MorphOS on AmigaOne X5000?
  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Spectre660
    Posts: 135 from 2015/6/30
    Nice Video.

    Perhaps time to see if A-Eon and some of the X5000 dealers are interested in providing some tangible support for fast tracking MorphOS Radeon SI support .
  • »11.04.18 - 18:51
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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Spectre660
    Posts: 135 from 2015/6/30
    Also the Sam460 SDcard img can be used to boot the X5000 instead of the MorphOS 3.10 CD.
    Image can be written to a USB thumb drive.
    Boot by entering the X5000 U-boot command line and entering :
    usb reset ; run mos
    Then pressing Enter key on your keyboard
  • »11.04.18 - 19:00
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    AyoS
    Posts: 410 from 2003/8/13
    From: West Palm Beac...
    Any Performance #'s or examples of the X5000 with Morphos compared to the G5 Macs?
  • »17.04.18 - 05:34
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    koszer
    Posts: 726 from 2004/2/8
    From: Poland
    Quote:

    AyoS wrote:
    Any Performance #'s or examples of the X5000 with Morphos compared to the G5 Macs?


    It's pretty much apples vs oranges competition when it comes to available gfx cards for instance. But when it comes to raw CPU power we have f.ex. RC5/OGR benchmarks:

    OGR-NG:
    PowerMac G5 2,7 GHz 42,445,595 nodes/sec (using its fastest crunching "core" - KOGE 3.1 Hybrid)
    PowerMac G5 2,7 GHz 22,812,159 nodes/sec (using crunching "core" - Scalar)
    AmigaOne X5000/040 2,2 GHz 22,245,376 nodes/sec (using its fastest crunchng "core" - Scalar)
    AmigaOne X5000/020 2,0 GHz 20,136,464 nodes/sec (using its fastest crunching "core" - Scalar)

    RC5-72:
    PowerMac G5 2,7 GHz 19,692,869 keys/sec (using its fastest "core" - KKS 7450)
    AmigaOne X5000/040 2,2 GHz 6,182,771 keys/sec (using its fastest "core" - KKS 604e)
    PowerMac G5 2,7 GHz 5,837,713 keys/sec (using "core" KKS 604e)
    AmigaOne X5000/020 2,0 GHz 5,590,276 keys/sec (using its fastest "core" - KKS 604e)

    I'm personally counting on comparative benchmarks made on the same computer.
  • »17.04.18 - 10:54
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  • Caterpillar
    Caterpillar
    Fogg_80
    Posts: 35 from 2007/11/12
    From: Foggia, south ...
    Quote:

    Spectre660 wrote:
    Also the Sam460 SDcard img can be used to boot the X5000 instead of the MorphOS 3.10 CD.
    Image can be written to a USB thumb drive.
    Boot by entering the X5000 U-boot command line and entering :
    usb reset ; run mos
    Then pressing Enter key on your keyboard


    Thank you for your suggestion. How can I write the image on usb media? Thank you again.
    Stile Ubuntu
    Sorry for my bad english.
  • »17.04.18 - 12:05
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9610 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Any Performance #'s or examples of the X5000 with Morphos
    > compared to the G5 Macs?

    See comment #594 for CPU and memory benchmark comparison, done with MorphOS 3.9 on PowerMac7,3 and a January 2016 development version of MorphOS 3.10 on the X5000.
  • »17.04.18 - 12:14
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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Spectre660
    Posts: 135 from 2015/6/30
    You can do it from AmigaOS 4.1 with the rawdisk command.
    You need to make sure that you are writing to the right USB device. eg USB0: or USB1:
    Use a USB 2.0 device .


    rawdisk from morphos-3.10.hdimg to USB1:

    Quote:

    Fogg_80 wrote:
    Quote:

    Spectre660 wrote:
    Also the Sam460 SDcard img can be used to boot the X5000 instead of the MorphOS 3.10 CD.
    Image can be written to a USB thumb drive.
    Boot by entering the X5000 U-boot command line and entering :
    usb reset ; run mos
    Then pressing Enter key on your keyboard


    Thank you for your suggestion. How can I write the image on usb media? Thank you again.




