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Really? What would we use Java for? Imagine, this proposal, if ever satisfied, is about a huge effort, that would take years. Enough time for MorphOS to take over the world or dissapear completely .
Seriously, if we had Java, what would we do with it?

Something more than configuring the transparency of your windows? :)

Morphos could be used as a web server. You can write good GUI applications with Java. You could run a lot of existing java software (like FreeCol :) ). You could use Morphos for Java development. Lot's of other options too. It's not going to save Morphos alone, but I think it's one of those things that any good OS should have these days.

I don't think Java or .NET are popular by accident.

@Kaczus

With a Computing Licenciature degree (5 years at least) and 5 years of working experience you could earn around 2000?/month without taxes and without special bonuses in christmas/summer (that would left ~1550? per month and at the end of the year you would have to pay around 800? to the goverment) if you work in Madrid (the capital city) and Barcelona (the second biggest city).

If you work in other parts of Spain you'll end up with wages of 720?/month or something like that after working for free for companies for one year. And you won't raise that much until you have spent at least 5 years working. Don't expect to earn more than 18000?/year (taxes not discounted yet) even if you have 5 years of experience.

Working as computer engineer sucks here in spain unless you work in Madrid or Barcelona. There's a lot of intrusism from other engineers and that causes that code quality in production environments is crap.

E.g: HP/Accenture/DMR/CapGemini/Atos Origin/... hires engineers in Physics, Chemistry, Telecommunications, Philosophists, Mathemathics... that haven't written a damn line of code in their whole life and don't have passion for computing. The result is that they don't have a clue and that bosses that act as analysts even though they haven done any UML diagram in their whole life force workers to spend their life in the office. The productivity gets lower, there's no analys phase, there's no docs, everything is done quick'n'dirty.

And people who knows about computing gets burnt.

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In Finland if you were unemployed you could get that 720e/month.

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For me, if I could work full time on such project. But I can not due to my job.

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For professional sw developer it would be normal. For a student who cannot work full time 1600e is "normal".

Then maybe it is time to looking for a Spanish programmer, not Polish.

The original post says eastern/southern Europe. Poland was just an example :)

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I don't see anything wrong with paying someone an amount they will accept. So why are you specifying location ?

If it's an economical issue then there is no need to mention countries.

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Is it impertinent to ask how one will verify this ? Presumably this means you have the funds to pay at least one man year of salary plus the time to manage the project. I'm thinking that whoever is interested in accepting your offer will want to know that you have the ability to pay them after they start working...

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I agree that Java on MorphOS is desirable, but your motivation is not convincing. Can we not write good GUI applications using C and MUI ? What has Java got to do with running a webserver ?

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Java Server Pages

What's wrong with Apache ?

Ppl, are you crazy? Instead of helping bendahmon about the task, you gone mad about him asking for eastern-europe programers? Does it matter 30++ messages or the actual wish to make Java on MOS?

And now, someone teaches bendahmon that it is waste of money. Man, it is HIS MONEY, not yours. If he wants java and is willing to pay, either spread the word or be quiet.

Bendahmon, go for it. My advice would be to put ie 10.000 euros for first team that makes it. Some of it might be put in advance, so coders would get motivation.

Pls, let ben lead the topic, and stay on topic.

@Kaczus

Unfortunately I don't know any coder who would have the required knowledge and skills about Java/AmigaOS to do the job.


@Itix
Maybe I should move to Finland... Should I learn Suomi firstly or English would be enough to start?

@srbin

If people don't ask "difficult" questions and get "good" answers then this project will definitely fail.

To be clear: I want Java!

I sent you a PM. Please check your inbox.

About the "fairness" of the salary:

At least I would seriously consider worse paid job that I like, rather than having to do something I don't like - I currently work full-time as Linux programmer, there definitely are lots of worse but perhaps better paid programming-related jobs available.

Also I assume that the work would be done "from home", also that must be worth something (and as with previous one, justify somewhat smaller salary)

And fair or not - no-one is forced to accept this offer!

Another way of doing this might be getting an interested developer do some approximations about amount of work needed for various milestones (working hello, world, something graphical successfully drawn etc.) and put bounties on those - maybe in addition to basic (low) salary.

I guess the best way to do it would be to get one interested developer / group working on it rather than (potentially) having many people working on separate implementations of same thing, competiting againist each other for "who makes it first and gets the bounty", afraid to share any progress with others, as that could be used to "steal" the bounty.

There's nothing wrong with mentioning countries. I can choose any country I feel like. I wasn't going to waste time on appealing to people from Northern European countries because they generally have higher expectations when it comes to salaries. My last words on that!

