It's a little preview of a new big feature of Calimero: Calimero preview
To test this feature exchange the binary with icon and the pic directory.

Screenshot

Q/A:

Why external tabel editor windows ?
A: Overlay this editors on the doc window is simple, but not usable. MUI did't like this.

Why this poor features ?
A: Many more features comes later. It't only a preview.

Can i install tabels on every page ?
A: Yes. You can install any numbers of tabels on ervery page you have. The number of tabels are not restricted.

Quote:

Looks strange, but as long as it works, it will be useful until a solution to allow onscreen (non-external) table editing can be found. Perhaps one of the more experienced MUI programmers can find the problem, or offer some advice on what might be preventing onscreen editing to work with MUI.

I would be very surprised to find out that there are no other MUI programs that don't already have similar editing capabilities, so maybe you can find other programs that have that feature, and incorporate it into Calimero later.

Keep up the good work, I am looking forward to having a good word processor, or desk top publishing program for MorphOS in the near future.

Edit: Unfortunately, I have never been able to get the newest WIP version of Pagestream PPC to work on any system, MorphOS, or AmigaOS4.

[ Edited by amigadave 06.10.2016 - 13:28 ]

> I would be very surprised to find out that there are no other MUI programs
> that don't already have similar editing capabilities

I for one would be very surprised to find out that there are no other MUI programs that already have similar editing capabilities ;-)

Ok Ok Ok...
Try this.Calimero preview 2

In this preview the tabel editor is not a window, but a separate layer of the document window.

Q/A:

How i can insert a Tabel?
A: Klick in the menu of Calimero the entry "Insert / Tabel". Now it apears a tabel with default size.

I wish to insert a tabel with different sizes. How i can take this ?
A: Go to the programsettings and enter the list entry "Tabel". There you can edit the size of every tabel.

I can't move the tabel. What's this ?
A: Select in the toolbar the "Tabel" - Layer. This make it possible. Now you can edit every thing behind tabels.

How i can edit a Tabel now?
A: You can show the tabel editor layer with this two actions: Doubleclick the tabel or open the contextmenu of the tabel and klick "edit".

And close...
A: Simple klick with the cursor on a place without tabel. Now the tabel editor was hidding. Or push the "ESC" - button while editing.




@ amigadave: What do you mean now ? Can you test this ?

Quote:

Test what?

What does your question above, "What do you mean now? Can you test this?" mean to you? I don't understand what you are asking me.

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You will find a link to a new version right after the words "Try this" near the very beginning of pegasos-sigi´s post. He was suggesting that you test this version and report back.

I can create a table, and I can change its default value in the Settings, but I cannot move it or edit it at all, as the double-click does nothing, and there is no context menu that offers the option(s) you have mentioned while over the table area.

I don't know whether other users have had better use with it, but those are my observations of this preview of Calimero.

At the moment it does very little that is of use, well that is certainly true for me, but we can all hope you will get this issue fixed for the next 'preview' release.

Quote:

Doubleclick works and is connectet with the systemprefs "mouse / doubleckick"
If it dousen't work, wait between clicks more or less.

The contextmenu exitst. You must only select the right "Edit layer".
Take a look in the toolbar. On the left side exists three buttons: TextMode, Object Mode and Tabel Mode.
Select "Tabel Mode" and now you can reach the right context menu.
Now you can move a tabel, too.

And here a new Screenshot.
I add a Window to edit the cell borders.


[ Edited by pegasos-sigi2 09.10.2016 - 16:41 ]

Just a small note: its "Table" not "Tabel";)

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I was going to say the only way to get a context menu is when you select Drawing Mode that offers the function for Layer or Edit, but this does nothing to affect the table . . but wait/read on . . .
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Arghh ! There is no Table-Mode in the GUI for the preview that you have released, just Text and Drawing Modes - as in previous versions
Quote:
Not until an option to select 'Table Mode' exists in the GUI will this be possible it seems

[EDIT] - I just realised you added an additional image in the pic folder/drawer of the archive, and this triggers the Table Menu when added to the main Calimero 3.6 pic folder and the preview is launched from within that Calimero folder/drawer, so I now get the Table option, and I can edit the Table, but there does not seem to be an option to delete the table.

The border system in the settings seems 'clunky' as you cannot use the 'Tab'key to move from filed to field, you have to use the mouse to select each field, which as I say is annoying, and should also have, ideally, 'Hot-keys'/keyboard selection to be able to choose the Left or Right or Top or Bottom margin options, and also 'Hot-keys'/keyboard selection for RoWs and Columns, or whatever else you choose that would allow these options.

Quote:
That's a good idea,

There are some strange effects when trying to edit the table size or position.
Moving the frame outside Workbench screen holds the table inside Workbench screen.
Editing does work - at least everything seems to be marked. I can't edit the table after
creating it. Well its a preview and it works somehow.

