Morphos 1.5 Status Update
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Posts: 199 from 2004/2/9
    Yes I really believe it !! But it won't be with MorphOS. Linux is taking an important position in the industrial market and alternative plateform are welcomed, specially if it lower the TCO.
    Were you especting Genesi to survive with Mos only ? Unfortunatly not for now but let's hope it will happen one day in a not so far future .
    As far as I know there are some big project going on using pegasos, linux and other OS. Insdutry, big organisation, embeded system, this is the future of pegasos today.... Well that's what I believe :-D
  • »08.07.04 - 18:11
    Profile
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Posts: 199 from 2004/2/9
    Quote:


    Leo wrote:
    @bbrv: But I guess that doesn't mean you shouldn't satisfy the remaining hundreds of people who have been waiting for months...

    Better 100 more Pegasos users (including some potential developers) than 100 AOne or PC users, no ? ;)

    Leo.


    Leo, They will satisfy any demand as well as the Peg 1 users waiting for the upgrade, it is just taking longer than expected. Hopefully they'll have hundreds in stock shortly.

    In another hand I rather a company having lots od demand and veru few stock that a big stock and no customers :-D
  • »08.07.04 - 18:15
    Profile
  • JKD
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    JKD
    Posts: 456 from 2003/4/4
    From: South of heaven
    Leo,
    well, you have to ask the question either:

    1. whether Genesi overestimated the size of the Amiga 'market' in the first place and have come to the realization that it is not sustainable only recently

    or

    2. They knew this and it was classic 'bait and switch'

    or

    3. Some combination of the above driven by the Thendic financial crisis.

    The market was *known* never to be bigger than a few 1,000 units, so I know it's not 1. 2 is possible but more likely 3 in my opinion.

    MorphOS development continues, whether paid or unpaid in spite of the fact you could argue that people's talents (e.g. Ralph) could best be out towards fixing issues in real markets...

    BBRV - the market can't grow without work, I think you know this and therefore the MorphOS home market is not #1 priority right now. Do not forget that there are people out here, working (or ready to work on their own time) to secure those odd 10s and 100s of sales on your behalf....all we need is a little help, so I go back on topic:

    What is the status of MorphOS 1.5?
    Where is the feature list?
    What is the target release date?
    Where is the product roadmap?

    Thanks for your time,

    Steve :-D
  • »08.07.04 - 19:06
    Profile
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Acill
    Posts: 1915 from 2003/10/19
    From: Port Hueneme, Ca.
    Quote:


    JKD wrote:
    MorphOS development continues, whether paid or unpaid in spite of the fact you could argue that people's talents (e.g. Ralph) could best be out towards fixing issues in real markets...

    BBRV - the market can't grow without work, I think you know this and therefore the MorphOS home market is not #1 priority right now. Do not forget that there are people out here, working (or ready to work on their own time) to secure those odd 10s and 100s of sales on your behalf....all we need is a little help, so I go back on topic:

    What is the status of MorphOS 1.5?
    Where is the feature list?
    What is the target release date?
    Where is the product roadmap?

    Thanks for your time,

    Steve



    Well said, and yes lots of us are "working" for the promotion of MorphOS free of charge. I for one got a sale here in California the same time I got my bord. I love this system and show it off on a regular basis here. I've got old Amiga users or at least those that knew of it wanting one so bad and they are upset over the fact they cant get one now. I've Shown my system to a few friends that are buyers at Best Buy, CompUSA, and Fry's Electronics all of which think they could get them sold if the systems were available. Now this is just friends and word of mouth, but if they are interested after knowing very little of the Amiga and nothing of the Pegasos I would think others if they saw them in a major store like that with the proper support would get one in a second,. That is at least here in the US.

    On a second note I am driving all the way to Sacramento to support Genesi on my dime so we can at least have SOME show of force there. Sure I wanted to go anyway, but being able to get a booth and do the show for Genesi with Steve is an honor for me. I would put any ammount of money up that if I had even as few as ten Peg II boards they would sell in the first hour of the show.

