JIT JS Bounty - update
  • Jim
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    Jim
    Posts: 4692 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    waldiamiga wrote:
    Bigfoot rulez!
    Thanks Pampers.


    Stating the obvious, eh? If we get R600 AGP support for our G5 and this? Hey, the man needs some time for a vacation.
    BTW - How much was the bounty?

    [ Edited by Jim 22.05.2018 - 19:34 ]
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »22.05.18 - 21:59
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9932 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > How much was the bounty?

    See comment #30 :-)
  • »23.05.18 - 12:55
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  • Jim
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    Jim
    Posts: 4692 from 2009/1/28
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    Hmm, I had to do a zolty to USD conversion and then compare that the to euro equivalent listed to wrap my head around that, but that isn't bad.

    Not a fortune, but still cool to see Mark get some compensation.
    He is a great guy, and he's made some magnificent contributions to the OS.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »23.05.18 - 16:10
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    koszer
    Posts: 825 from 2004/2/8
    From: Poland
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:
    Hmm, I had to do a zolty to USD conversion


    Not that it really matters, but it's zloty (złoty, to be precise). Zolty (żółty) would mean "yellow", while "złoty" means "golden".
  • »23.05.18 - 19:21
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  • Jim
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    Jim
    Posts: 4692 from 2009/1/28
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    Quote:

    koszer wrote:
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:
    Hmm, I had to do a zolty to USD conversion


    Not that it really matters, but it's zloty (złoty, to be precise). Zolty (żółty) would mean "yellow", while "złoty" means "golden".



    Sorry, Polish of all languages defeats me so often.
    I should have checked that, but even a translation program would have left me clueless.
    It gets worse if you try to use a Polish to English translator.
    Curiously enough, German and French are comparatively easy, its probably due more to crappy programming then anything else.

    Just out of curiosity, what are the roots of the language?
    Many credit English, French, and Spanish as having common roots as so called "romance" languages, but there is a strong German influence there that doesn't always get acknowledged.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »23.05.18 - 19:59
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9932 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Many credit English [...] as having [...] roots as so called "romance" languages,
    > but there is a strong German influence there

    There's a strong German influence in the English language because English is a Germanic language, not a Romance language.
  • »23.05.18 - 20:21
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  • Jim
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    Jim
    Posts: 4692 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > Many credit English [...] as having [...] roots as so called "romance" languages,
    > but there is a strong German influence there

    There's a strong German influence in the English language because English is a Germanic language, not a Romance language.


    Good point, English is sort of a "mutt", born in part from the Anglo Saxon period, but with influences from the later Anglo Norman period (which explains the French influence)
    So there are common points with the so called "Romance" languages (although some of these might reflect Germanic influences as well).
    For a country that prides itself on its independence, it seems to have been occupied a fair number of times (from the days of Roman occupation on).

    But that still doesn't tell me anything about the roots of the Polish language.
    And I actually was interested in that.
    Its one of the countries we didn't focus on in our educational system (actually, there were a lot of those).

    Edit - So...why ask for education from you guys when I can just Google it? Fascinating, quite along history, and a Slavic base for the language (which explain why it sounds like Russian to me).

    [ Edited by Jim 23.05.2018 - 19:00 ]
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »23.05.18 - 21:01
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  • MorphOS Developer
    bigfoot
    Posts: 304 from 2003/4/11
    Hi everyone,

    I just wanted to give an update on this project.

    When I started working on the OWB JIT project, the source code I had available was for OWB 1.23, so that was the version my work was based on. I've successfully implemented the JIT for OWB 1.23, and as far as I can tell, it works without any hiccups.

    Next step has been (and still is) making the JIT code work with OWB 1.24. Long story short, the Webkit version in OWB 1.24 requires more work to be done which wasn't necessary for OWB 1.23. I do now have a build of OWB 1.24 with JIT enabled, but there are still some sites that exhibit problems with this version. I however don't foresee these problems to take very long to fix. My hope is that some time next week, I can release a version of OWB 1.24 with JIT enabled for public testing.