If someone would be interested we'd discuss things further. I'm not "verifying" anything on a public forum.

You can of course write good GUI applications using C and MUI. But how many people do that these days? The 0,001% of the developers in the world. Besides, it generally takes more time to develop.

Nothing wrong with Apache. Besides that it's not as popular as it used to be. It's all Java and .NET in Norway. If you want to live in the past that's fine. Many people don't.

@bendahmon

I didn't ask you to verify anything. I asked you how you would verify you have the money. It's a simple question. If you're offering a job, isn't it quite an important thing ?

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I would guess about 100% of MorphOS programmers, because that is the only choice.

I'm happy for you to invest your money in Java. My observation, based on your posts, is that I don't think it will get you what you want.

A Java program won't run as fast as a native program for obvious reasons. You may have noticed we're not exactly overwhelmed with high power hardware at the moment; we've only got PPC Amigas, Pegasos and eventually EFIKA. Clock cycles aren't being wasted.

If you want more GUI programs maybe you should invest in a native implementation of GTK ? However, this is going off course, IIRC MorphOS team did say at one time words to the effect that "MorphOS without MUI was unthinkable". You could have a Java-MUI interface but then you've lost your whole cross platform advantage.

I guess Java would attract more people to develop for the platform, but they would not necessarily actually use Java.

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If you consider IIS gaining a few percentage more users over the last few years then perhaps Apache is less popular but I don't see anywhere near as many Java webservers.

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Oh I see, you're putting 2 different topics in the same paragraph. Didn't I say I want Java ?

Ben is absolutely right. MorphOS NEEDS Java if it's ever to be taken seriously in the world. Back in the day, the fact that intent had a Java engine was the ONLY thing that potential partners cared about. No one gave a crap about the VP that Fleecy was all hyped on, even tho it was kind of cool.

My point is that even in 2001, Java was already a big deal, and getting bigger. It hasn't gotten smaller since then. Java and a modern web browser are the two things which allow a modern OS to be useful and survive.

If I had the money, I'd put up a big bounty for firewire drivers so MorphOS could talk to any camcorder made in the last ten years or so, but sadly I don't. I say, if this gentleman wants to spend the money to advance MorphOS, then more power to him! Getting programmers from places where the salary isn't three grand a month per programmer, is certainly not new in Amiga land or any other place, for that matter. Microsoft brings these guys over by the planeload from India. Don't bag on the guy for trying to get it done within his means!

Ben, thanks for advancing this offer into the MorphOS community. Maybe you could get in touch with these guys..

http://www.ringlord.com/people/walrus/amiga/java.html

It looks like they've been working on this for some time, I don't know how MorphOS friendly they are, maybe they just need a machine? I could provide one if that is what's holding them back.

Good Luck!

About a week or two, before Ben posted this about Java for MorphOS, I was thinking about writing a JavaVM myself. One of the coolest things with Java is it's Eclipse IDE and its huge amount of existing software. But unfortunately, writing the JavaVM is not the most important thing -- there were ports of JavaVMs to the Amiga in the past, such as Kaffee or jikes. The real problem are the native libraries to be used for the runtime environment, which is a huge task.

Currently, I hate huge projects. I've been writing at the USB stack for more than five years now and I don't want to see it anymore. It's just a never ending story. I've got the impression that this would be the same for a JavaVM with JDK. And moreover: No way I could work on this contiuously -- I'm a full time software architect and java/C++ programmer... not speaking about the salary...

(And speaking of MUI -- AFAIK there is no match of the coolness of MUI anywhere in the Java world. All these GUI Toolkits suck big time -- at least programming-wise).

(And about that stupid "you're being racist!" arguments -- grow up people, this is the economic reality. Development e.g. in Germany *is* more expensive based on hourly rates, but then again, developing in India might not give you what you expected at all).

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Without Finnish you can not get far ;)

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Holy crap! How much does a coffee cost in Finland? In Spain it's about 1.2 euro (and raising). Seriously, in Spain, the general rule is that you can't afford living with the payrolls nowadays. An small apartment is about 200000 euros, that's a thousand euro per month loan, and most people earn less than that.

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A coffee cup costs about about same here, 1 - 1.5 euro depending on a flavour and place.

Apartments probably cost the same (or more) if you are living in a Helsinki. Here in my city you can get 50-75m^2 new apartment from the city center at 120k - 150k euro.

Hi !

good news ?

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Tomorrow, we'll all be making a delivery to Ebola 9, the virus planet?


- CISC

LOL someone had to much easter egs

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So are you planning to fund the bounty/port all by yourself?