All the time? Oh one more, you won't get 100k views in here :P

Update:

> I just find it interesting that it's the Pagestream author who is developing
> Aladdin 4D 6.0 for DiscreetFX

http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=62262

@connor,
Quote:

Why don't you try LightWave3D v5.2? It is supposed to work quite well on MorphOS, even though it is an old Amiga 68k program. It does not have all the bells and whistles of the current version of LightWave3D for Windows, or MacOSX, but it does have many more features than Aladdin, a user interface that many people love, and some people hate, and tons of books, CD's, available with tutorials and example scenes and objects, plus scene & object files online that can be freely downloaded.

Of course you can't buy it any more and must "find" it somewhere, to be able to install it on to your MorphOS computer, but that might be better than waiting "who knows how long", for a new version of Alladin4D to be finished and available to purchase. It is not even guaranteed that the new version will ever run on MorphOS.

Does anyone have the last Amiga version of Aladdin4D running on any of their MorphOS computers? I tried to install it and get it running but did not get too far. It was a long time ago and I can't remember where I got stuck, or why I couldn't get it running on any of my MorphOS computers, but then I am not very good at figuring out the intricacies of setting up private screen modes for software that tries to open on it's own screen. I still have not figured out how to get my installation of LightWave3D v5.2 working the best it can on my own MorphOS computers, as well as my X1000 running OS4.1.5, but Mike Brantley has offered to help me adjust things to get it working as well as his set up, which appears to work quite well.

[ Edited by amigadave 01.08.2012 - 10:55 ]

well, i have tried the LightWave 5.2, and when You set it up correctly (including ModePro), it works great, only few things doesn't work, and You have to avoid using them to avoid a system crash, but it has no effect on render quality. Very nice piece of software, any way to legalise it?

bye, MarK.


[ Edited by MarK 02.08.2012 - 09:26 ]

I have always preferred 'Imagine 3D PPC/68k' for all my rendering needs on Amiga platforms. Unfortunately MorphOS still has a few compatibility issues with this software that makes it unusable.

For instance try this:
1. create a new project
2. head into the action editor
3. try clicking on any of the actor,pos,align,size bars

The info window comes up with the gadgets misplaced into the upper left corner of the screen. There is no way to interact with the user interface from that point on even though the software does not actually lock up.

Imagine is 90% working perfectly except for that main annoying issue with certain info windows. I was working on something of a workaround for this problem but haven't had time to finish it as of yet. (I have to write a whole new action editor replacement since I have no idea how to hack/patch this problem in another way)

Lightwave 3D has been my alternative in the mean time but I would really like to see Imagine fully working again. Blender, Cinema4D and Aladdin4D haven't really worked too well for me for various reasons. Real3D is a pretty powerful piece fo software but takes a lot of time and effort to achieve good results.

It is not MOS that has compatibility issues but the user software. MOS cannot and should not become a WinUAE for PPC. If Lightwave and others do not work properly then this is sad because there are no alternatives that are still developeed. Of course you cannot wait for updates as Imagine, Lightwave, Real3D, Cinema4D are not developed anymore. Blender is nice and complex but quite slow because of Python and bugs can only be found during runtime which lead to the program stop working. Aladdin4D is just vaporware. But all in all not MOS should be modified to make all these weird software run but efforts should be made to attract devs to use system standards and release new versions or fixes at least. I always hated the crude UIs of Real3D and such. But there once was Tornado3D. It used MUI. Did someone ever try it on MOS? It was expensive, too, but maybe it is an alternative and can be found somewhere. Or can the authors even be motivated for an update?

> Aladdin4D is just vaporware.

I think it's obvious that this program exists up to version 5.0.

> efforts should be made to attract devs to use system standards
> and release new versions or fixes at least.

Such efforts are usually moribund as the devs of those old programs have abandoned programming for AmigaOS a long time ago and we lack the means to bring them back.