Allways glad for updates - thanks so far!

Very good News: Calimero support nearly all table features now.

Screenshot 1
Now Calimero can edit nearly all table settings like border, row height, column with, background and contents.
Only joining cells is under consttruction


Screenshot 2
This screenshot shows sellected cells. Sellected cells shows darker like other.

New in this preview:
+ Export of tables to pdf Test file
+ Multisellecting cells
+ Background color and texture
+ Border color and appearence
+ Text align of cell contents
+ Row hight
+ Column width

To test this features: download

Quote:
awesome! i'm looking forward to getting MOS installed on a new drive next week and giving this a try.

-- eliyahu

Quote:
Not with the pre-release version 3 that I downloaded, besides which you keep allowing a download preview that does not contain the necessary 'pic' GUI elements that allow even the most basic functions relating to a Table, such as editing the text in it, so you need to include the 'pic' of a Table for the GUI toolbar in the archive.

The 'pic' folder is in the first archive you offered at the top of the page - Calimero_tabel.lha - so that is how I obtained the 'table' pic GUI element to activate the Table functionality, without that I might as well have been clicking forever more with nothing happening.

Quote:
I see 'Edit' 'Border' 'Row', 'Column', and 'Delete' options, but 'Border' is permanently 'ghosted', and 'Row' and 'Column' sub-menu 'size' is only ever 'ghosted' so does nothing either. The only ones that are not permanently 'ghosted' out and that actually do something are 'Edit' and 'Delete'. Edit allows the text to be changed, and Delete opens a Shell window where a '0' appears when you release the right mouse on 'Delete' - so basically also does nothing, as once the table is on a page - it's there until you either save the page as is, or quit the program.

I chose to quit the program - as I had hoped for a release that did something this time, but I cannot say I was disappointed too much as I am beginning to expect these flawed releases from Carsten, sadly.

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Ah!! the wonderful world of screenshots, but how about offering something next time that does not just let the user waste their time.
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It would be wonderful if these features actually materialise, but they certainly are not in the preview release you have offered, as far as I can tell, and as I have said the archives seem to be missing some of the GUI elements to activate some of the options you say are in the preview release. So, please check the requirements/elements for activating these features, and ensure they are in the archive when you make it available, as it really is currently wasting my time trying to evaluate it, sadly.

Quote:

It's not easy to understand, i know, but all this features are real and exists.
And yes, you are right. You need indeed one new icon.
If you realy try this preview (you dont't must do this...) download the archive in the first post There you can find this icon folder.

And very good news: In the next preview Calimero can join cells. The function joins two dimensional, too.
What the hell is this ? A: Calimero join cells to the right and bottom side.
I release the new preview, if i finish the function "unjoin" to split joind cells.

I know, the table editor is heavy to understand, but it is very powerfull.
I try to make a separate guide to explain the table editor.





[ Edited by pegasos-sigi2 19.10.2016 - 22:25 ]

First of all I should say - Carsten, why do you add into your reply message a full repeat of what I just mentioned, immediately/just above what you just wrote, as there is really no need for making these comments virtually 'bloated'. Please keep your comments concise/as brief as possible so it is as easy as possible to read through for anyone interested in this thread/discussion.

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That may be so, but they don't work as you mention they are supposed to do in the previews you have released, so why offer a preview that, 'does not do what it says on the label'?
Quote:
I have seen this issue also mentioned on the Meta-MorphOS website, so ideally these issues need addressing on that site as well.
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This is all well and good, but unless you are going to release a preview that actually does what you say it will, even if it is only at a Beta stage of development, then don't release another preview that does not do anything like what you say it will, as it is just too frustrating to bother with.
Quote:
A table editor guide would obviously be beneficial for users, but only if it does what you say it will, as so far, nothing has worked like you say it is intended to, sadly.

Ok. I try to make Calimero more end user friendly. But you must pushing buttons and clicking with the mouse like before.
To note: Calimero can*t scan your brain, and act like your meaning. You must do something to create something.

[ Edited by pegasos-sigi2 22.10.2016 - 13:10 ]

Quote:

Hi Carsten,

I agree to what NewSense said:
Quote:

I tried to add some pictures, but that does not work here.
Maybe I could send you an email including the ghosted options.

@NewSense: A new try: download

First at all: Please use this version with this includet icon !
It exists now two more tooltypes, that's needet by the prog.
Delete all settings of Calimero !
Insert the drawer "pic" from the archive of first post at this thread and use it.


Try this version! Insert a table and try to move it. Works ? Tell me the result.
Second; After moving works, take a look at the contextmenu. Select in this menu "edit.."
Works that ? Tell me the result.

You must only know, how amiga-like guis work, to use all things in Climero.
And to note: Ghostet entrys in the contextmenu ( or amiga menus at all...) tells you, that's anything is wrong.
The ghostet button "row / size" tells you: You haven't mark any cell or you haven't mark them enough.

