>>> Aladdin4D is just vaporware.

>> I think it's obvious that this program exists up to version 5.0.

> It was [...] promised to bring new Amiga and MorphOS versions. Besides
> promising this again and again, making fun of potential buyers and baiting
> buyers with a Mac screenshot and a Mac video nothing ever materialized.
> [...] Thisi s why I call it vapourware.

I still don't understand how the vapourwareness of "new Amiga and MorphOS versions" of Aladdin4D (i.e. v6.0+) can make Aladdin4D in general (i.e. including versions through v5.0) vapourware.

> Eyelight was an Italian company, right?

Right.

http://web.archive.org/web/20020603175959/http://eyelight-it.com/contact.html

> potgo.resource [...] seems to be complete for AROS since 2008
> http://aros.sourceforge.net/pl/introduction/status/potgo.php

I read there "0%". See also http://aros.sourceforge.net/introduction/status/resources.php .

Zero is true. Read the wrong bar and thought it was done already. Could potgo.resource be taken from UAE? Do they have it?

connor wrote:,
Quote:

NewTek made the jump from Amiga 680x0 to PPC somewhere between versions 5.x and 7.x, or 8.x, so maybe the best 3D program for MorphOS3.1 would be to try to get NewTek to allow 3rd party developers do a port of LightWave3D PPC to MorphOS3.1?

At least NewTek still remembers and will return emails from Amiga users. They might even still be providing support for their old Video Toaster & Flyer Zorro cards? I know they were up to a few years ago.

The PPC version of LightWave3D for Mac computers might be the easiest and best 3D program to port to MorphOS3.1. It has a well known interface, that some think is the most user friendly and easy to use. Another benefit to porting the PPC version of LightWave3D for MacOS, is that many MorphOS3.1 users already have experience using the Amiga version of LightWave3D, so they know how to use it and don't have to learn another 3D interface, like Blender, which can be daunting, specially for new 3D artists.

I know this is probably not a feasible option and NewTek may not allow, or be interested in having their PPC version of LightWave3D ported to a platform that has maybe only 500 to 700 users, and even if the port could also include OS4.x users, that would only add another 500 to 700 users, which is not enough for NewTek to become interested in spending any of their money, or resources on such a project. Only if it did not cost NewTek anything, and if it could give them the possibility of a few new LightWave3D users, who might then buy their latest product for their Windows, or MacOSX computers, then maybe they would consider allowing some 3rd party programmers to do the port to MorphOS3.1 and/or OS4.1.5.

Not likely, but just an idea, if any programmer wants to contact NewTek and ask if it would be possible.

Edit: Maybe a port is not necessary if a PPC emulator of MacOSX can run on MorphOS3.1. Then we just launch LightWave3D for MacOSX from the emulator.

[ Edited by amigadave 14.08.2012 - 12:00 ]

> Could potgo.resource be taken from UAE? Do they have it?

I doubt there is such thing in UAE as it isn't needed there. UAE emulates a complete hardware Amiga after all, so that within the emulation the original potgo.resource simply works.

> maybe the best 3D program for MorphOS3.1 would be to try to get NewTek to
> allow 3rd party developers do a port of LightWave3D PPC to MorphOS3.1? [...]
> The PPC version of LightWave3D for Mac computers might be the easiest and
> best 3D program to port to MorphOS3.1.

Unless LightWave 3D for MacOS/PPC has been written in PPC ASM it wouldn't be substantially (if at all) easier than attempting to port any x86 version to MorphOS.

> Maybe a port is not necessary if a PPC emulator of MacOSX can run on
> MorphOS3.1. Then we just launch LightWave3D for MacOSX from the emulator.

MorphOS runs on PPC, so a PPC emulator wouldn't be necessary obviously. Quite to the contrary, it would make it crawl. What would be needed for MorphOS is a virtualization software (not an emulator, so doesn't emulate the CPU) that can run MacOS/PPC, just like Mac-on-Linux/Mac-on-Mac or SheepShaver do on Linux/PPC and MacOSX/PPC.