    Please note, however, that this public test will only have the first level of JIT enabled. In my own tests, the first level of JIT is about 3 times as fast as the non-JIT version in a graphical Javascript test. The second level of JIT is still on my to-do list.
    I rarely log in to MorphZone which means that I often miss private messages sent on here. If you wish to contact me, please email me at [username]@asgaard.morphos-team.net, where [username] is my username here on MorphZone.
  • »08.06.18 - 13:34
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
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    NewSense
    Posts: 672 from 2012/11/10
    From: Manchester, UK...
    Quote:

    bigfoot wrote: ... working on the OWB JIT project, the source code I had available was for OWB 1.23, so that was the version my work was based on. I've successfully implemented the JIT for OWB 1.23, and as far as I can tell, it works without any hiccups.

    That's the version I use, as the OWB v1.24 that was released with MorphOS v3.10 just doesn't, for me at least, "cut the mustard"/work well, and on some websites it works a lot worse on than v1.23 does, so for me I'd like to get to use the v1.23 initially as/when you feel happy to let us all have a go with that. 8-D
    Quote:

    bigfoot wrote: Next step has been (and still is) making the JIT code work with OWB 1.24........ My hope is that some time next week, I can release a version of OWB 1.24 with JIT enabled for public testing.

    You've certainly worked efficiently to have made such progress in such a short space of time .... SuperMan ... err. SuperMark 8-D
    Quote:

    bigfoot wrote: Please note, however, that this public test will only have the first level of JIT enabled. In my own tests, the first level of JIT is about 3 times as fast as the non-JIT version in a graphical Javascript test. The second level of JIT is still on my to-do list.

    You the Man !! :-)
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  • »08.06.18 - 20:18
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  • Order of the Butterfly
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    amyren
    Posts: 202 from 2010/5/15
    From: Norway
    Quote:

    bigfoot wrote:
    Please note, however, that this public test will only have the first level of JIT enabled. In my own tests, the first level of JIT is about 3 times as fast as the non-JIT version in a graphical Javascript test. The second level of JIT is still on my to-do list.

    Noob question, how many levels of JIT are there?
  • »09.06.18 - 09:16
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    koszer
    Posts: 825 from 2004/2/8
    From: Poland
    This is so cool I feel frozen. I cannot wait to try out the beta.
  • »09.06.18 - 12:38
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Intuition
    Posts: 1009 from 2013/5/24
    From: Englistan
    Quote:

    bigfoot wrote:
    Hi everyone,

    I just wanted to give an update on this project.

    When I started working on the OWB JIT project, the source code I had available was for OWB 1.23, so that was the version my work was based on. I've successfully implemented the JIT for OWB 1.23, and as far as I can tell, it works without any hiccups.

    Next step has been (and still is) making the JIT code work with OWB 1.24. Long story short, the Webkit version in OWB 1.24 requires more work to be done which wasn't necessary for OWB 1.23. I do now have a build of OWB 1.24 with JIT enabled, but there are still some sites that exhibit problems with this version. I however don't foresee these problems to take very long to fix. My hope is that some time next week, I can release a version of OWB 1.24 with JIT enabled for public testing.

    Please note, however, that this public test will only have the first level of JIT enabled. In my own tests, the first level of JIT is about 3 times as fast as the non-JIT version in a graphical Javascript test. The second level of JIT is still on my to-do list.



    Excellent news!

    Eventually would be nice if all three versions of Odyssey could be merged into one code base.
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  • »09.06.18 - 16:48
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  • Order of the Butterfly
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    r-tea
    Posts: 291 from 2005/3/27
    From: Poland, Zdzies...
    Quote:

    koszer wrote:
    Zolty (żółty) would mean "yellow", while "złoty" means "golden".




    Whatever. In RGB values golden is actually yellow.
    ;-)
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  • »16.06.18 - 21:39
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  • Cocoon
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    waldiamiga
    Posts: 56 from 2007/7/25
    From: Krakow, Poland
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:
    But that still doesn't tell me anything about the roots of the Polish language.
    And I actually was interested in that.
    Its one of the countries we didn't focus on in our educational system (actually, there were a lot of those).



