MorphOS 3.12
  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4855 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    Kronos wrote:
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:

    What we'd really need is Sonnet PPC support.




    Do I really need to quote myself from 25 hours ago ;)


    No, just include the post and the thread.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »29.05.19 - 20:20
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  • Moderator
    Kronos
    Posts: 1879 from 2003/2/24
    Or you could just scroll down (or up, depending on your prefs) a bit.........



    On the list of the most pointless targets for a MorphOS port (that will never happen anyways) a Mediator+Sonnet comes in below:

    X1000
    SAM440
    Yikes (B/W PowerMacG3 and early PowerMacG4)
    G3 PowerBook
    G3 iBook
    Beige G3 PowerMac
    603/604 Macs (those that the Sonnet was supposed to go in)
    BeBox
    Mac-Clones
    TeronOne


    Edith:
    The Sonnet is supposed to go into 601 based Macs, feel free to list those below the Mediator+Sonnet combo


    [ Edited by Kronos 29.05.2019 - 21:38 ]
    --------------------- May the 4th be with you ------------------
    Mother Russia dance of the Zar, don't you know how lucky you are
  • »29.05.19 - 20:32
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10459 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > What we'd really need is Sonnet PPC support. I missed a chance
    > to buy an 800 MHz board last year.

    Sonnet PCI cards (i.e. Crescendo 7200) max out at 500 MHz. Faster cards supported by SonnetLibrary are not Sonnet cards but various PMC cards to be installed on a PCI carrier board.
  • »29.05.19 - 22:19
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4855 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > What we'd really need is Sonnet PPC support. I missed a chance
    > to buy an 800 MHz board last year.

    Sonnet PCI cards (i.e. Crescendo 7200) max out at 500 MHz. Faster cards supported by SonnetLibrary are not Sonnet cards but various PMC cards to be installed on a PCI carrier board.


    The card I was offered via eBay was listed as a Sonnet card pulled from a Mac clone.
    Other Sonnet PPC cards were also available.

    If the listing was incorrect, at least it made me aware of the availability of 800 MHz card. I you now state that there were 1 GHz cards.

    Actually, the few G4 level cpus still available range around 1.3 GHz (unless you include the 7448).
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »30.05.19 - 02:19
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10459 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    >> Sonnet PCI cards (i.e. Crescendo 7200) max out at 500 MHz.
    >> Faster cards supported by SonnetLibrary are not Sonnet cards
    >> but various PMC cards to be installed on a PCI carrier board.

    > The card I was offered via eBay was listed as a Sonnet card pulled from a Mac clone.

    Only PCI cards (or non-PCI cards on a PCI carrier) are of use in a PCI-enabled classic Amiga. Faster than 500 MHz Sonnet cards are not PCI but for proprietary Apple connectors.

    > If the listing was incorrect, at least it made me aware of the availability of 800 MHz card.

    If the listing claimed it was a PCI card, then it definitely was incorrect. Overall, non-PCI Sonnet cards go up to 1.8 GHz.

    > I you now state that there were 1 GHz cards.

    As I wrote, these are not Sonnet PCI cards but various (non-Sonnet) PMC cards to be installed on a PCI carrier board. The support library is called SonnetLibrary simply because it all started with Sonnet PCI cards. Most cards currently supported by SonnetLibrary are non-Sonnet cards, though.

    > the few G4 level cpus still available range around 1.3 GHz (unless you include the 7448).

    None of these Sonnet cards are PCI so irrelevant for PCI-enabled classic Amiga.
  • »30.05.19 - 14:28
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4855 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    >> Sonnet PCI cards (i.e. Crescendo 7200) max out at 500 MHz.
    >> Faster cards supported by SonnetLibrary are not Sonnet cards
    >> but various PMC cards to be installed on a PCI carrier board.

    > The card I was offered via eBay was listed as a Sonnet card pulled from a Mac clone.

    Only PCI cards (or non-PCI cards on a PCI carrier) are of use in a PCI-enabled classic Amiga. Faster than 500 MHz Sonnet cards are not PCI but for proprietary Apple connectors.

    > If the listing was incorrect, at least it made me aware of the availability of 800 MHz card.

    If the listing claimed it was a PCI card, then it definitely was incorrect. Overall, non-PCI Sonnet cards go up to 1.8 GHz.

    > I you now state that there were 1 GHz cards.

    As I wrote, these are not Sonnet PCI cards but various (non-Sonnet) PMC cards to be installed on a PCI carrier board. The support library is called SonnetLibrary simply because it all started with Sonnet PCI cards. Most cards currently supported by SonnetLibrary are non-Sonnet cards, though.

    > the few G4 level cpus still available range around 1.3 GHz (unless you include the 7448).

    None of these Sonnet cards are PCI so irrelevant for PCI-enabled classic Amiga.


    So provide me some info about the PMC cards.
    And the Mac compatible the card was listed along with Sonnet cards, and was listed as PCI, not a proprietary interface.

    But again, could be wrong.
    As to the 1.3 GHz cpus I was referring to, that's just the stock of processors NXP has left (outside of the 7448). Its surprisingly very few.