> there once was Tornado3D. [...] Did someone ever try it on MOS?

http://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=375476

It was acquired 5 years ago and since then promised to bring new Amiga and MorphOS versions. Besides promising this again and again, making fun of potential buyers and baiting buyers with a Mac screenshot and a Mac video nothing ever materialized. It is the same as with PageStream, Pixel32, Papyrus ... beyond some teasers and ugly buggy and expired demo versions they are all just unkept promises. Thisi s why I call it vapourware.

I bet Tornado3D would be the best candidate for MOS as it already uses MUI but the authors seem to have left. Eyelight was an Italian company, right? Maybe someone knows the authors to contact them? Otherwise maybe someone else could program a patch or wrapper for this potgo.resource. It seems to be complete for AROS since 2008 http://aros.sourceforge.net/pl/introduction/status/potgo.php so maybe this can be used to fake a hardware Amiga. Nevertheless I would need to find a package of Tornado3D to buy somewhere.

>>> Aladdin4D is just vaporware.

>> I think it's obvious that this program exists up to version 5.0.

> It was [...] promised to bring new Amiga and MorphOS versions. Besides
> promising this again and again, making fun of potential buyers and baiting
> buyers with a Mac screenshot and a Mac video nothing ever materialized.
> [...] Thisi s why I call it vapourware.

I still don't understand how the vapourwareness of "new Amiga and MorphOS versions" of Aladdin4D (i.e. v6.0+) can make Aladdin4D in general (i.e. including versions through v5.0) vapourware.

> Eyelight was an Italian company, right?

Right.

http://web.archive.org/web/20020603175959/http://eyelight-it.com/contact.html

> potgo.resource [...] seems to be complete for AROS since 2008
> http://aros.sourceforge.net/pl/introduction/status/potgo.php

I read there "0%". See also http://aros.sourceforge.net/introduction/status/resources.php .

Zero is true. Read the wrong bar and thought it was done already. Could potgo.resource be taken from UAE? Do they have it?

connor wrote:,
Quote:

NewTek made the jump from Amiga 680x0 to PPC somewhere between versions 5.x and 7.x, or 8.x, so maybe the best 3D program for MorphOS3.1 would be to try to get NewTek to allow 3rd party developers do a port of LightWave3D PPC to MorphOS3.1?

At least NewTek still remembers and will return emails from Amiga users. They might even still be providing support for their old Video Toaster & Flyer Zorro cards? I know they were up to a few years ago.

The PPC version of LightWave3D for Mac computers might be the easiest and best 3D program to port to MorphOS3.1. It has a well known interface, that some think is the most user friendly and easy to use. Another benefit to porting the PPC version of LightWave3D for MacOS, is that many MorphOS3.1 users already have experience using the Amiga version of LightWave3D, so they know how to use it and don't have to learn another 3D interface, like Blender, which can be daunting, specially for new 3D artists.

I know this is probably not a feasible option and NewTek may not allow, or be interested in having their PPC version of LightWave3D ported to a platform that has maybe only 500 to 700 users, and even if the port could also include OS4.x users, that would only add another 500 to 700 users, which is not enough for NewTek to become interested in spending any of their money, or resources on such a project. Only if it did not cost NewTek anything, and if it could give them the possibility of a few new LightWave3D users, who might then buy their latest product for their Windows, or MacOSX computers, then maybe they would consider allowing some 3rd party programmers to do the port to MorphOS3.1 and/or OS4.1.5.

Not likely, but just an idea, if any programmer wants to contact NewTek and ask if it would be possible.

Edit: Maybe a port is not necessary if a PPC emulator of MacOSX can run on MorphOS3.1. Then we just launch LightWave3D for MacOSX from the emulator.

[ Edited by amigadave 14.08.2012 - 12:00 ]

> Could potgo.resource be taken from UAE? Do they have it?

I doubt there is such thing in UAE as it isn't needed there. UAE emulates a complete hardware Amiga after all, so that within the emulation the original potgo.resource simply works.

> maybe the best 3D program for MorphOS3.1 would be to try to get NewTek to
> allow 3rd party developers do a port of LightWave3D PPC to MorphOS3.1? [...]
> The PPC version of LightWave3D for Mac computers might be the easiest and
> best 3D program to port to MorphOS3.1.

