Cloanto sues Hyperion
  • Cocoon
    Cocoon
    Posts: 60 from 2009/5/6
    Actually I have been around and watching the pain for years and it is unfortunate for sure.
    I just believe that we make things worse by constantly posting hugely negative posts. And no I don't believe in burying my head in the sand but I do think we need to have more decent reasonable conversations. So many of these bash Hyperion (or insert ANY Amiga branded company here) ends up with wild accusations being thrown in all directions. Some of them are correct and yet others are not.. (Just like the abovementioned statement that actually turned out to be DiscreetFX. And understand I am only mentioning that one as it is a very recent example, nothing more.

    As for all of the Cloanto / Hyperion mess, if things were as simple as all of you are convinced it is there wouldn't be litigation in the first place. I see on a fairly regular basis examples of legalese and none of it is simple and nearly never easy to interpret.

    Anyway, I think my disgust at the human race in general got to me and I responded to you folks maybe a bit more harshly than I should have.

    I guess what I am really hoping for is reasonable conversation without the shit flinging.
    We have beaten this into the ground so let's move on from this part of the drama please..

    There is enough drama in daily life and I try to frequent these forums to get away from al of that and hearken back to friendlier more enjoyable computing days. Days of the Amiga..

    :O)
    "Pride is a poor substitute for intelligence." Quote from Rambo...
  • »09.11.18 - 13:49
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  • Just looking around
    Alexco
    Posts: 13 from 2015/5/16
    In my opinion, if you want to dry out this swamp of "criminal pseudo" companies you need to provide an alternative to their products which people can use.
    If AROS would be up to the task there would be no money gained by selling this old software. Also MorphOS for classic PPC would make Hyperion sweat.

    All what then would be left is something like trademarks for boing balls, check marks, Amiga, Workbench, Kickstart, etc. I think people could live with that.
  • »10.11.18 - 10:56
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10096 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > if things were as simple as all of you are convinced it is

    Please do not lump together all commenters (see last sentence of comment #56 for instance).
  • »10.11.18 - 16:07
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    TheMagicM
    Posts: 1153 from 2003/6/17
    Quote:

    outlawal2 wrote:
    I guess what I am really hoping for is reasonable conversation without the shit flinging.

    We have beaten this into the ground so let's move on from this part of the drama please..


    I've been around the Amiga for almost 30yrs, developed software run on an Amiga in a Automotive shop, was honored to be a part of Amiga.org when Wayne Hunt ran it, had the privilege of talking to BBRV in person (had his business here in Texas) and got a Peg board from BB. Then it all began with MorphOS...man..what an eye opener of an OS!! Then the drama between forums which I'll never forget/forgive, shit talking and now I just sit back and laugh at the karma.

    LMAO. I've moved on from Amiga and just pop in here and there to see what MorphOS is up to and to laugh at any drama.

    Hopefully Cloanto wins it all, everything. Amiga left to emulation and only one true OS to rule them all which is why we're allllllll here!

    Good luck setting up that kumbaya moment...
  • »10.11.18 - 16:30
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  • Cocoon
    Cocoon
    Posts: 60 from 2009/5/6
    You truly have only one track my friend. Please try to READ all of the words typed not just the few you like. NOWHERE did I ever say anything about a Kumbaya moment, that derisiveness is all your own.

    I have simply repeatedly asked for civil conversation... Something that you simply cannot seem to comprehend and your posts are exactly the kind of useless trolling that is truly not needed nor wanted.
    "Pride is a poor substitute for intelligence." Quote from Rambo...
  • »10.11.18 - 19:34
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2533 from 2003/2/24
    Hyperion and Ben Hermans needs to be cut off and removed from the Amiga body like the cancer they are. If a scalpel won’t work, then maybe a chain saw?
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »11.11.18 - 09:12
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    KennyR
    Posts: 440 from 2003/3/4
    From: #AmigaZeux, Gu...
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    >> 3.1.4 Product is gone again from Hyperion's site.

    > Payment processors easily convinced = obvious illegal activity (IMO).

    Available again:

    http://www.hyperion-entertainment.biz/index.php/where-to-buy/direct-downloads/188-amigaos-314


    Digital River now. Lets see how long it lasts this time.