    EDIT:

    @BBRV

    I've told you in the past if you need me to do anything for you and the Pegasos here in the US let me know. Just give me a list of things and I will get them done. FREE of charge. I am that dedicated to the systems future. You have my home email and you can post my a PM here as well. I check it all day all the time.

    [ Edited by Acill on 2004/7/8 13:45 ]
    Powermac Dual 2.0 GHZ G5 PCI-X (Registration #1894)
    Powerbook 1.67GHZ
    Powermac Dual 2.0 GHZ G5 PCIE (Registration #6130)
    A4000T CSPPC, Mediator
    Need Repairs, upgrades or a recap in the USA? Visit my website at http://www.acill.com
  • »08.07.04 - 21:43
    Profile Visit Website
  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Paochi
    Posts: 136 from 2004/3/23
    From: Italy
    Mmm I should add 2 other words to the question (OT) of the topic: "Is the AMiga Market saturated?".
    I can only answer, no.
    300 machines (including also Peg1 to Peg2 waiters) are not 2 machine ... then if it's so easy to cut or lower the priority versus a little community, it's better clarify that it's this little and MOTIVATED little community that gave to Genesi the opportunity to enter in other markets.
    Sure, without any starting point and with only a "PPC board that run LInux", Genesi would not be where it's now. There are outhere DOZENS of examples that confirm this theorema :D
    Anyway, I'm agree that it's impotant to find new and big markets; but this research cannot be a priority on the selling and publicizing of Pegasos in Europe and USA as a new alternative machine for old amiga users.
    I can only repeat:
    it's frustating when you go to an alternative show with AmigaOne resellers (and Pegasos resellers) and watch to 10-20 CRAP AOne sold ... and 0 Pegasos because "We have 0 Pegasos ATM, please wait."
    Excuse my bad english but I was really frustated by the trilogy: "AMigaMarket is small - Pegasos old market is saturated - Pegasos dealers watch happly how well the crap AOne continue to be sold " ...
    "I hope that all my toys are, first of all, funny!" (Jay Miner)
  • »09.07.04 - 08:37
    Profile Visit Website
  • JKD
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    JKD
    Posts: 456 from 2003/4/4
    From: South of heaven
    Paochi...very passionate, thank you!

    <bump> :-D
  • »09.07.04 - 18:05
    Profile
  • Moderator
    hooligan
    Posts: 1948 from 2003/2/23
    From: Lahti, Finland
    I heard it will cost 425798459084320589235789328570947583207958793407589327495708943758904395784237985+45+8 8365357892016587264398732698743275988421366597467436646325843 USD
    www.mikseri.net/hooligan <- Free music
  • »09.07.04 - 18:19
    Profile Visit Website
  • JKD
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    JKD
    Posts: 456 from 2003/4/4
    From: South of heaven
    <bump> Really want BBRV to answer this...
  • »11.07.04 - 06:55
    Profile
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    poundsmack
    Posts: 1346 from 2003/6/8
    From: USA California
    i think we all do....but if there is one thing i have noticed BBRV seems to like the suprise factor :-)
    somehting tells me this case will be no different

    [ Edited by poundsmack on 2004/7/10 23:02 ]
    "Poundsmack, official morphzone thread creator" -LorD
    "Wanna be lord of the avatars." -JKD
  • »11.07.04 - 07:02
    Profile Visit Website
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    bbrv
    Posts: 750 from 2003/2/14
    From: Earth
    Steve, just sent you an email...;-)

    It is one thing to post on a message board, it is entirely another to purchase a Pegasos. There are dedicated users and developers in the MorphOS Community, but there are also alot of people that talk and do nothing. Before we really push MorphOS to the front we need to establish the Pegasos as a viable alternative to an X86 machine in both performance and price. We do not resistricted ourselves to the hardware itself when we position ourselves with an open source OS solution (and we do NOT mean MorphOS) and an open source applications stack too. Can you see the difference with the Novell approach for example? The objective is to introduce and validate a Total System Solution. The kind of volume we need to drive down the price of the Pegasos is in the tens and hundreds of thousands -- not hundreds or even a couple thousand. In the meanwhile, we are gaining major corporate support from the companies that either make components we use to make the Pegasos or companies that need that Total System Solution.