Whow you can mark cells: Insert a table and click with mouse on it a single time. Now you can mark cells with the key combination
"R or L Shift + Mouse. Push the shift key and klick a single time with the mouse on a active table and move the mouse. A lasso appear.
This mark all cells, which center lies under the lasso.

[ Edited by pegasos-sigi2 22.10.2016 - 23:24 ]

@defender:

It needs a guide.

Carsten, I'd like to have tried out Preview 4 of Calimero v3.7, but . . . .

22-Oct-16 21:03:48
68k Exception 2 <Unknown Exception>
Task 0x2DD7A4D0 <Calimero prvw 4>
Dn[0] 00000010 20815e10 00000000 00000000 205ba0fc 2069b4f4 206d0000 206d0000
An[0] 2e331660 200bc868 3491dc58 2069b0ac 2e3317a0 208160d8 20001948 00000000
PC deadfee7 SR 0000
68k StackTrace:
PPC StackTrace:
[ 0] 0x10115b28 -> <@ABox: Module> Hunk 0 Offset 0x15b28
[ 1] 0x1010e9d8 -> <@ABox: Module> Hunk 0 Offset 0xe9d8
[ 2] 0x1010e8e8 -> <@ABox: Module> Hunk 0 Offset 0xe8e8
[ 3] 0x10119668 -> <@ABox: Module> Hunk 0 Offset 0x19668
[ 4] 0x2244a440 -> <@MOSSYS:LIBS/trance.library> Hunk 1 Offset 0x4948
[ 5] 0x11007494 -> <@ABox: Emulation> Hunk 0 Offset 0x7494
[ 6] 0x11008c48 -> <@ABox: Emulation> Hunk 0 Offset 0x8c48
[ 7] 0x2087ea70 -> <@DoMethodMOSSYS:LIBS/muimaster.library> Hunk 1 Offset 0x9aa28
[ 8] 0x20817a70 -> <@MOSSYS:LIBS/muimaster.library> Hunk 1 Offset 0x33a28
[ 9] 0x2087ea04 -> <@MOSSYS:LIBS/muimaster.library> Hunk 1 Offset 0x9a9bc
[10] 0x2d5dcdd8 -> <@DoMethodCalimero prvw 4> Hunk 1 Offset 0x2e2d30

So, when you get this issue fixed let me know, and I'll try it out once more. It is very frustrating getting your software and having these issues with them virtually each time, but I'm a patient guy . . . . so I'll be waiting to hear back from you.

I should also say to you that I have used TurboCalc, PageStream, Datastore, Wordworth, Final Writer, MSWord, OpenOffice, well you may have already got the picture - I know how to click a mouse button, and move about a page of a document or spreadsheet, or table, BUT Calimero is not in the same league as those programs as it stands.

It has potential, but it is not being realised at the moment.

The most important thing for a program that handles text is to get the text-handling correct before anything else, and then, and only then, move onto other features that you want to implement, one-at-a-time.

Then, get each one working correctly, ideally with feedback that it is working correctly from lots of users, or at least from ones you know you can trust . . . . before adding in something else to over-complicate the program and make it buggy for any user. That is IMHO.

@defender: Can you test this preview? Can you start it?

@Newsense: To low informatinons. I can't find a bug with this low informations.

You can help me, if you start the logtool from the sdk first, and send me the log.

[ Edited by pegasos-sigi2 23.10.2016 - 02:19 ]

I've run the log-tool, and there's too much data to transfer into this thread (<60k) so I've sent that to you via a PM as it will just mess up this thread probably unnecessarily. ENJOY !

Quote:

Ok. I found the bug ... In the front of your screen.

I can reproduce your log if i delete the icon of Calimero and try to make a table, normal text and so on..
I haven't install it in the dir and start it directly on the ram: after unpacking.
The result is this log like yours

Why you try my prog alone on the ram: without a icon ?????????????????? And i can reproduce this behavior !

My prog needs things like a icon (tooltypes !!) and some pathes to dictionarys.

You can't even try progs like pagestream, or OWB without the icon and the rest of there directorys. That's result in crash or a simple
non function .

Is Pagestream or OWB buggy without the rest of there dirs ?? NO

@ pegasos-sigi2

How often has it happened that users reported running into severe problems that were related to largely incomplete test archives (missing graphics, etc.)?

Based on these experiences, wouldn´t you agree that it might be worth it to take an extra minute or two to pack and publish only test archives that include all files that are necessary to properly test your application?

Not everyone who visits your Calimero discussions threads and is willing to give it a quick run has the time to read every post and to download every referenced archive and to then combine the files from the correct two archives to hopefully end up with a working version.

Please consider making it as easy as possible for users to participate in the testing by always providing a complete archive. Thank you.