http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=18978&forum=32&start=0&viewmode=flat&order=0


From SpotUP member:


E-UAE GUI

euae15.jpg




From CygnusED member who ported GTK/X-11:


DILLO Browser:

dillo-snapshot-sm.jpg


wxWidgets:

wxWidget-snapshot-sm.jpg


Amaya Browser (as he posted into another thread):

Snapshot10sm.jpg

Well, well, well, I hope that soon GTK-MUI for MorphOS will match AOS4.0 advancements.

Eh? The E-UAE gui screenshot was relevant (though abit old news), but wtf is up with the X11 screenshots? Got nothing to do with GTK-MUI, and afaict from the thread are just some screenshots of X11 through a 68k X11 server (which has been available for AmigaOS for, what, more than 10 years now? (you know what an X11 server is and does, right?))...

Quote:

Uhm, GTK-MUI should be identical for both platforms, so I'd guess the "advancement" would be the same? Incidentally, you noticed the screenshot was from AROS, right?


- CISC

About GTK-MUI, it compiles for aros/mos/os4, but there are no real useful ported applications for now, only test cases. UAE GUI could be useful indeed.

What you see on other snapshots is something that can be done for more than 10 years on amigaos : running a X11 server (ixemul one for instance) and running X11 clients (most, including gtk and this browser just need libx11 to be compiled). Check libx11 release date on aminet, for fun.

But i agree up-to-date X11 servers and libx11 could be something handy, even if it feels a bit alien.

> But i agree up-to-date X11 servers and libx11 could be something handy, even if it feels a bit alien.

While we are at it, why is there a X-Server Bounty, but you cant (yet?) donate?

Running Mozilla in MOS may be useful, wouldn't it?

Even if it's running in a custom screen with x11 and gtk I think that being able to run mozilla natively would be great

Quote:

Not this way, no, IMO you're better off with VNC or RDP (although they are not quite the same thing)...

Quote:

You're not really running them natively, that's the problem.


- CISC

Quote:

I don't think so. I prefer to do everything on MOS. I don't like having to turn on my pc just for browsing, I prefer to do Amiga+M and change the screen to Mozilla, download a file and save it inside the hard disk of my pegasos instead of having to pass it using FTP.

And there's people who don't own various computers.

Quote:

You wouldn't take advantage of your system but yes, you would be running it on MOS. And you wouldn't have to reboot your pegasos to boot linux or MOL if you just want to see a webpage you can't see with voyager.

And once it's running on MOS (even if it's trough an X11+GTK port) someone more skilled may try to improve GTK<->MUI to make it more native. But until that happens you'll have a decent browser.

I spend less and less time with MOS because it doesn't have a browser that allows me to view most of webpages correctly.

An X11+GTK MOS port would allow some coder to port GAIM and connect to MSN networks being able to transfer files, etc...

Some of you may have various computers at home, but I don't like to have various computers. And if I could get rid of my wintel pc, I would do it gladly. But with the current status of MOS browsers that's difficult.

The first step porting a complex thing like Mozilla may be a native X11/GTK port and later a native MUI port... most of people I know would prefer that.

When you see a grab of Mozilla "running" on AmigaOS or MorphOS through a X server... then it is in fact running on some Unix machine and its display is exported to Amiga/MorphOS.
Look at this screenshots of Netscape "running" on AmigaOS: http://www.aminet.net/package.php?package=pix/illu/AWinNetscape.lha
That was 10 years ago and nothing changed.

So, you still need a second machine and there is no real difference compared to using VNC, from this point of view.


[ Edited by Henes on 2006/5/13 16:56 ]

It never fails.. someone puts a wallpaper saying "AmigaOS 4" on their
linux PC and instantly people are impressed with how well linux apps
run on OS4.

[..X11+GTK MOS port etc..]

But that's not what this thing is! All the gui drawing is done through an X11 server, it's not native, and it's just about as useful as VNC/RDP, except you waste more CPU...

GTK-MUI is a totally separate project, and I have no clue why Raf_MegaByte decided to pollute the "news" about it with this pointless X11 thing which has been around for more than 10 years already .. there's another thing (equally old) that does something similar to GTK-MUI though; libX11, except it goes much lower level (it has to), is pretty darn slow, and last but not least, fairly buggy.


- CISC

The difference here is, the xclients (applications) are running on the os 4 box and NOT on linux.
I agree that the xserver is very alien but it is IMO better
than having to use another computer.

The comparison with vnc would only fit if the xclients where not running on the same machine.