Andreas_Wolf wrote:,
Quote:

It is entirely possibly that parts of LightWave3D for MacOS/PPC ARE written in PPC Assembler Language, as it is a program that needs lots of CPU performance to work well and writing parts of it in Assembler Language would probably increase it's speed (although some will argue that modern compilers of other programming languages can do just as good as a person writing PPC Assembler Language), but only NewTek would know if any parts of LightWave3D are written in Assembler Language.

Quote:

Don't separate my statement of "PPC emulator" from the words that follow it, as that changes the meaning of what I wrote. "PPC emulator of MacOSX" is a very different thing than just "PPC emulator". It should be understood that a "PPC emulator of MacOSX" equals an emulator of MacOSX that runs on PPC. I could have written it more clearly if I just wrote SheepShaver for MorphOS3.1, but I did not think my meaning would be misunderstood.

So, what I was trying to write, was that it would probably be easier to complete a port of SheepShaver to run on MorphOS3.1, than it would be to complete a port of LightWave3D PPC to MorphOS3.1, but only a real programmer would know if that assumption is true or not.

Sorry if I confused you about the meaning of my posting. I know that the use of the words "of", or "for", or other parts of the English language can be confusing to some people who's native language is not English, but your English skills are very good, so I am surprised you did not figure out my meaning, even though I could have written it more clearly.

[ Edited by amigadave 15.08.2012 - 12:28 ]

> It is entirely possibly that parts of LightWave3D for MacOS/PPC ARE written in
> PPC Assembler Language, as it is a program that needs lots of CPU performance
> to work well and writing parts of it in Assembler Language would probably increase
> it's speed

True. If that's the case, then a MacOS/PPC version would be better portable to MorphOS than any x86 version with those same parts written in x86 ASM instead. That said, I assume those parts represent only a tiny fraction (if any) of the entire source code, so the real world difference in difficulty of porting the MacOS/PPC version versus porting any x86 version, with quantitatively the by far biggest part of the source code of either version in high level language (for easier maintainability and better compatibility between the versions for different CPUs), shouldn't be that big.

> It should be understood that a "PPC emulator of MacOSX" equals an emulator of
> MacOSX that runs on PPC.

Okay, I see now that you meant a [PPC [emulator of MacOSX]] rather than a [[PPC emulator] [of MacOSX]]. Sorry for misreading that. The reason I didn't get your meaning is that I know very well what a "PPC emulator" (= emulator of PPC) is, but wouldn't even know what an "emulator of MacOSX" is because as far as I understood your idea the genuine MacOSX from Apple is supposed to be running there instead of something that pretends to be (= emulates) MacOSX.

> I could have written it more clearly if I just wrote SheepShaver for MorphOS3.1

Yes, this would have been more clear to me as SheepShaver is not an "emulator of MacOS" in my book but a virtualization software that creates a virtual Mac hardware (sans CPU emulation) on Linux/PPC or MacOSX/PPC. Such virtualization software can usually even be used to run other operating systems like Linux (don't know if SheepShaver can, though).

> but I did not think my meaning would be misunderstood.

Sorry again that I did.

> it would probably be easier to complete a port of SheepShaver to run on
> MorphOS3.1, than it would be to complete a port of LightWave3D PPC
> to MorphOS3.1

Normally I'd agree, but there seems to be a problem with virtualizations that would transparently use the CPU on MorphOS:

https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=5230&forum=9&start=17
https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=6485&forum=9
https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=1903&forum=16&start=6

There's also iFusion for OS3/WarpOS but unfortunately that doesn't work on MorphOS either:

https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=1289&forum=9&start=16
https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=900&forum=9&start=13

> I am surprised you did not figure out my meaning

I hope to have made the cause for my misunderstanding and my reasoning transparent to you.