    There are indeed Poundsmack some BIG surprises coming soon! Those presentations will give you an indication of things that are already happening...;-)

    R&B
  • »11.07.04 - 12:10
    Profile Visit Website
  • Just looking around
    micronuke
    Posts: 8 from 2004/3/15
    From: Aachen/Germany
    @BBRV:
    If you ask all the Pegasos dealers how many Pegasos boards are pre-ordered by now.. And then produce that many boards for the Amiga community, where's the problem with that? Of course some people might cancel their order until it's produced, but on the other hand there are others who want to buy but didn't preorder it while it's not available. I understand that you can't sell the volume you need in the Amiga market, but I don't see what you'd loose with producing boards for the Amiga community. It results in more sold boards, meaning more money (even if it's not much, it's better than nothing!), meaning also more MorphOS-users and -developers supporting your platform! For free!


    [ Edited by micronuke on 2004/7/11 13:29 ]
    - micronuke^osa
    Nimm dir Zeit und nicht das Leben!
  • »11.07.04 - 12:25
    Profile Visit Website
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2720 from 2003/2/24
    @ micronuke

    I think it has already been explained that Genesi now are collecting big orders from big companies, like Freescale. This is of strategic importance for the survival and future development of the Pegasos platform, but the problem is that these large companies are demanding 60-90 days in their terms of payments, and since the hardware components suppliers demands up-front payments for the components that the Pegsaos are built of, it adds additional financial preassure to Genesi.

    From what I understand, the dealers in the Amiga market only pays half of the amount in advance, and this is probably not even enough for covering the production costs. So to be able to sell boards to Amiga dealers on those terms, part of the production has to be financed by Genesi, and this won't be possible now for a short, limited period of time, until the money from the bigger orders from the bigger customers starts to roll in. For a short period of time, the focus has to be elsewhere. And BTW, this is not news! It was carefully announced to the public (and the Amiga dealers) *well in advance*, that "after this production run [whenever it was (March, April?)], the following production runs will be dedicated to big customers only". So this should not have been a surprise to anyone really, and the smart dealers stacked up a pile in their warehouses. However, if some dealers would be prepared to pay *the whole amount* up well in advance, I would be surprised if they would have been denied any boards.

    About the "Amiga market" (as an "output" market, where you make your living); it *IS* saturated; the Pegasos was not developed to sell in hundreds or a copule of thousands. This is far from enough for living from. But note that this does *not* mean that no Pegasos boards will be produced for the "Amiga market" anymore (like some people seems to think, despite that the opposite has been explained many times)! The reason to why Genesi has spent so much time and money through visiting/supporting Amiga shows in the past, communicating on Amiga web forums and handing out "Phree boards" to developers, etc, etc, etc, is that this market is of big importance as an "Input" market; a special kind of market that will provide content and other things for the platform that helps increasing the platforms value on the *Output market* (where the *real* money are made), and thus help move the platform forward. Perhaps the results of the phreeboard programmes and the Amiga market in general has been disappointing for Genesi up to now, perhaps they had hoped for more development efforts from developers, I don't know. But chanses are that more and more enthusiasts (old Amiga people and others) will come joining the platform once it starts to grow and make a footprint out in the real world. And wasn't there talks about another Phreeboard programme or such, for this comign fall or so?

