Small annoyance when selecting files/directories
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    TheMagicM
    Posts: 1153 from 2003/6/17
    Is there a way to disable the way MorphOS selects files?

    Meaning, if I select one file by left clicking and I want to copy it to a different folder then I try to drag it, if its not dragged exactly parallel then it will select multiple files. Is there a way to make it not do that?
  • »09.07.18 - 02:33
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    igracki
    Posts: 315 from 2003/2/24
    From: Berlin
    I don't think so, because else you wouldn't be able to multiselect multiple files/dirs with one "drag".

    You can use the Copy/Paste buttons to copy entries between listers!
  • »09.07.18 - 04:35
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  • ASiegel
    Posts: 1101 from 2003/2/15
    From: Central Europe
    @ igracki

    On other platforms, file managers distinguish between dragging and selecting by monitoring whether a user left-clicks on a file's name or icon or whether a user clicks somewhere else (usuually inbetween columns). This works quite well.
  • »09.07.18 - 10:07
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    NewSense
    Posts: 706 from 2012/11/10
    From: Manchester, UK...
    If you are in List Viewmode then that is what happens.

    However, if you change to Icons Viewmode, then you can select individual files/drawers, or multi-select them by either "lassoing" (left-click and drag a lasso/box around) the ones you want to copy.

    You can also just left click on one, then hold down the Shift key, and click once on whichever file you want to copy, and click again on it if you want to cancel that file/drawer, and keep ging until you have selected all the ones you want to copy.

    You can also do a combination of lasso and click on files to select the ones you want to copy.

    You can also select all files from the Edit menu "Select All", or from the right-click context menu.

    I hope this is helpful, though I feel sure you'll know most of these options. :-)

    I hope I am on the correct "wavelength"/topic this time. ;-)
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  • »10.07.18 - 01:43
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    TheMagicM
    Posts: 1153 from 2003/6/17
    Yea thats what I dont like. I'm in list view mode and the problem is once I select a file, if I try to "pick up" that file and I drag it to a window I have to drag it exactly paralell out of its window otherwise I select more files. Its weird. No other OS does it the wrong way like that.
  • »10.07.18 - 11:37
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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Jeckel
    Posts: 123 from 2007/3/11
    In Ambient, the way of handling multi-selection different (inherited from Directory Opus, FileMaster and other traditional file managers). So, drag and drop cannot be handled like on other file managers with no direct multi-selection.

    On other file managers you need to use a secondary qualifier to do multi-selection, which is also a pain.

    I'm not sure there is a way to have both usages optimal (direct multi-selection and drag and drop). In Windows version of Directory Opus, you have to choose between "power mode" (direct multi-selection) or "basic mode" (direct drag and drop).
  • »10.07.18 - 11:46
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  • ASiegel
    Posts: 1101 from 2003/2/15
    From: Central Europe
    @ Jeckel

    Quote:

    In Ambient, the way of handling multi-selection different (inherited from Directory Opus, FileMaster and other traditional file managers). So, drag and drop cannot be handled like on other file managers with no direct multi-selection.

    On other file managers you need to use a secondary qualifier to do multi-selection, which is also a pain.

    Please see my comment above.

    You do not need to use secondary qualifiers with Finder on MacOS or File Explorer on Windows, just to name the two most prominent examples. If you click on the visible parts of a file name, the file managers assume you want to drag a selection of files or the single file you are clicking on. If, however, you click in some "white space" (or alternatively secondary columns like the date one in MacOS) and move the mouse pointer, then the file managers assume that you want to select multiple files instead.

    Before this discussion thread I never even consciously thought about it or had to read up on this in a user manual. It is just really easy to figure out on your own and very convenient.

    By comparison, the current Ambient implementation that tries to retrofit dragging & dropping on top of how old file managers handled multi-selection of files is - as others mentioned - rather annoying and very much unintuitive. People should not have to use laser focus to be able to complete a simple task such as dragging a file from one window to another without copying additional files because the mouse movement deviated by 3 degrees from the X axis.

    Considering all the great features Ambient has, it is quite disappointing that such basic functionality had been botched like this.
  • »10.07.18 - 14:22
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Tom01
    Posts: 154 from 2009/9/20
    I have no Problem with Ambients File-Selection.
  • »10.07.18 - 15:22
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10063 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > the current Ambient implementation that tries to retrofit dragging
    > & dropping on top of how old file managers handled multi-selection
    > of files is [...] rather annoying and very much unintuitive. [...]
    > it is quite disappointing that such basic functionality had been
    > botched like this.

    Weren't you as a MorphOS team member able to influence your team colleagues working on Ambient? Or maybe you could do for MorphOS 3.12? That would be nice.
  • »10.07.18 - 17:24
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    TheMagicM
    Posts: 1153 from 2003/6/17
    Quote:

    ASiegel wrote:
    By comparison, the current Ambient implementation that tries to retrofit dragging & dropping on top of how old file managers handled multi-selection of files is - as others mentioned - rather annoying and very much unintuitive. People should not have to use laser focus to be able to complete a simple task such as dragging a file from one window to another without copying additional files because the mouse movement deviated by 3 degrees from the X axis.