    So, references for the PMC cards and the carriers?
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »30.05.19 - 15:47
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4855 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    No just provide the number of the post. ;-)
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »30.05.19 - 16:04
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4855 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > the Mac compatible the card was listed along with Sonnet cards, and was listed as PCI,
    > not a proprietary interface. But again, could be wrong.

    Wrong for sure. The only Sonnet accelerators for the PCI slot are the Crescendo 7200 cards, which, as said, max out at 500 MHz. There's a Sonnet card series called Crescendo/PCI G4 available at 700, 800 and 1000 MHz, but despite the name, these are not PCI cards. Maybe it was one of these.


    Most likely, I should have noted the make and model of the computer.
    It's entirely like they implemented Apple's CPU slot.

    As to the 7200s, reverse engineering them would be a chore. Although it should be possible to add the missing multipliers.

    Still, from what I have seen, these things are a PITA to program.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »06.06.19 - 22:26
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4855 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    Kronos wrote:
    Or you could just scroll down (or up, depending on your prefs) a bit.........



    On the list of the most pointless targets for a MorphOS port (that will never happen anyways) a Mediator+Sonnet comes in below:

    X1000
    SAM440
    Yikes (B/W PowerMacG3 and early PowerMacG4)
    G3 PowerBook
    G3 iBook
    Beige G3 PowerMac
    603/604 Macs (those that the Sonnet was supposed to go in)
    BeBox
    Mac-Clones
    TeronOne


    Edith:
    The Sonnet is supposed to go into 601 based Macs, feel free to list those below the Mediator+Sonnet combo



    Considering that we are still supporting the 400MHz G3 level
    Efika, does any of this matter?

    Hey a Mediator equipped Amiga with a 500 MHz Sonnet card might be faster than the Efika.

    Accelerated Amiga's hold some kind of weird form of nostalgia, but realistically I can't see using anything before the 1.42 GHz G4.

    The fact that a 1.33 GHz accelerator could be built is mildly interesting, but I'd still rather have a late 2005 G5.

    But hey, isn't the TeronOne almost the same as a Pegasos I?
    And the only reason the X1000 has never gotten any love is because of Ben Hermans' involvement (because, let's face it, it has many advantages over an X5000).

    [ Edited by Jim 07.06.2019 - 23:17 ]
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »08.06.19 - 04:08
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    koszer
    Posts: 879 from 2004/2/8
    From: Poland
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:

    Hey a Mediator equipped Amiga with a 500 MHz Sonnet card might be faster than the Efika.


    It might, as benchmarks proved that 330 MHz (overclocked by Stachu100) 630e on a BlizzardPPC seemed to be almost as fast as Efika in some cases.
  • »08.06.19 - 07:30
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  • Moderator
    Kronos
    Posts: 1879 from 2003/2/24
    It might be faster than an Efika, but I somehow doubt the Efika would be seen as a viable target if it was released today.

    All examples I listed *could* get a MorphOS port, but none would yield a reasonable number of registrations and none is related to already supported HW closely enough to make it trivial (the TeronOne has a buggy SB on top of the buggy NB it shares with the Pegasos1).

    The Sonnet/Mediator is way down the list cos:
    - HW is even harder to get by than anything else on the list
    - requires an support OS on the 68k side to access anything that isn't on the PCI bus
    --------------------- May the 4th be with you ------------------
    Mother Russia dance of the Zar, don't you know how lucky you are
  • »08.06.19 - 08:42
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10459 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > G3 level Efika

    It's G2 level even:

    https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=11&topic_id=11137&start=744

    > a Mediator equipped Amiga with a 500 MHz Sonnet card might be faster than the Efika.

    A 500 MHz G3 trumps a 400 MHz G2, yes.

    > The fact that a 1.33 GHz accelerator could be built is mildly interesting

    Why would it be restricted to 1.33 GHz?

    > isn't the TeronOne almost the same as a Pegasos I?

    Yes, the latter is based on the former, with some enhancements like newer southbridge.

    > the only reason the X1000 has never gotten any love is because of Ben Hermans' involvement

    For some years, and as Hermans left A-Eon prior to the X1000 release, the fact that the PA6T and thus the X1000 are no longer and won't ever be available new might have been the primary reason.
  • »08.06.19 - 09:21
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Jim
    Posts: 4855 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    The primary reason I've mentioned the 1.33 GHz CPU is that it's still available and would be the easiest to adapt to that design.

    But it is a bit pointless, and as I've mentioned before,there are other platforms that make more sense.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »08.06.19 - 16:07
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10459 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > From a design standpoint, I don't think an e6500 or e5500 cored CPU
    > would be easier to implement.

    Why not? The SoC already incorporates the memory controller and other northbridge functionality, and there'd be no need to route traces from pins of unneeded on-chip peripherals.

    > The e600 cored cpus are much more similar to the cpus used on older
    > PCI boards like those we have been discussing.

    None of the designs of those older PCI boards are open, so they would have to be designed from scratch anyway.

    > the software would be the same. No need for separate development.

    The same as what? Not separate from what? It's not like MorphOS already supports older PCI-based accelerators.
    And e6500 support shouldn't be that hard given that MorphOS already supports both AltiVec and e5500.
  • »10.06.19 - 13:23
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