im not talking about some hack, i meant a proper warm reboot.

"that works only maybe 8 times out of 10 (depending on the moon phase)" - whats this supposed to mean? where did you experienced this (on os4)?

Quote:
Well, one point would be the ability to have shutdown in MOS without waiting 2 years+ (or endlessly ?) for a possible MorphOS "1.5" :)

Not to mention some other things we cannot access today in MOS 1.4 that could be usefull as well...

Leo.

Quote:

But maybe it is a hack by design. Warm reboot implies you don't reninitialize peripherals, which may very well be in a quite random state. Then no wonder it sometimes fails.

Quote:

This figure is taken from aw.net forums. But if i believe my own experience (using OS4 in some parties), then it would rather be a 50% failure (after hard crashes, this warm reboot rarely succeeds). I didn't want to be too pessimistic, but you asked it, so there you are. :)

Quote:

That must be it! ;)

Quote:

Don't be so sure, remember, you have to deal with laire...

Quote:

I think very few people would even survive bootcamp. :P

Anyway, we do occationally recruit new members, depending on their merits (if laire "trusts" them) and they can handle the pressure of being harassed by rabid users daily about when the next release will be without going Zapek. ;)

Quote:

Huh? How do you recon that?


- CISC

Quote:

While i of course agree with you, you have to admin that the OF also leaves some devices in random state anyway... And also that properly written device drivers will reset devices on startup, so their previous state should be neutral to the OS. Of course some hardware on the bus can overwrite memory areas when they're unhandled and before their device driver gets loaded, so it still can be dangerous.

Also OS4 usually cold-boots slower than MorphOS, so they have a bigger need for this feature.

Can I have this as my sig?

Q:Sure, being inside the development team must be fantastic.
A:Don't be so sure, remember, you have to deal with laire...

Quote:

Guess he is trying to learn play football... ?

Code:

mmm... Italy won, Germany is eliminated now. So i guess Laire will never release the MOS 1.5 kernel.
We'll have another chance in ...4 years.

(i feel so sorry for Germany, i wanted a Germany vs France for the final round)




[ Edited by SoundSquare on 2006/7/4 22:39 ]

SoundSquare,

How do you know France will be in the final ?


Note, sorry for being of topic.

[ Edited by gunne on 2006/7/4 23:06 ]

@CISC: how do I "recon" ?

Leo.

Quote:

So its going to be Portugal vs Italy.

Quote:

Sorry, typo .. should be "reckon".


- CISC

Interesting Thread ;)

Will Laire make a comment one day about what MorphOS users are waiting for ages ??!!

What's still the problem which blocks MorphOS 1.5 release (if it's really exists somewhere) ??

It should be a good idea to give the REAL reason for non-releasing it !

Ambient is getting better day by day, why MorphOS 1.5 doesn't follow the same scheme ??

Faranheit (personnal point of view)

@gunne

Quote:

i don't ! that was just my wish !

sorry for the off-topic too.

Quote:
The real reason is that it's not yet ready. Simple as that. People want features. OS developers want an integrated, and well working system. It's so easy to say 'i want this feature, you don't give it to me, you suck!' as user, but things work a bit differently...

Quote:
I think Ambient is the best example how MorphOS "1.5" itself gets better day by day. When people ask me about how 1.5 is progressing, i always say them to take a look on Ambient. Ambient is mostly developed by MorphOS-Team members. Things work very similarly in case of not-yet-public parts.

Quote:

New extra fresh doodads with clandestine gibbers for that undefiled moolah feeling?

Quote:

There's no problem blocking it, we are the ones "blocking" it, for good reason, and we are probably more qualified at making that judgement than some random user who's never seen "1.5".

Quote:

It's the same reason as anything else not being released, and if you don't count that as real that's not our concern .. atleast we are releasing other things that we know are useful to the user in the meantime (3D and other updates, etc)...

Quote:

How do you know it doesn't?


- CISC

Quote:
Why can't you show them how MOS 1.5 is progressing then ? Just like Ambient. If it's being worked on (since two years...) as you are suggesting, why is its progress being kept so secret/closed ?

I mean: no official report about it. We have to read changelog of MorphOS programs to see that 1.5 kernel supports for ex. Altivec. We have to ditch forums here to see that releasing an Altivec 1.4 kernel is not possible because it would require too much changes,... Why ?