Unless LightWave 3D for MacOS/PPC has been written in PPC ASM it wouldn't be substantially (if at all) easier than attempting to port any x86 version to MorphOS.

> Maybe a port is not necessary if a PPC emulator of MacOSX can run on
> MorphOS3.1. Then we just launch LightWave3D for MacOSX from the emulator.

MorphOS runs on PPC, so a PPC emulator wouldn't be necessary obviously. Quite to the contrary, it would make it crawl. What would be needed for MorphOS is a virtualization software (not an emulator, so doesn't emulate the CPU) that can run MacOS/PPC, just like Mac-on-Linux/Mac-on-Mac or SheepShaver do on Linux/PPC and MacOSX/PPC.

Andreas_Wolf wrote:,
Quote:

It is entirely possibly that parts of LightWave3D for MacOS/PPC ARE written in PPC Assembler Language, as it is a program that needs lots of CPU performance to work well and writing parts of it in Assembler Language would probably increase it's speed (although some will argue that modern compilers of other programming languages can do just as good as a person writing PPC Assembler Language), but only NewTek would know if any parts of LightWave3D are written in Assembler Language.

Quote:

Don't separate my statement of "PPC emulator" from the words that follow it, as that changes the meaning of what I wrote. "PPC emulator of MacOSX" is a very different thing than just "PPC emulator". It should be understood that a "PPC emulator of MacOSX" equals an emulator of MacOSX that runs on PPC. I could have written it more clearly if I just wrote SheepShaver for MorphOS3.1, but I did not think my meaning would be misunderstood.

So, what I was trying to write, was that it would probably be easier to complete a port of SheepShaver to run on MorphOS3.1, than it would be to complete a port of LightWave3D PPC to MorphOS3.1, but only a real programmer would know if that assumption is true or not.

Sorry if I confused you about the meaning of my posting. I know that the use of the words "of", or "for", or other parts of the English language can be confusing to some people who's native language is not English, but your English skills are very good, so I am surprised you did not figure out my meaning, even though I could have written it more clearly.

[ Edited by amigadave 15.08.2012 - 12:28 ]

> It is entirely possibly that parts of LightWave3D for MacOS/PPC ARE written in
> PPC Assembler Language, as it is a program that needs lots of CPU performance
> to work well and writing parts of it in Assembler Language would probably increase
> it's speed

True. If that's the case, then a MacOS/PPC version would be better portable to MorphOS than any x86 version with those same parts written in x86 ASM instead. That said, I assume those parts represent only a tiny fraction (if any) of the entire source code, so the real world difference in difficulty of porting the MacOS/PPC version versus porting any x86 version, with quantitatively the by far biggest part of the source code of either version in high level language (for easier maintainability and better compatibility between the versions for different CPUs), shouldn't be that big.

> It should be understood that a "PPC emulator of MacOSX" equals an emulator of
> MacOSX that runs on PPC.

Okay, I see now that you meant a [PPC [emulator of MacOSX]] rather than a [[PPC emulator] [of MacOSX]]. Sorry for misreading that. The reason I didn't get your meaning is that I know very well what a "PPC emulator" (= emulator of PPC) is, but wouldn't even know what an "emulator of MacOSX" is because as far as I understood your idea the genuine MacOSX from Apple is supposed to be running there instead of something that pretends to be (= emulates) MacOSX.

> I could have written it more clearly if I just wrote SheepShaver for MorphOS3.1

Yes, this would have been more clear to me as SheepShaver is not an "emulator of MacOS" in my book but a virtualization software that creates a virtual Mac hardware (sans CPU emulation) on Linux/PPC or MacOSX/PPC. Such virtualization software can usually even be used to run other operating systems like Linux (don't know if SheepShaver can, though).

> but I did not think my meaning would be misunderstood.

Sorry again that I did.