    I have a feeling that we will see many interesting developments on the Pegasos platform in a close future (like after the summer or so), when real money starts to flow in to Genesi. There will be new CPU cards, and there will be new machines for anyone interested in purchasing them, including the dealers in the Amiga market. But for the time beeing, for a short period of time, it seems like Genesi has to focus on other things.
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »11.07.04 - 14:39
    Profile
  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Paochi
    Posts: 136 from 2004/3/23
    From: Italy
    Quote:

    From what I understand, the dealers in the Amiga market only pays half of the amount in advance, and this is probably not even enough for covering the production costs.


    Big companies pay NOTHING in advance ... TTGM ... only AMiga dealres are so crazy to prepay partially for something!
    I can assure you that Genesi will see a payment minimum after 60-90 days the trading!
    Simply ask BBRV for thiss.
    The main question I'm explaing is the same one explained by micronuke and all Pegasos dealers: why we have to ignore the people that sold Pegasos during this year to "help" big companies, when the demand of old good motivated old Pegasos dealres need only 300-400 boards (mainly G4) ... that will be also partially prepayed!
    "I hope that all my toys are, first of all, funny!" (Jay Miner)
  • »11.07.04 - 14:51
    Profile Visit Website
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    bbrv
    Posts: 750 from 2003/2/14
    From: Earth
    Thanks TMHG. You explained the situation well. It is actually even more complicated that that, but re-explaining the basic information over and over again seems to be the only way to help everyone understand. :-)

    Paochi, as we have discussed many times we are not ignoring either our initial and loyal users or Pegasos Resellers. It is simply a matter of resources and production efficiencies. For the moment, you may not be able to understand what is happening, but things are and MorphOS will be back soon and better than ever. The Pegasos will even become cheaper once the product begins to be made by bigger manufacturers than us. Hang in there. The calvary is on its way! :-)

    R&B
  • »11.07.04 - 15:33
    Profile Visit Website
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    poundsmack
    Posts: 1346 from 2003/6/8
    From: USA California
    BIG suprises hu?! now your speaking my language :-D
    "Poundsmack, official morphzone thread creator" -LorD
    "Wanna be lord of the avatars." -JKD
  • »11.07.04 - 17:23
    Profile Visit Website
  • Leo
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Leo
    Posts: 417 from 2003/8/18
    Quote:


    The kind of volume we need to drive down the price of the Pegasos is in the tens and hundreds of thousands -- not hundreds or even a couple thousand.


    How can you acheive even the 1/10th of this if you can't satisfy the hundreds of Amiga users waiting for their Pegasos ?

    Leo.
    Nothing hurts a project more than developers not taking the time to let their community know what is going on.
  • »11.07.04 - 18:20
    Profile Visit Website
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2720 from 2003/2/24
    @ Paochi

    Quote:

    why we have to ignore the people that sold Pegasos during this year to "help" big companies, when the demand of old good motivated old Pegasos dealres need only 300-400 boards


    The answer to your "main question" is still the same; it is obviously not possible for Genesi to finance the production of several hundreds of motherboards for Amiga dealers at the same time as they are financing the production of *big* orders for big customers of big strategic importance. Quite obviously, they have to choose; EITHER this OR that. They can't do both, focus is needed. This is only for a short period of time. Genesi announced this already this winter/early spring, and I can't really understand why you seem to be so surprised? Before the latest "public" production run, they clearly told everyone to take this opportunity to stack up all the boards needed for the nearest months, since all the following production runs would be reserved for other purposes. No secrets, no surprises, and it is *certainly not* "ignoring the people that sold Pegasos during this year", and claiming so is a bit rude IMHO. Everyone knew way in advance exactly how the situation would be, and were totally free to act accordingly. If they didn't, they have *no-one but themselves* to blame, and whining about this does not only make you look bad, it is also kind of pointless. More boards will probably be publically available in a not too distant future anyway ...
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »11.07.04 - 19:15
    Profile
  • JKD
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    JKD
    Posts: 456 from 2003/4/4
    From: South of heaven
    The biggest surprise we wait from you...that you actually order a Pegasos ;-)

    Steve
  • »11.07.04 - 19:42
    Profile
  • JKD
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    JKD
    Posts: 456 from 2003/4/4
    From: South of heaven
    Well, it wasn't my question...since I well understand the implications of poor cashflow.