    [ Edited by Spectre660 17.04.2018 - 08:28 ]
  • »17.04.18 - 12:24
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4449 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > Aaron Smith over at Amiga on the Lake

    ...created a video showing how to install MorphOS 3.10 on the X5000 a week ago:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtfkB6yN-58


    The volume on that video is too low for me to hear correctly.
    Other YouTube videos work fine, so I'm not sure what is up there.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »18.04.18 - 18:25
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  • Cocoon
    Cocoon
    bennymee
    Posts: 60 from 2004/4/14
    From: Netherlands
    Quote:

    Spectre660 wrote:
    Nice Video.

    Perhaps time to see if A-Eon and some of the X5000 dealers are interested in providing some tangible support for fast tracking MorphOS Radeon SI support .


    A win win situation? OS4 has these drivers, Hans is hired by A-eon and the latter is interested in supporting Mos.
  • »18.04.18 - 20:32
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4449 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    bennymee wrote:
    Quote:

    Spectre660 wrote:
    Nice Video.

    Perhaps time to see if A-Eon and some of the X5000 dealers are interested in providing some tangible support for fast tracking MorphOS Radeon SI support .


    A win win situation? OS4 has these drivers, Hans is hired by A-eon and the latter is interested in supporting Mos.



    Not really. Hans is paid to develop graphics drivers under contract to Aeon for OS4, Aeon's preferred operating system.
    Frank and Mark aren't paid to develop our graphics drivers under MorphOS.

    And our OpenGL implementations are pretty different.

    I don't know that our developers would want to enlist the help of a paid OS4 coder, and I'm not sure that they need that help.

    What you probably aren't aware of is that Mark hasn't been working solely on graphics drivers, and yet he's still managed to update all the drivers that didn't have 2D acceleration and add support for all video cards/gpus up to those that are GCN based.

    Don't sweat this, BOTH OS' have talented programmers working on this stuff.
    Mark could use some more video cards, but he's still updating everything and moving forward.

    If you think we can get some support with video card donations, I think I can put a list together of the cards needed.

    BTW, we will eventually have 3D drivers for cards the OS4 community doesn't.

    Plus, those new cards you are worrying about?
    I'm sure Mark will get to them.

    Mark's just giving us full support, an evolution from our current cards right up to those cards.

    [ Edited by Jim 18.04.2018 - 18:41 ]
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »18.04.18 - 23:37
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9610 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Mark [...] still managed to [...] add support for all video cards/gpus
    > up to those that are GCN based.

    Not quite. TeraScale3 (Cayman, Antilles), the last pre-GCN architecture, is apparently not supported. I wonder if he will add support for it (as you insinuated half a year ago), or skip it and go directly from currently supported TeraScale2 to GCN1.
  • »19.04.18 - 10:22
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4449 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > Mark [...] still managed to [...] add support for all video cards/gpus
    > up to those that are GCN based.

    Not quite. TeraScale3 (Cayman, Antilles), the last pre-GCN architecture, is apparently not supported. I wonder if he will add support for it (as you insinuated half a year ago), or skip it and go directly from currently supported TeraScale2 to GCN1.


    No, I don't expect the 69XX cards to be supported.
    I've used one and it was a big disappointment when compared to the 78XX, only a little better than the 6870 it replaced, and larger (rather massive actually, like an HD5850), with a higher power draw.

    I sold mine, I suppose I should have sent it to Mark, but I didn't.

    Those two gpus were short term solutions for high end cards until GCN gpus were ready.
    Terascale3 support? If Mark wants it, who knows, but the T3 based cards aren't good solutions for us.

    I can't remember, but Mark might have mentioned having one or having access to one.

    I moved from the HD6870, to the HD7850 for the next higher end card (I also sent Mark an R7 260X GCN Gen2 card, but that doesn't perform as nearly well as the 78xxs).

    Sorry I never posted anything about it.

    Mark's primary focus has been practicality, price and what is appropriate for the OS.
    You've seen his current PCIe recommendation, the HD6450 (or its latter, relabeled variants).

    And the focus on the R600 and R700 cards might have been the possibility of including the AGP models in the support list for our older systems. The R800 was apparently fairly a fairly easy move.

    I'm not sure how ANYTHING above that works under MorphOS, because I haven't tried it. For my X64 use, the HD5850 worked well (Windows no longer properly supports the R700), the HD6870 worked better, and the HD7850 was a mixed bag (depending on what version of DirectX the software you were running required, earlier software works BETTER on an HD6870).