    I reckon about 4 days. If they'd have done it over Thanksgiving or Christmas they might have gotten more mileage before the inevitable C&D.
  • »21.11.18 - 16:09
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10096 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Digital River now.

    Yes, same as before (which they switched to from 2Checkout/Avangate a month ago).
  • »21.11.18 - 16:50
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4714 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    takemehomegrandma wrote:
    Hyperion and Ben Hermans needs to be cut off and removed from the Amiga body like the cancer they are. If a scalpel won’t work, then maybe a chain saw?


    All someone has to do, if they are serious about it, is pay Herman's the money he wants and I am sure he would fade away.

    In the meanwhile, this thread has gotten kind of ugly.

    Look, I am no fan of Hyperion, but Cloanto's ownership claims are only backed up by Amiga Inc.

    If that isn't f'd up, I don't know what is.
    If Bill McEwen hadn't screwed this situation up, OUR OS would be Amiga OS4.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »23.11.18 - 23:47
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10096 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Cloanto's ownership claims are only backed up by Amiga Inc.

    See comment #391.

    > If Bill McEwen hadn't screwed this situation up, OUR OS would be Amiga OS4.

    I think these are two different situations he screwed up as MorphOS has nothing to do with the current mess. Or in other words: Had MorphOS become AmigaOS4 (in 2001), the situation wouldn't be screwed up, at least not as much as there would have been no older rights or licenses to any parts of the OS.
  • »24.11.18 - 07:39
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    redrumloa
    Posts: 1270 from 2003/4/13
    Quote:

    KennyR wrote:
    Available again:

    Digital River now. Lets see how long it lasts this time.

    I reckon about 4 days. If they'd have done it over Thanksgiving or Christmas they might have gotten more mileage before the inevitable C&D.


    It was done for Thanksgiving, which fell on Nov 22 this year.

    Someone posted a Hyperion poll to the Amiga Facebook Group. The poll was asking yes or no if they should "make digital version available for sale again", as if it was taken down by themselves. I answered the poll no and put in the comments "No, get legal first". I saw a couple other similar comments. Next time I checked a couple hours later, my comment and the similar comments had been deleted. Not a single comment that wasn't worshiping HYPE in nature was left.

    Not surprising, par for the course.

    [ Edited by redrumloa 24.11.2018 - 20:16 ]
  • »25.11.18 - 01:11
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    TheMagicM
    Posts: 1153 from 2003/6/17
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:

    If Bill McEwen hadn't screwed this situation up, OUR OS would be Amiga OS4.


    Dont speak for all of us in OUR... sure as shit wouldnt be my OS.
  • »25.11.18 - 03:58
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Zylesea
    Posts: 1872 from 2003/6/4
    Quote:

    Jim schrieb:

    If that isn't f'd up, I don't know what is.
    If Bill McEwen hadn't screwed this situation up, OUR OS would be Amiga OS4.


    If Hermas had't screwed things up MorphOS would be AmigaOS. But as things went I am more than happy that MorphOS is MorphOS and not AmigaOS.

    MorphOS, as well as AROS, are strong enough for themselves and are better off by avoiding that very burned name as much as possible. The only thing is these systems have their roots in Amiga.
    I would welcome it though, if MorphOS and AROS would come a bit closer together, they can benefit from each other.
    --
    http://www.via-altera.de

    Whenever you're sad just remember the world is 4.543 billion years old and you somehow managed to exist at the same time as David Bowie.
  • »25.11.18 - 09:59
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Intuition
    Posts: 1024 from 2013/5/24
    From: Englistan
    Quote:

    TheMagicM wrote:
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:

    If Bill McEwen hadn't screwed this situation up, OUR OS would be Amiga OS4.


    Dont speak for all of us in OUR... sure as shit wouldnt be my OS.


    Jim can correct me if I'm wrong but I think what he meant to say was "If Bill McEwen hadn't screwed this situation up, MorphOS would be Amiga OS4." and he'd be correct, it would have been the official Amiga OS 4 had things gone differently.
    1.67GHz 15" PowerBook G4, 1GB RAM, 128MB Radeon 9700M Pro, 64GB SSD, MorphOS 3.9

    2.7GHz DP G5, 4GB RAM, 512MB Radeon X1950 Pro, OSX 10.5.8, 500GB SSHD, MorphOS 3.9
  • »25.11.18 - 15:52
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    KennyR
    Posts: 440 from 2003/3/4
    From: #AmigaZeux, Gu...
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:
    Look, I am no fan of Hyperion, but Cloanto's ownership claims are only backed up by Amiga Inc.