    It seems that MorphOS development continues irrespective of current goals/big customers etc. but I don't think it's fair to expect the people here to keep living on a promise.

    We all bought the beta-level hardware (Peg 1) and in many cases upgraded to the real thing (Peg 2). Whilst I agree the rewards from that exercise are currently small (both fiscally and product wise) I debate the point that it will take much effort to allow a steadier stream of MOS upgrades out to the users.

    Because things are delayed (albeit with good reason) it is surely time to (partially) raise the curtain on the artificial veil of secrecy surrounding MorphOS progress. Tell people what's coming..keep up the spirit and momentum you worked so hard to build in the beginning.

    You planted the seed, we have the shoots growing....please water them :D

    Steve

    PS Sorry if I sound a little frustrated and I hope this isn't taken the wrong way....just an impassioned advocation on behalf of MOS users :-D
  • »11.07.04 - 19:54
    Profile
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Posts: 199 from 2004/2/9
    @ Paochi

    Quote:

    why we have to ignore the people that sold Pegasos during this year to "help" big companies, when the demand of old good motivated old Pegasos dealres need only 300-400 boards

    Paochi, those old good motivated dealers have the same cash flow problems as Genesi. They are supposed to know their market. They new the next public production won't be before few month. So why most of them order less than 10 boards, sometimes even 4 or 5. If they knew the market was so interestinng they should buy a big quantity at the good time. For now Genesi can't keep stock ( stock cost money) and we all know that component price are changing almost everyday.
    Not to blame the dealer but we should all understand the real situation and try all together to create a real future for the platform.

    T
  • »12.07.04 - 13:48
    Profile
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Spidey
    Posts: 568 from 2003/2/24
    From: Netherlands
    Hi bbrv,

    Quote:

    The calvary is on its way!


    As the others out here, I hardly can't wait! :-D

    I'm glad business is going fine and hope the big companies will pay after the normal 3 months after receiving their product!
    (as I work in a production company I know sometimes it doesn't happen :-))

    What would be nice to know is:

    - Why intentionally the slide concerning MorphOS@home was editted :-)

    Ofcourse I've got more serious questions, but I don't think it's my place to ask these questions. I only hope the vision and mission statements you gave us will come out! :-)

    Bye,

    Spidey
  • »12.07.04 - 14:36
    Profile Visit Website
  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    artickfox
    Posts: 101 from 2004/4/17
    I still hope Genesis also will try to give help or support to other "free" OS, like Aros or Haiku, on Pegasos platform.
    Maybe actually these are under development, but Linux have his big boom becouse it whas free and anyone can adapt it on other platform. Maybe these OS will have a good future, so if Peggy still help them can get advertiment and advantage...
    (I'm really interested to see how will work Haiku for example, if it work well maybe will become a good resource for our Pegasos!)
    ************************
    Virtual Paws:
    http://www.furryitalia.net/virtualpaws/index.htm
    Italian furry videogame site

    Furry Italia
    http://www.furryitalia.net/
    Italian Furry Comunity

    - Owner of a Pegasos 2/G3 -
    ************************
  • »12.07.04 - 16:52
    Profile Visit Website
  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    Posts: 81 from 2004/3/20
    From: USA
    Looked at the Haiku site a few days ago, the Pegasos is stale over there. I think the last message on it was a year ago...unless someone else put one up.

    Harry
    Config: Pegasos II G4 1ghz, 1024mb memory,
    Radeon 9200,160gb hd total, Sound Blaster Live!
  • »12.07.04 - 16:55
    Profile
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    bbrv
    Posts: 750 from 2003/2/14
    From: Earth
    One step at a time...the Pegasos goes back for sale online this week.

    We do appreciate all the support. Thank you!

    R&B :-)
  • »12.07.04 - 22:35
    Profile Visit Website