    Of course, you read the right article on
    wikipedia

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  • »17.06.18 - 09:11
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  • Jim
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    Jim
    Posts: 4692 from 2009/1/28
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    Yez, koszer covered much of that and some other points in a few exchanged PMs.
    Facinating country.
    Here, outside of native americans, history is so much briefer.

    It's like a science experiment where we are patting ourselves on the back in success when we have just started.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »18.06.18 - 04:17
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  • Just looking around
    Posts: 13 from 2017/8/9
    Just curious... would it be possible to re-use some of the PPC JIT JavaScript VM work done on TenFourFox?

    http://tenfourfox.blogspot.com/
    http://www.floodgap.com/software/tenfourfox/

    I know that's the Mozilla codebase rather than the WebKit codebase, but I also know he's done a lot of work on PowerPC-ifying its JIT JavaScript VM.
  • »21.06.18 - 17:08
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
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    NewSense
    Posts: 672 from 2012/11/10
    From: Manchester, UK...
    Surely it wouldn't do any harm for someone from the MorphOS Development Team to approach Cameron Kaiser, if he's still the main maintainer and person to offer any useable assistance with TenFourFox, to be able as the legal owner of such code, and offer any agreement to authorise the MorphOS Development Team to utilise such code.
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  • »21.06.18 - 21:20
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  • ASiegel
    Posts: 1062 from 2003/2/15
    From: Central Europe
    Quote:

    NewSense wrote:
    Surely it wouldn't do any harm for someone from the MorphOS Development Team to approach Cameron Kaiser, if he's still the main maintainer and person to offer any useable assistance with TenFourFox, to be able as the legal owner of such code, and offer any agreement to authorise the MorphOS Development Team to utilise such code.

    Surely there is also no harm in asking Bill Gates for the Windows source code. Unfortunately, it would yield about as much results.

    You cannot just use the Javascript interpreter / compiler from one web browser and "bolt" it on to a completely different web browser engine. If it was easy, you can rest assured that internetzel would have done it by now.

    Considering that another Javascript JIT compiler has already been in development for MorphOS and should become available in the foreseeable future, as stated in this very discussion thread, what would be the point in starting work on porting another one? I am sorry but what you are proposing makes no sense.
  • »21.06.18 - 21:30
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9932 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > authorise the MorphOS Development Team to utilise such code

    TenFourFox is licensed under MPL2 open-source license, so no authorization required.
  • »21.06.18 - 22:56
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
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    NewSense
    Posts: 672 from 2012/11/10
    From: Manchester, UK...
    Quote:

    ASiegel wrote: Surely there is also no harm in asking Bill Gates for the Windows source code.

    My thought is that all of code that relates to TenFourFox may be useful to developers for OWB, as a reference, AND , as Andreas_Wolf has since pointed out, Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf: TenFourFox is licensed under MPL2 open-source license, so no authorization required.

    Quote:

    ASiegel wrote: You cannot just use the Javascript interpreter / compiler from one web browser and "bolt" it on to a completely different web browser engine. If it was easy, you can rest assured that internetzel would have done it by now.

    As I mentioned above, I wasn't just thinking of only the JavaScript, that I am fully aware Mark Olsen (bigfoot) is currently working on for us, but the whole code that Cameron Kaiser has worked on, as he may be sympathetic to our cause as there are not so/as many PPC systems left to utilise any PPC code, let alone his PPC code, and he may like to see it still get utilised by others, and offer us some help in understanding it, implementing it for our benefit, considering all the hours of hard work he must have put in to get it to where it is now, rather than he see it end up in the digital data wasteland, that is becoming larger year by year.
    Quote:

    ASiegel wrote: Considering that another Javascript JIT compiler has already been in development for MorphOS and should become available in the foreseeable future, as stated in this very discussion thread, what would be the point in starting work on porting another one? I am sorry but what you are proposing makes no sense.