    BTW - I haven't sent the R5 240 I have for him yet either. I want to see if I can wrangle an RX560 to ship with the next package (along with the X5000 cpu cooler Aaron helped provide to cool Mark's pre-production system as it has a weaker cooler than the production boards).

    In any case, the first GCN cards you are likely to see support for aren't nearly as powerful as the HD7850, probably something like the HD7750 or the R5/7 240.

    So no, I don't want him to focus on those last two Terascale revisions, but then that is his choice, so ask him.
    Mark and I send a small packets of email at each other with months spaced in between.
    Part of why I try to avoid broad statements about what he's going to release is he always surprises me.
    And it not my place to announce anything. To clarify, anything I say is purely speculative.

    Although once 3.10 was released, Mark did tell me he thought he would be able to release HD3850 AGP support soon, before he posted it here. Then again, he didn't promise it to any of us.

    Hey, at this point GCN cards themselves are just a goal. Might not happen, the World could end tomorrow (or maybe the day our President meets the leader of North Korea - after all, they're are both seriously crazy).
    And if what I learned about probability is correct, you can't prove that anything will happen, you can just estimate a degree of certainty.

    Look, there are limited number of SAM460 and X5000 users that can benefit from R600 (and up) PCIe right now.
    Mostly OS4 users.
    I'd value the R600 AGP support more, for the majority of US.

    The only real value in having GCN support is those are the cards that are usually supplied with X5000 systems and the low end cards have now transitioned to these gpus.

    And really...high end cards don't scale well with our limited cpu power.

    Oh, and as a useless closing point, you know I actually miss memory mapped video RAM. All the requirements of driving these accelerated gpus still baffle me. ;-)

    [ Edited by Jim 19.04.2018 - 08:47 ]
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »19.04.18 - 13:41
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4449 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Thanks for the reference. One of the points mentioned has been brought up before, the lack of documentation.
    And it's got to be an added complication that these 2D functions have to be implemented with 3D gpu operations.

    Video driver creation under OS4 is moving right along.
    Being able to devote full time to it has to help.

    But still, since our developers already have full time jobs, I still think donations of hardware and bounties make more sense for us.

    Then again, paying Mark has worked in the past...
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »19.04.18 - 15:08
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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Spectre660
    Posts: 135 from 2015/6/30
    Spinning of Radeon drivers for later model cards as separate development could be an option.
    Thus not being tied to the main MorphOS release cycle.
  • »19.04.18 - 15:20
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9610 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > there are limited number of SAM460 and X5000 users that can benefit
    > from R600 (and up) PCIe right now. Mostly OS4 users.

    It's certainly a dubious benefit for them if they have to go back to 2D-only support under OS4.

    > The only real value in having GCN support is those are the cards that
    > are usually supplied with X5000 systems and the low end cards have now
    > transitioned to these gpus.

    Availability can be a factor as well. The last cards with TeraScale2 GPUs are R5 210...235 from 2013/2014, while last cards with GCN1 GPUs are R5/R7 430...450 from 2016.
  • »19.04.18 - 15:37
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    koszer
    Posts: 726 from 2004/2/8
    From: Poland
    Quote:

    Spectre660 wrote:
    Spinning of Radeon drivers for later model cards as separate development could be an option.
    Thus not being tied to the main MorphOS release cycle.



    And who would spin that?
  • »19.04.18 - 16:43
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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Spectre660
    Posts: 135 from 2015/6/30
    Wonder how many X5000 MorphOS full time or part time users exist ?
    Poll time ?
  • »19.04.18 - 18:00
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4449 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > there are limited number of SAM460 and X5000 users that can benefit
    > from R600 (and up) PCIe right now. Mostly OS4 users.

    It's certainly a dubious benefit for them if they have to go back to 2D-only support under OS4.

    > The only real value in having GCN support is those are the cards that
    > are usually supplied with X5000 systems and the low end cards have now
    > transitioned to these gpus.

    Availability can be a factor as well. The last cards with TeraScale2 GPUs are R5 210...235 from 2013/2014, while last cards with GCN1 GPUs are R5/R7 430...450 from 2016.


    I can still find plenty of those here, 6450's, 8490's, R5's, R7's, BUT I don't really want to use them.
    From a practical standpoint an HD7650 would do much better (or an HD6670 or HD6750).
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »19.04.18 - 18:39
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4449 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > there are limited number of SAM460 and X5000 users that can benefit
    > from R600 (and up) PCIe right now. Mostly OS4 users.