> Aladdin 4D 6.0 will work native on the platforms listed below.
> Mac OS X
> iPad
> Amiga OS 4.x
> MorphOS 2.5
> Linux
> AROS
> [...]
> http://www.discreetfx.com/Aladdin4D.html

...has shrunk to:

"Aladdin 4D 6.0 will work native on the platforms listed below.
OS X Lion
iPad"

Also:

"Aladdin 4D 6.0 will be available for OS X and iPad only"
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=708368

Seems Linux has been added again:

"To help expedite the release of Aladdin 4D 6.0 we are limiting the platforms it supports. We know this will come as bad news to many of its fans on the Amiga but the long release cycle is doing no one any favors. For version 6.0 Aladdin 4D will only be shipping on Mac OS X, iPad and Linux."
http://aladdin4d.blogspot.com/2012/09/to-help-expedite-release-of-aladdin-4d-6.html

[ Edited by Andreas_Wolf 20.10.2012 - 11:22 ]

Can't say I am too surprised. And I wouldn't buy it unless a 3d-mouse support is also there. Modelling with normal mouse and keyboard is long gone option. Cinema 4D still keeps going strong btw.

@Andreas_Wolf,

As someone who purchased iFusion PPC from Jim Drew long ago, I don't think it ever worked even on AmigaOS3.x, in any way that was really usable and productive.

Maybe other people got more use out of it than I did.

> As someone who purchased iFusion PPC from Jim Drew long ago,
> I don't think it ever worked even on AmigaOS3.x, in any way that was
> really usable and productive.

Yes, while I never used it myself I'm aware that iFusion left much to be desired, especially compared to the expectations caused by the announcements. I remember that a German Amiga dealer, who was the exclusive German iFusion distributor (but ceased operation in 2007), sold off the software for 9 EUR per copy in 2002/2003, which was probably way below the dealer's own cost.

Btw, interesting comment by the original iFusion author:
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=697799

Edit: Another interesting comment insinuating the illegal use of MacOnLinux and SheepShaver source code:
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=37471&forum=2#703327
...and the author's response:
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=37471&forum=2#703637

[ Edited by Andreas_Wolf 08.04.2013 - 02:09 ]

Update from DiscreetFX:

"here is a little friendly warning against hiring developer Deron Kazmaier to do any development work. After being paid in full to complete the development of Aladdin 4D 6.0 almost two years ago this developer either keeps stringing me along or ignores e-mails altogether. Regrettably Legal action is now being taken. [...] Legal measures will now right this wrong. [...] He harmed Aladdin4D development and all of it's customer base. [...] Development funds could have went to a sincere developer truly interested in Amiga/MorphOS/AROS software development instead of a thief that just wants to play games."
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=733953 (emphasis mine)

"Deron willfully accepted money to complete a project and is willfully choosing to not complete it or explain reasons for a two year delay. The far reaching legal consequences of this will be a result of his own actions or lack thereof. I tried resolving this the normal way but Deron chooses to just ignore it."
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=734017 (emphasis mine)

Wow!

>"here is a little friendly warning against hiring developer Deron Kazmaier..."

Paid up front and no reward after two years.
Ted got screwed.

> Ted got screwed.

Pyromania is Bill, not Tedd ;-)

Sorry, thought it was the same company.
Anyone wonder why there is no commercial software for our community?

Sorry, thought it was the same company.
Anyone wonder why there is no commercial software for our community?

no wonder.

>>> Ted got screwed.

>> Pyromania is Bill, not Tedd ;-)

> Sorry, thought it was the same company.

Tedd Gallion declared his departure from DiscreetFX a while ago. See:

"CEO DiscreetFX December 2004–Juli 2011"
https://www.linkedin.com/in/tedd-gallion-abb1256


Edit: Seems he's back: "Managing Director DiscreetFX Jan. 2021–[...]"