    Well, that and an Amiga-centred business that dates back years.

    Hyperion, a company that hired people freelance to port failed PC games, takes a stab at making a new OS but fail hard because of the price of the hardware dongle, and suddenly become the Amiga company in fans' eyes?

    Never understood why Hyperion should be tolerated at all. We had enough problems without them trying to poison what's left.
  • »25.11.18 - 20:28
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    TheMagicM
    Posts: 1153 from 2003/6/17
    Quote:

    Intuition wrote:

    Jim can correct me if I'm wrong but I think what he meant to say was "If Bill McEwen hadn't screwed this situation up, MorphOS would be Amiga OS4." and he'd be correct, it would have been the official Amiga OS 4 had things gone differently.



    If thats the case, then he's correct. Lots of coulda, woulda, shoulda. Sucks that it didnt happen but then again, still have MorphOS without the legal bs.
  • »26.11.18 - 02:17
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  • vox
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    vox
    Posts: 428 from 2003/11/24
    From: Belgrade
    Quote:

    Zylesea wrote:
    MorphOS, as well as AROS, are strong enough for themselves and are better off by avoiding that very burned name as much as possible. The only thing is these systems have their roots in Amiga.
    I would welcome it though, if MorphOS and AROS would come a bit closer together, they can benefit from each other.


    Would love to see AROS and MOS coming together - especially if that would mean not only more life and development, but m68k and x64 versions too (alongside maintaining PPC32/PPC64). Would buy MOS for e.g. Vamps if backported to m68k and that would be a real advancement, not a minor fix for milking like OS 3.1.4.

    Vamp is a bit cornered, since it needs legal OS for standalone sales.

    Hyperion mistakes actually leave place for MorphOS to grow.

    As an example, if MOS 3.11 gets to support x5000 board and Radeon 7xxx HDs fully,
    it would became preffered OS on x5000 :-)
    ------------------------------------------
    x1000 user, ASAP Vampire Standalone user, future MOS user
  • »26.11.18 - 07:28
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    zukow
    Posts: 487 from 2005/2/9
    From: Poland
    I recently run MorphOS 3.12 beta on Amiga 1200 with 333Mhz 603e and it is usable but it's slow. Vampire is 3-4 times slower. Nowadays only sensible classic (1200/4000) solution is Mediator with some PCI card with PowerPC (like Bigfoot K1). Nothing else. Maybe announced 060 card from guys here in Poland will have better speed than Vampire2, but it still will be slower than any PPC.
  • »26.11.18 - 09:16
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  • vox
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    vox
    Posts: 428 from 2003/11/24
    From: Belgrade
    Quote:

    zukow wrote:
    I recently run MorphOS 3.12 beta on Amiga 1200 with 333Mhz 603e and it is usable but it's slow. Vampire is 3-4 times slower. Nowadays only sensible classic (1200/4000) solution is Mediator with some PCI card with PowerPC (like Bigfoot K1). Nothing else. Maybe announced 060 card from guys here in Poland will have better speed than Vampire2, but it still will be slower than any PPC.


    Yes, current V2 is x2 060 but few less then Efika/604. However per clock, 080 is faster
    then 604e, so in v4 breaking 100MHz and afterwards, Vampire will be more powerful then 603
    160Mhz. Esp. it already is in mem area. Next one in few years could reach G3 levels of performance by simple clockrate. Arhitecture is mature and superior to pre G4 PPCs, only limit is that FPGA cannot reach high clocks currently.

    Mediator PCI card featuring G3 or so would be great, but that failed to materialize few times.

    On PPC side, full G5 support, improved x5000 and possible x1000 support would bring new licences and make PPC64 edition of MorphOS 4 viable too.

    In time, m68k or better to say m68k 64-bit port (080) could be viable. Vamps are in demand of legal OS, and its another area where MOS could shine.
    ------------------------------------------
    x1000 user, ASAP Vampire Standalone user, future MOS user
  • »26.11.18 - 11:50
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  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    dekanyz
    Posts: 93 from 2013/2/6
    From: Hungary
    I'm really sad because of this situation: This small community is flawed so much, while crawling behind the other OSs... and the distance grows every day. I think, maintaining too many NG Amiga systems is a huge waste of time. Especially, since they aren't compatible. Porting too many tools/libs/games to every system simply makes no sense.