    It's certainly a dubious benefit for them if they have to go back to 2D-only support under OS4.

    > The only real value in having GCN support is those are the cards that
    > are usually supplied with X5000 systems and the low end cards have now
    > transitioned to these gpus.

    Availability can be a factor as well. The last cards with TeraScale2 GPUs are R5 210...235 from 2013/2014, while last cards with GCN1 GPUs are R5/R7 430...450 from 2016.


    I can still find plenty of those here, 6450's, 8490's, R5's, R7's, BUT I don't really want to use them.
    From a practical standpoint an HD7650 would do much better (or an HD6670 or HD6750).


    Quote:

    Spectre660 wrote:
    Wonder how many X5000 MorphOS full time or part time users exist ?
    Poll time ?



    Outside of Wiktor Glowacki (Pampers) and Acil, I only know of two other MorphOS users that have them (and one of those is Bigfoot).

    I initially intended to buy one, but since I have three other MorphOS systems I can afford to wait to see if the X5000/40 makes it to market.

    If not, I'll try to snag one through Aaron before the X5000/20 disappears.

    And a new driver interfaces? Mark and I discussed an improved OpenGL implementation or something like the Vulkan API, but he thinks he'd needs the help of someone like Michał Wozniak's for something that demanding.
    And he didn't seem too impressed with OpenGL ES, but there are a few alternatives.

    In any case, at some point a better way to address the Radeon cards is needed. We don't have support for multiple displays or the simultaneous use of more than one Radeon card.

    GCN might be a good point to draw a line.

    [ Edited by Jim 19.04.2018 - 13:55 ]
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »19.04.18 - 18:53
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9610 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    >> The last cards with TeraScale2 GPUs are R5 210...235 from 2013/2014

    > I can still find plenty of those here, 6450's, 8490's, R5's, R7's

    TeraScale2-based R7? Is there any?
  • »19.04.18 - 20:41
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9610 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    >> how many X5000 MorphOS [...] users exist ?

    > Wiktor Glowacki (Pampers)

    I don‘t think he has really used MorphOS on the X5000 for the last year (or on any other machine for that matter).
  • »19.04.18 - 20:55
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  • esc
  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    esc
    Posts: 101 from 2013/5/28
    The day I can use MorphOS on my X5000 with the Radeon 7750 is the day I purchase a license.

    Why would I get a specific GPU to run MorphOS? That would severely limit what I can do in OS4, which is really the primary reason people buy X5000s. I mean, to put it another way, and again I'm not trying to be flippant here, but I'd be much more inclined to leave my X5000 as is and purchase a mac mini g4 for MorphOS. People aren't going to sacrifice OS4 optimized configuration to run MorphOS, which is a sad truth, but it is a truth.
  • »20.04.18 - 06:51
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4449 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    esc wrote:
    The day I can use MorphOS on my X5000 with the Radeon 7750 is the day I purchase a license.

    Why would I get a specific GPU to run MorphOS? That would severely limit what I can do in OS4, which is really the primary reason people buy X5000s. I mean, to put it another way, and again I'm not trying to be flippant here, but I'd be much more inclined to leave my X5000 as is and purchase a mac mini g4 for MorphOS. People aren't going to sacrifice OS4 optimized configuration to run MorphOS, which is a sad truth, but it is a truth.


    I don't take your comment as flippant.
    I haven't purchased an X5000 because I can't justify it without enhanced support from MorphOS, myself.

    And Andreas, yes, some R series cards are Terascale, not most.
    But splitting hairs with you gets boring.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »20.04.18 - 15:48
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 9610 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > I haven't purchased an X5000 because I can't justify it without
    > enhanced support from MorphOS, myself.

    What are you missing from MorphOS support for the X5000?

    >>>> The last cards with TeraScale2 GPUs are R5 210...235 from 2013/2014

    >>> I can still find plenty of those here, 6450's, 8490's, R5's, R7's

    >> TeraScale2-based R7? Is there any?

    > yes, some R series cards are Terascale

    I take this as a 'no' to my question whether there are any TeraScale2-based R7 cards. About TeraScale2-based R5 cards I wrote myself numerous times to you. You even quoted it in your comments #794 and #795.
  • »20.04.18 - 19:44
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