[ Edited by Andreas_Wolf 07.10.2022 - 09:56 ]

Thanks again Andreas.
I missed that one.
So another experienced businessman leaves the market.

[ Edited by Jim 07.05.2013 - 19:11 ]

>> Aladdin 4D 6.0 will work native on the platforms listed below.
>> Mac OS X
>> iPad
>> Amiga OS 4.x
>> MorphOS 2.5
>> Linux
>> AROS
>> [...]
>> http://www.discreetfx.com/Aladdin4D.html

>...has shrunk to:
> "Aladdin 4D 6.0 will work native on the platforms listed below.
> OS X Lion
> iPad"

It's back again:

"Aladdin4D is going Shared-Source! This will provide faster updates & new features
[...]
Aladdin 4D 6.0 will work native on the platforms listed below.
OS X Mountain Lion
iPad
Amiga OS 4.x
MorphOS 3.x
Linux
AROS
[...]
Aladdin 4D 6.0 Stable Release 6.0.0.26 (Internal Beta) / Janurary 17th, 2013."

Also:

"In an effort to renew development efforts for Aladdin4D we will be making it shared-source commercial software. What this means is source code to Aladdin4D 5.x & 6.0 will be shared with key programmers in the AROS, AmigaOS 4 & MorphOS communities. Money will be paid out to any major changes they make to the code for example adding a MUI interface, native MorphOS or AmigaOS 4 version. completing Aladdin 4D 6.0 for OS X Etc. [...] When DiscreetFX acquired Aladdin4D the dream was to have a modern maintained beginners 3D animation/rendering package for AmigaOS,MorphOS & AROS. Hopefully the shared-source initiative can make that dream come alive."
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=734163

"This shared-source initiative should help AmigaOS/MorphOS/AROS programmers and no longer benefit those only pretending to do the work and not even on AmigaOS."
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=734170

Sounds reasonable, but I still can not shake the feeling that it's all smoke and mirrors ...

In my opinion, Bill was probably still holding on to the hope that his friend would act responsibly.
Although I don't feel real comfortable with the fact that you can order it again (when the native version doesn't exist yet).
Still, Bill seems trustworthy.

@Jim

Customers requested that it be made available again.

> Bill was probably still holding on to the hope that his friend would act responsibly.

No longer are they "friends" I'd say:

"Aladdin4D current programmer "Deron Kazmaier" was fired on May 9th, 2013 do to lackluster performance. It's doubtful that he ever had the technical skill for developing 3D animation software. He was never even able to figure out how to make the program render anything but garbage. I blame myself in part for believing he could work on this type of software without any prior proof of concepts from him."
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=734255

Btw, what's also interesting is the Wikipedia article on Aladdin4D and its history. Does suspiciously look like the DiscreetFX CEO is an avid Wikipedia editor ;-)

> I still can not shake the feeling that it's all smoke and mirrors ...

"Aladdin4D is still in development. "
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=753428

"New better developers are working on it now. "
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=753433

"Aladdin4D 6.0 is back on track for AmigaOS 4"
http://aladdin4d.blogspot.com/2013/08/back-on-track.html

"progress is being made daily on updating the 5.x code-base into a new version 6.0 for AmigaOS 4, MorphOS & AROS. [...] The 5.x code is well documented and feature complete and renders beautiful pictures out of math. Beginning anew on Aladdin4D 6.0 in 2013 allows us many modern programming conventions that weren’t around even back in 2009. This should make version 6.0 when it finally ships a more solid well rendered release."
http://aladdin4d.blogspot.com/2013/11/normal-0-false-false-false-en-us-x-none.html

"AmigaOS 4.1 is one of the planned operating systems that will be support by Aladdin4D 6.0."
http://aladdin4d.blogspot.com/2014/08/rosetta-deja-vu.html

"Programmers are working on it, I just don't have a release date for you yet."
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=773657


Edit: added more quotes

[ Edited by Andreas_Wolf 22.09.2014 - 14:44 ]