Well, ten years ago, you had xclock, bash, twm, fvwm.. and even some "big" applications like Chimera or The Gimp running native on AmigaOS using X11.
That did not mean monsters like Mozilla were easily portable this way:-)

[ Edited by Henes on 2006/5/13 19:56 ]

Quote:

Ehhh, no, that's exactly how it always worked...

Quote:

I didn't compare it to VNC, I said it was about as useful as VNC/RDP, except you waste more CPU since the app runs semi-locally.

It's a total waste of time IMO, it might have been useful 10 years ago when VNC/RDP wasn't prevaltent/didn't exist, but now it's just a huge waste of resources all round.


- CISC

Quote:

Linux X11 cilents running on same machine as X server: do you call those running semi-locally, too? If yes, what does "semi-locally" mean? If not, what's the difference with AOS X11 clients running on same machine as X server.?

Btw, weren't there plans in MorphOS (by emm?) once upon a time to do a X11 wrapper library?

Hi,

My two cents here.

I see this as a small step forward. An X-Server in MorphOS would be very useful if I also could launch the application in MorphOS (through ixemul perhaps). I find many times all the software possible to run in MUICon window very useful.

However for now I personally go for picking up the Linux or Windows boxes through VNC in MorphOS, as I then also can use these systems at their full potential (while sitting in the MorphOS-desktop), like for printing and other useful things.

A browser that will render more web pages better, would probably be the application that would make MorphOS become a more popular system. Most people (without deeper Amiga knowledge) will mostly often mention that browsing the web seems to work little bit bad when they are trying MorphOS.

Quote:

No, ofcourse not, but that's not what this thing is afaict, it's just the same 10-year old crud.

Quote:

Nothing, except for an even greater waste of resources, another libX11 would be easier, not to mention more efficient.

Quote:

Not that I know of, but many, many years ago I ported libX11, only to rediscover how horribly buggy it was so I didn't bother working any more on it, and sent the lot to someone else who claimed to be interested (guess they weren't after all) .. writing one from scratch might be worth the effort, though I don't see much use in it once GTK-MUI gets in a usable state...


- CISC

Quote:

Well, if you don't had read it well, then I advice you that AfxGroup (i.e. Andrea Palmaté) who is a good coder and author of lot of portings from Linux to AmigaOS, and a hacker who manage at least 20 portings advancements at once, announced he asked for the sources of CygnusED memeber who enhanced old 68K-X11, and now he is working at a PPC Library hich should work on AmigaOS 4.0.

So next big thing it will be a MorphOS version of it.

Andrea also is one of people who are currently porting MUI-GTK to AOS.

I am not sure where I loose you (or you me) :P

Quote:

I dont get what you mean.

Hennes wrote about running the xclients on linux and the xserver on Amiga and I thought this clould lead to the wrong impression that this is also the case for the os4 screenshots.

Quote:

And I dont agree with you on this:

i will try to put it in different words: if I want to have the display on morphos and the program runing on another box I would use vnc or rdp in most cases.


but from a morphos point of view I dont see the main benefit here, but on the possibility to make (dirty) ports easier.

Yes, it wont bring us magicaly mozilla
Yes, I would prefer a MUI Version of a program
Yes, gtk2mui would be better on long sight.
But I dont think working on a up to date X for Amiga/Morphos is a waste of time.

@Cisc

would you be willing to share your work in libX11 with CygnusED and AfxGroup? I guess they could open a sourceforge project so their work benefit MOS too

Quote:

Unfortunately that would be impossible, as I said, this was many, many years ago (before I got a Peg even), the sources are long gone (I even forgot who I gave them to), however nothing stops them from getting the sources themselves and redoing the work, didn't take me long.


@weiseb
Quote:

I think maybe you don't know how all of this works, maybe you should google abit, and/or try out the various 68k X stuff on Aminet...


- CISC

Quote:

Well, these screenshots were not meant as "news", I posted them to #aros and someone asked, if he might post it to aw.net. As I don't care, what someone does with those pics, he can post it, wherever he wants. You will get proper news, when gtk-mui reaches a stable enough level (again) directly from me ;).

Those screenshots were mainly used, to show a few (possible) zune bugs to others, but they were more o1i bugs than zune bugs, and the images show, that the bugs are fixed now. You can find all screenshots at:

http://homes.hallertau.net/~oli/gtk-mui/

But this is no news either ;).

The X11 Client lib is not so unrelated, at least it shows GTK, too. And I tried to compile some smaller X11 apps natively some time ago and realized, that the client libs are very outdated, so I find it good, that someone does new client libs. At least, if he opens up the sources ;).

I also had a look at libx11, which was looked promising at the beginning, but it's more than a mess internally. Whoever wants to use it, might be better off, rewriting it from scratch. But I found the GTK idea more interesting ;), that's why I started it.