quote:

Just reading too much into it. I wasn't suggesting they were direct contemporaries, only that people reading about the first reports of MorphOS wouldn't have been shocked. They'd have other examples to compare it to they had heard of that never really materialized. I'm sure you will correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think pOS was ever officially announced as dead?

[ Edited by redrumloa 01.06.2020 - 08:42 ]

> people reading about the first reports of MorphOS wouldn't have
> been shocked. They'd have other examples to compare it to they
> had heard of that never really materialized.

The main differences between the pOS pre-release and the first public MorphOS beta release were, from my perspective:
One needed to run on top of AmigaOS while the other didn't (just required Workbench for lack of own graphical program launcher). One couldn't run AmigaOS software while the other could. One was all m68k while the other ran natively on my PowerPC.
To me, these made all the difference between a dead-end curiosity and the beginnings of a viable path to the future.

> I don't think pOS was ever officially announced as dead?

Correct, as with the vast majority of abandoned projects. On the other hand, I've just found a German forum post from 2007 that reports proDAD's information (in reply to an inquiry to allow putting the OS on Aminet) that pOS was a commercially very successful product at that time (2007!). Maybe as an embedded OS? (Edit: Further posts confirm this and speak of industrial use.) We don't know as the planned interview didn't happen, AFAIK.

Btw, fun fact: pOS can run hosted on MorphOS according to this German forum post from MorphOS 1.4.5 era.

[ Edited by Andreas_Wolf 03.11.2022 - 13:21 ]

Update:

>> Please blame Aeon first for not allowing to have two PCIe cards in X5000 :)

> Dual-booting works on the X5000 with a PCIe x16 GCN-based Radeon card
> in the PEG slot for OS4 and a PCIe x1 R500/R600-based FirePro/FireMV
> card in the PCIe x1 slot for Linux. The question is why MorphOS cannot
> work in this setup when Linux can.

Seems the cause was finally found and fixed within MorphOS:

https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=13303&forum=3&start=4


Fix released:

"X5000 hardware support was improved to handle two Radeon cards"
https://morph.zone/modules/news/article_storyid_2574.html

"Tweaked the PCI address mapping on the X5000 to accommodate a Radeon on the PCIE1 bus"
https://morphos-team.net/releasenotes/3.17

[ Edited by Andreas_Wolf 02.05.2022 - 09:50 ]

I am the OP.
I just stumbled upon the great news that the MorphOS bug preventing a 2nd PCI-E GPU being used has been fixed in 3.17.
Thank you to the developers for fixing this. Now I can have the best of both worlds.
I will be looking for a 1950 XT for MOS to complement the 580 for AOS41.
The 1950 will fit in the Define 7's vertical GPU slot, and with riser should not block other AIC slots on the 5000 motherboard.

I will say my perception from this experience is some of the MOS team comes across as hyper sensitive cry babies. Instead of getting angry at users asking questions and blaming others but not looking in the mirror until now is really sad. Luckily this MOS bug has been fixed and I am personally grateful to the developer(s) who fixed this. Was the bug more complicated than hardcoded expectation of the display adapter being in the x16 slot? Without sources I will never know, but regardless now all x5000 owners in my shoes can now use MorphOS. Well done to whomever fixed it.