It would be so easy to officialy regularly say something about MOS 1.5 progress.

Leo.

I like teasers... I don't mind 1.5 to take a long time to be released... I like how the work is being done (it could be faster, but not in the current conditions), and I want to greet the mos team... it should not be all complaining.

Quote:
This isn't something new. The fact is that I you're working on MorphOS, and people are using it. They are *showing interest* in your work and also giving suggestions, reports,... While it is something *positive* in the first place, you seem to be turning it into something negative ("people are just whining", they don't have any clue,...). I don't know why, and I don't care, but I guess it is a problem to be working on an Operating System and ignoring the users.

Btw I don't think it would be a waste of time to write a page, let's say, every 6 months to say: "ok, we've worked on that, and that.". At least it would avoid endless subjects or messages sent to MOS-ML or posted here...

Oh, one last thing: it was interesting to learn something about OpenFirmware, and how MOS 1.5 will have an API for accessing power-management functions,... I just wish this appeared inside of some report and not in the middle of some subject lost in these forums... This is the kind of things that could appear inside progress-reports.

Leo.

Quote:

No, I appreciate people giving suggestions, reporting bugs etc, what I don't appreciate is what you are doing .. you are whining (about things there's no reason to whine about), and it's really annoying, and you should know this by now; you've only been told a "few" times already...

Quote:

See, this is the kind of nonsense we just don't need .. "ignoring users"? .. seriously? .. where (just in this thread alone) did I ignore the users?

We take our users seriously, provided they take us seriously, if they don't, well, why should we bother?

That means if you have a non-abusive complaint, question or request you should be able to count on us following that up, but if you spend your free time berating us instead, don't expect a courteous reply (if you're lucky you won't receive one at all).


- CISC

[ Edited by CISC on 2006/7/5 19:28 ]

SoundSquare,

Quote:

Congratulation for the winning and for the place in the final.

Ps. I dont know which team Im holding my thumbs for though. DS

And sorry for being of topic again...

I am not whinning. I may have in the past. Well, seeing what you wrote, let's say I *must* have (even if I wanted to have some constructive talks: I don't think asking for more information is something of bad intention, is it ? Well, you seem to see only bad intentions in what I post).

--
What follows is not whining: I'm trying (for the last time) to explain what I mean
--

Quote:

Ok, one simple question then: at least 2 or 3 different users (*excluding* myself) on this thread made some jokes about MOS 1.5 release, wondering what was blocking MOS release,... Someone else created a thread entitled: "is this time for a MorphOS update ?". This kind of threads are regularly created (and *not by me*).
Why ? Just to annoy you ? Just because they like stupid jokes ? Well, I don't think so. And that's what meant by "ignoring" the users: according to me this clearly shows some comunication is needed.

And I think the very few minutes you would spend doing it would bring *a lot* here.

And no, I never said you were ignoring technical questions, or specific questions,... On the contrary.

Leo.

Well, why do *you* think MOS 1.5 is not released, then?

Take your pick:
1. It's ready since years, but the MOS Team want to torture users.
2. It's ready since years, but laire is too busy playing Xbox360 to
release it.
3. It's ready since years, but it's based on stollen sources and can't
be released.
4. It's ready since years, but Zapek has made a voodoo doll and will
constantly tickle laire's feet if it's released.
5. It's ready since years, but the MOS Team can't decide on the
default wallpaper image to use.

I can't believe there would be any other possibility, can you?

@gunne

thanks ! that was just a mess last night and hard to find a few peaceful hours to sleep.

@CISC

I don't really get your point with flaming Leo here. I think he's quite right. There's a serious gap between MorphOS coders and users about communication. Leo is the one that tries to understand why users don't get any status report. And a lot of MorphOS users i know don't even dare to speak about that, just because they easily get a nasty reputation in the community for complaining or blah blah blah (i know the score).

Maybe you should just change your perspective a bit and understand that we, simple users, are not complaining but hungry for news and status reports (don't you understand/share this passion ?)
When the users will stop asking for it it will probably means that they don't care anymore. So at the end it's pretty positive huh ?

now sorry for wasting your time again. (all this time we wasted talking about that when it could have been used for status reports )