    Bingo. Thats the issue I'm having. This "feature" is not normal. To me its a bug and/or a design flaw.
  • »10.07.18 - 18:58
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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Jeckel
    Posts: 123 from 2007/3/11
    Quote:

    ASiegel wrote:
    You do not need to use secondary qualifiers with Finder on MacOS or File Explorer on Windows [...]



    Thx for the remark.

    I did not know about this. I guess I already noticed some kind of weird things when clicking in Windows Explorer but without understanding its actual behaviour. Even if it is not intuitive (maybe some visuals are missing to locate and understand the different click areas), it might actually be a good option to avoid qualifiers and easy drag and drop.
  • »11.07.18 - 08:18
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  • ASiegel
    Posts: 1101 from 2003/2/15
    From: Central Europe
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    Weren't you as a MorphOS team member able to influence your team colleagues working on Ambient?

    I did not have an operational MorphOS system when these things were being developed.

    Quote:

    Or maybe you could do for MorphOS 3.12? That would be nice.

    Well, I was replying to igracki earlier in this discussion thread who has made several updates to Ambient for 3.10 and 3.11 and might address this as well...
  • »11.07.18 - 08:50
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    TheMagicM
    Posts: 1153 from 2003/6/17
    What I see, for example, in Windows if you select lets say 3 files.. then you left click and hold the button down, the mouse arrow doesnt let you move beyond those 3 to select more files. That would prevent the issue we have.
  • »11.07.18 - 11:39
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    igracki
    Posts: 315 from 2003/2/24
    From: Berlin
    This is handled in List.mui, so this should be fixed/changed there so all applications using List.mui would have the same behaviour.

    Maybe a fix could be to detect if the mouse was moved "more horizontally than vertically" after left clicking and then disable multiselection!?
    This way a selection of one entry to drag it to another lister would be recognized.
  • »11.07.18 - 13:12
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Tom01
    Posts: 154 from 2009/9/20
    I could easily figure out and use Ambients File-Selection on my own.
    This is the first time I heard about macOS and Windows File-Selection-Method.
  • »11.07.18 - 15:18
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  • ASiegel
    Posts: 1101 from 2003/2/15
    From: Central Europe
    @ Tom1

    Nobody is complaining about the actual method of selecting files nor has anybody stated difficulties with figuring out how Ambient works. There is no need to insuate others are merely ignorant.

    Our complaint is that we do know exactly how Ambinet does things, and we just do not like this particular aspect.

    Once again, the issue is that dragging either a single file or multiple files between windows in list mode fails in many cases unless you pay extremely close attention in order to move the mouse pointer in a near-perfect straight horizontal line, which can be _extremely_ difficult to do depending on how wide and how far apart the source and destination windows are...

    Understanding what you need to do in this scenario does not help with actually completing the action.
  • »11.07.18 - 15:44
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10063 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > I was replying to igracki earlier in this discussion thread who has made several updates
    > to Ambient for 3.10 and 3.11 and might address this as well...

    Thanks for clarification. I wasn't aware that igracki was (co-)developing Ambient these days.
  • »11.07.18 - 18:17
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4703 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    @ Andreas,

    I think he might mean Andre, but I can't parse other people's poorly worded sentences.
    And I don't have a clue which developers are supporting Ambient.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »11.07.18 - 21:31
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10063 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    >>>>> the current Ambient implementation that tries to retrofit dragging &
    >>>>> dropping on top of how old file managers handled multi-selection of
    >>>>> files is [...] rather annoying and very much unintuitive. [...] it is quite
    >>>>> disappointing that such basic functionality had been botched like this.

    >>>> Weren't you as a MorphOS team member able to influence your team
    >>>> colleagues working on Ambient? Or maybe you could do for MorphOS 3.12?

    >>> I was replying to igracki earlier in this discussion thread who has made several
    >>> updates to Ambient for 3.10 and 3.11 and might address this as well...

    >> Thanks for clarification. I wasn't aware that igracki was (co-)developing Ambient
    >> these days.

    > I think he might mean Andre

    I think it's unlikely that ASiegel means André. At least it wouldn't make sense for ASiegel to criticize Ambient functionality when André was an Ambient developer, would it? ;-)

    > I can't parse other people's poorly worded sentences.

    I don't think ASiegel words his sentences poorly.
  • »11.07.18 - 22:48
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4703 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    @ Andreas,

    Andre isn't referring to Andre...
    You have a point there.

    Perhaps its just my understanding that is poor.
    I'll bow out and just follow this, since the issue has frustrated me before.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »12.07.18 - 13:05
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