> it would probably be easier to complete a port of SheepShaver to run on
> MorphOS3.1, than it would be to complete a port of LightWave3D PPC
> to MorphOS3.1

Normally I'd agree, but there seems to be a problem with virtualizations that would transparently use the CPU on MorphOS:

https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=5230&forum=9&start=17
https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=6485&forum=9
https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=1903&forum=16&start=6

There's also iFusion for OS3/WarpOS but unfortunately that doesn't work on MorphOS either:

https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=1289&forum=9&start=16
https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=900&forum=9&start=13

> I am surprised you did not figure out my meaning

I hope to have made the cause for my misunderstanding and my reasoning transparent to you.

> Aladdin 4D 6.0 will work native on the platforms listed below.
> Mac OS X
> iPad
> Amiga OS 4.x
> MorphOS 2.5
> Linux
> AROS
> [...]
> http://www.discreetfx.com/Aladdin4D.html

...has shrunk to:

"Aladdin 4D 6.0 will work native on the platforms listed below.
OS X Lion
iPad"

Also:

"Aladdin 4D 6.0 will be available for OS X and iPad only"
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=708368

Seems Linux has been added again:

"To help expedite the release of Aladdin 4D 6.0 we are limiting the platforms it supports. We know this will come as bad news to many of its fans on the Amiga but the long release cycle is doing no one any favors. For version 6.0 Aladdin 4D will only be shipping on Mac OS X, iPad and Linux."
http://aladdin4d.blogspot.com/2012/09/to-help-expedite-release-of-aladdin-4d-6.html

[ Edited by Andreas_Wolf 20.10.2012 - 11:22 ]

Can't say I am too surprised. And I wouldn't buy it unless a 3d-mouse support is also there. Modelling with normal mouse and keyboard is long gone option. Cinema 4D still keeps going strong btw.

@Andreas_Wolf,

As someone who purchased iFusion PPC from Jim Drew long ago, I don't think it ever worked even on AmigaOS3.x, in any way that was really usable and productive.

Maybe other people got more use out of it than I did.

> As someone who purchased iFusion PPC from Jim Drew long ago,
> I don't think it ever worked even on AmigaOS3.x, in any way that was
> really usable and productive.

Yes, while I never used it myself I'm aware that iFusion left much to be desired, especially compared to the expectations caused by the announcements. I remember that a German Amiga dealer, who was the exclusive German iFusion distributor (but ceased operation in 2007), sold off the software for 9 EUR per copy in 2002/2003, which was probably way below the dealer's own cost.

Btw, interesting comment by the original iFusion author:
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=697799

Edit: Another interesting comment insinuating the illegal use of MacOnLinux and SheepShaver source code:
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=37471&forum=2#703327
...and the author's response:
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=37471&forum=2#703637

[ Edited by Andreas_Wolf 08.04.2013 - 02:09 ]

Update from DiscreetFX:

"here is a little friendly warning against hiring developer Deron Kazmaier to do any development work. After being paid in full to complete the development of Aladdin 4D 6.0 almost two years ago this developer either keeps stringing me along or ignores e-mails altogether. Regrettably Legal action is now being taken. [...] Legal measures will now right this wrong. [...] He harmed Aladdin4D development and all of it's customer base. [...] Development funds could have went to a sincere developer truly interested in Amiga/MorphOS/AROS software development instead of a thief that just wants to play games."
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=733953 (emphasis mine)

"Deron willfully accepted money to complete a project and is willfully choosing to not complete it or explain reasons for a two year delay. The far reaching legal consequences of this will be a result of his own actions or lack thereof. I tried resolving this the normal way but Deron chooses to just ignore it."
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=734017 (emphasis mine)

Wow!

>"here is a little friendly warning against hiring developer Deron Kazmaier..."

Paid up front and no reward after two years.
Ted got screwed.

> Ted got screwed.

Pyromania is Bill, not Tedd ;-)

Sorry, thought it was the same company.
Anyone wonder why there is no commercial software for our community?

Sorry, thought it was the same company.
Anyone wonder why there is no commercial software for our community?

no wonder.