    I have used MOS as the main OS since MOS 3.0, but switched back to Linux two months ago. I'm amazed, how many great new programs appeared in the last few years, since on Amiga, everybody is happy to see any small scripts/tools. Often the most basic tools aren't exists at all. :(

    I am sad, because I really like to use MOS and it's programs: Ambient, ShowCase, FlowStudio, some smaller utils was really a joy to use for me and often miss them on Linux.

    I keep an eye on how things going on and hope, that the situation will be better... one day.
  • »26.11.18 - 12:42
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  • Moderator
    Kronos
    Posts: 1826 from 2003/2/24
    @vox

    - per clock, 080 is faster

    -> never ever trust benchmarks by Gunnar !!!!

    -so in v4 breaking 100MHz and afterwards, Vampire will be more
    -powerful then 603 160Mhz.

    -> in a few years Vampire might be just as fast as something that is barely useable today

    - next one in few years could reach G3

    -> ASS U MEing FPGAs scale up that nicely can be used for anything Amiga and someone is willing to utilize them


    -->> porting MorphOS to "oldworld" Macs (60x to G3) would make more sense (well still close to 0).
    --------------------- May the 4th be with you ------------------
    Mother Russia dance of the Zar, don't you know how lucky you are
  • »26.11.18 - 13:39
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  • vox
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    vox
    Posts: 428 from 2003/11/24
    From: Belgrade
    Kronos wrote:
    - per clock, 080 is faster
    -> never ever trust benchmarks by Gunnar !!!!


    Why do you believe they are flawed? CPU exceeds 060 in real use,
    memory performance is excellent (faster then x1000 DDR2 - did the test)

    -so in v4 breaking 100MHz and afterwards, Vampire will be more
    -powerful then 603 160Mhz.

    -> in a few years Vampire might be just as fast as something that is barely useable today

    True, but in its own m68k league is a champ and advancement. Reason why I opt for it is real non-emulated m68k app library and games.

    It simply just needs a faster FPGA (or ASIC) and that is it.Its not something one cannot expect to be.

    -->> porting MorphOS to "oldworld" Macs (60x to G3) would make more sense (well still close to 0).

    Well, yes to A1, G3 and G5 Macs would be nice, since Efika is out of picture as its low end.

    Other easier option would simple be AmiKit X for Vamp.

    But MorphOS going multi-arch sounds tempting :-) Plus it has 0 past junk with Amiga Inc,
    which seems to be great adventage now.


    What people miss is that Vamps do progress inside a generation (v2,v4) and between them. I dont see such thing with PPCs and would be much more amazed if we had FPGA onboard x1000/x5000 then unusable Xorro, whereby even manufacturer of chips does not intend to port even Linux x86 tools to Linux PPC.

    [ Edited by vox 26.11.2018 - 15:17 ]
    ------------------------------------------
    x1000 user, ASAP Vampire Standalone user, future MOS user
  • »26.11.18 - 13:54
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  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    dekanyz
    Posts: 93 from 2013/2/6
    From: Hungary
    I have a 1.67GHz PowerBook and it's power is (almost) not enough for every day activities, like browsing the web, watching pictures, and soo on... I think Vampire is good for old 68k systems, if somebody want a fast classic, but the G3s are slow for anything.

    I hope, the dream of moving to x86 becomes true and we will have a recent Amiga system again.
  • »26.11.18 - 14:13
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    redrumloa
    Posts: 1270 from 2003/4/13
    Quote:

    Kronos wrote:
    @vox

    - per clock, 080 is faster

    -> never ever trust benchmarks by Gunnar !!!!



    I trust what I have in my own hands. I own a Vampire v2 in an A500 and it is absolutely amazing. I would not go back to a Amiga-PPC system if you paid me. I only got an A500 again because of he Vampire, and it does not disappoint.

    Here's an example. On this A500 with Shapeshifter I can run Warcraft II very, very comfortably. Not only is it the fastest 68k Amiga, it is by far and away the fastest 68k Mac.

    When v4 comes out for the A500, I will order it first day. Even faster plus 512MB system RAM? Yes please!
  • »26.11.18 - 15:39
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