    The JavaScript part above I already referred to, so I'll not mention that further, but I am not, and I feel you must be in the same position - unsure as to whether it makes any sense or not, to ask the question, because if it is not asked how can anyone know if the question was worth asking or not until it has been asked? :-?
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  • »22.06.18 - 07:19
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  • ASiegel
    Posts: 1062 from 2003/2/15
    From: Central Europe
    Quote:

    NewSense wrote:
    Quote:

    ASiegel wrote: Surely there is also no harm in asking Bill Gates for the Windows source code.

    My thought is that all of code that relates to TenFourFox may be useful to developers for OWB

    With regard to Odyssey, it is generally not.

    Quote:

    as a reference, AND , as Andreas_Wolf has since pointed out

    Unlike you, I already knew the license as well as the fact that it is based on Firefox (ESR). The Firefox sources have always been open.

    Quote:

    but the whole code that Cameron Kaiser has worked on, as he may be sympathetic to our cause as there are not so/as many PPC systems left to utilise any PPC code, let alone his PPC code, and he may like to see it still get utilised by others, and offer us some help in understanding it, implementing it for our benefit, considering all the hours of hard work he must have put in to get it to where it is now, rather than he see it end up in the digital data wasteland, that is becoming larger year by year.

    If you would like to see Cameron Kaiser's work be used on other platforms, please feel free to find volunteers who will port Firefox / TenFourFox to MorphOS. Before you do, you might want to try it on MacOS first, however.

    Quote:

    I am not, and I feel you must be in the same position - unsure as to whether it makes any sense or not, to ask the question, because if it is not asked how can anyone know if the question was worth asking or not until it has been asked? :-?

    You did not ask a question. If you had asked "Is there any value in the TenFourFox source code with regard to MorphOS?", that would have been perfectly fine.

    Instead, you specifically addessed the MorphOS development team and requested that they use their personal free time to contact another developer simply because you instinctively felt that it must be a good idea...
  • »22.06.18 - 09:56
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9932 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > My thought is that all of code that relates to TenFourFox
    > may be useful to developers for OWB, as a reference

    I don't think this is the case. As the browser components are heavily intertwined, being able to use code from one browser for another browser based on a completely different code base is more the exception rather than the rule, even as reference.

    > the whole code that Cameron Kaiser has worked on, as he may be
    > sympathetic to our cause as there are not so/as many PPC systems
    > left to utilise any PPC code, let alone his PPC code

    TenFourFox is written in C++, not in "PPC code". Exceptions to this are the JavaScript JIT compiler and AltiVec/VMX vectorizations of some decoders (audio/video, images etc.).

    > I am not [...] unsure as to whether it makes any sense or not

    ;-)
  • »22.06.18 - 10:53
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  • MorphOS Developer
    bigfoot
    Posts: 304 from 2003/4/11
    It's been a bit more than a month since I last posted, and obviously my last prediction didn't come true. The remaining 1.24/1.25 bugs were quite a bit tougher to debug than I had expected, but we're getting closer, and it's ready for the first round of public testing.

    First the caveats:

    1) This still only has the first level JIT enabled, as the second level still needs some debug work. The first level of JIT is not super fast compared to the non-JIT version, so it won't feel super snappy compared to before. Don't expect miracles.

    2) Some things might still be broken. If you discover things that don't work with the JIT version, but do work with the non-JIT version, please let me know. Let me just emphasise that I can't do anything about things that also don't work with the non-JIT version right now, so I'm only looking for reports of things that work with the non-JIT version but don't with the JIT version.

    3) You need OWB 1.25 (from MorphOS 3.11) already installed. Extract the archive in your OWB directory, and then run OWB-JIT to test the JIT version.

    And then the link: https://bigfoot.morphos-team.net/test/OWB-JIT.lha

    I'm not done working on this, and there will be more updates in the future, hopefully with the second level JIT enabled as well at the very least. However, I will be unable to do any work on OWB for the next 3-4 weeks, so any further updates will happen in the second half of August at the earliest.

    [ Edited by bigfoot 18.07.2018 - 13:35 ]
    I rarely log in to MorphZone which means that I often miss private messages sent on here. If you wish to contact me, please email me at [username]@asgaard.morphos-team.net, where [username] is my username here on MorphZone.
  • »18.07.18 - 11:47
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