I like Polaris :)

Also, these teases are driving me nuts, I can't wait...

Too bad there are already web browsers called Polaris and Osiris. The problem with naming applications is that the good names are usually already taken.

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The UI is hardly rocket science. The fact that this is all ObjectiveC also helps speed things up - altho to get Bookmarks working I've ended up extending the mui.framework and fixing Listtree.mcc (ugh). Removed the Bookmarks window last night and refactored the class hosting the actual browser in a tab last night. Bookmarks, Settings, Downloads, etc will be accessible via wayfarer:// in regular tabs now.

@All: thank you for all the naming ideas, I really like them. Will stick to Wayfarer though.

Im really anxious to can try this beauty.
Good job Jacadcaps!

Pretty impressive pace you are walking running here. Quite a far way gone already the Wayfarer

[ Editiert durch Zylesea 06.07.2020 - 00:09 ]

Not all of the functionality works yet, but here's the downloads tab in Wayfarer.

Looking very good indeed! Will any open beta testing be made available anytime soon?

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As much as I'd like that, Wayfarer regularly requires an up to date MorphOS beta to run, so this is not possible. I have to fix stuff in MUI and mui.framework to make this app possible. Once most of the UI and WebKit features I have yet to enable are there, we can look into releasing an OS update with Wayfarer included.

@jacadcaps
Will it be possible to 'tear-off' the downloads tab later on?

You'll be able to open a window with just the Downloads tab in and hide the navigation bar. So I guess?

Yes, that would count as such. Of course the choices regarding the navigation bar should apply to the downloads window only? I don't know if there is a special floating-window-type possible instead.

@ jacadcaps

Maybe now would be a good time to ask if there are some additions to Wayfarer that aren't in OWB, and vice versa?

I ask now just while there is time to ask for features to be aware of, or possibly ask for (like the tear-off window mentioned above) that might get overlooked that really are needed/wanted while you're in the development process.

Though some limitations may well be part of the New WekKit engine/Wayfarer program anyway I suppose?

Of course, I don't want to side-track you from completing it as soon as you can, as OWB's limitations are really gettng more and more apparent/troubling, reCAPTCHA, and YouTube being just a couple, not withstanding the limitations of the JavaScript core that's also making some websites inaccessible/unviewable.

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There's a lot of things that OWB has that Wayfarer doesn't. In part since the WebKit doesn't support this yet, in part because I haven't had the chance to implement it in Wayfarer itself and in part because I did not even start looking into some of the stuff.

(Explainer: WebKit consists of several libs. WTF is low level stuff like containers, file I/O, threading, allocators. JSCore is the JavaScript engine. WebCore is basically all of the actual browser - that's where all of HTML, layout, CSS, networking, media, etc happens. WebKit is basically a glue between WebCore and a UI toolkit / OS. That part I'm basically writing from 0.)

I'm not going to bother with a lot of things that Fab did in OWB - Inspector being one example. Another thing that isn't happening is web activity LEDs OWB has (there's no provisioning for that in WebCore).

For some summary of what's working:

- A very recent WebKit with a standard JS interpreter with several big endian fixes. Compatibility with most websites is pretty good.
- Standard navigation controls
- Bookmarks
- Copy & paste
- Downloads (in progress, since that part isn't working well in WebCore itself)
- Very fast ad-blocking
- Per-host settings
- HTML Crypto (missing from OWB)

On the current TODO list:

- Settings UI
- History
- Sessions
- Storing passwords
- Spell checking
- Printing

On the maybe list:

- Media playback
- Composited display / GL
- JIT

As I've mentioned, compatibility is pretty good. There are sites that do not work though. Maps & Twitter being among them. These are unlikely to work anytime soon.

First of all, many thanks for the insight into what's intended, ideal, and may yet be implemented, and for your super-fast reply on the subject - as usual.

Will it be possible to save a webpage as a PDF, as with OWB, as I find that very handy, so a document can be saved for future reference/printing if required?

Will there be a Quicklinks option with mini-icons+editable name?

Will there be an option to load a Bookmark directly into its own new Tab from the Bookmarks, which cannot be done with OWB, though it is allowed from the Quicklinks with the right mouse button, though ideally it should also be possible from the middle-mouse button, as a 2-stage process to launch a new Tab is a somewhat unnecessary.

Will the webpage mini-icon be saved in the Bookmarks as it does in the Quicklinks, but which doesn't happen in the Bookmarks with OWB?

I'll miss the activity LEDs not being implemented as they are useful to know a page is still loading, etc., but if there's no way to do it then it's something that we'll have to let go. If pages load quicker then it won't be needed as much.

I hope the Download manager with resume and history support will be retained in some similar way? So, there are Current | Finished | Failed Tabs to be able to resume halted downloads from where they left off, and allow some sort of history caching of those downloads, not just webpage history, which I know you are already working on.

As usual, I'm impressed with the progress you've made so far, and look forward to getting to use it in a future release of MorphOS, as soon as you're satisfied you have achieved what you set out to do. Exceptional/Outstanding work.

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PDF is mostly "free" once you've implemented printing, so yeah.

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Maybe, certainly not a priority right now. There's a lot of various customizations you can do with the UI, but I don't see a point when basic functionality is missing. Many things will simply come after the initial release.

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Dunno. I have not investigated how these are handled in WebCore yet. Those icons actually end up costing quite a bit of performance in OWB (once you have a lot of them), so the answer for now will be "no, unless I figure out how to mitigate the performance penalty".

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Adding that would make rebasing to a more recent WebCore harder, so well...

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Working on resume since that part is, sadly, unfinished in WebCore. Guess Sony didn't really care about this (they wrote the curl backend). History will be saved, that's a given. Tabs won't be required since there'll be filtering and sorting instead.

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Thank you.

Not having the 'Inspect Element' option (program icon button/right-mouse context-menu), as I understand what you have already said on this feature, will that no longer allow certain features on a webpage, like removing some code, (e.g. footer) easily with Delete Node option be completely removed from what can be achieved with Wayfarer?

Some webpages have troublesome code that interferes with how the webpage should be displayed/respond, and sometimes I find I have to delete/change some parameters to get the page to function, either as intended, or to allow me to view certain parts of the webpage. So, if this feature is entirely removed then that will be, for me at least, a problem I am not sure how to get past very easily. Other than using an old release of OWB to do so, but as it gets older then this may not allow the necessary features to be edited as required.

So, if it is possible to put some rudimentary or more enhanced form of this feature into Wayfarer at some point, even if that is for a later release, then that would be a plus-point for me, and probably for other users.

Just few personal remarks...

Activity leds/network activity window and quicklinks are probably the most used features in the current OWB for me, as well as disabling javascript and spoofing for certain pages. So I'd be happy to see them if possible at all... using a proxy is also useful...

But I don't care about those website icons or other cosmetic stuff that much. I've always disabled those because of the overhead and useless writes to HD.

Curl itself has fine resume options, so it's quite weird that if WebCore doesn't use them.... it was really easy to add resume support in RNOXfer, for example :) But I rarely need to use that in real life myself... my network connection is stable enough.

And I don't care about the "current TODO" list entries that much... nothing important for me there (well, graphical settings would always be nice). But the "maybe list" is far more interesting, so if it would be my decision, I would concentrate on the "maybe list" instead of the "todo list" :)

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One way to influence how features are prioritized is PayPal.

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Remember that Apple doesn't use Curl at all, they have their own backend. The Curl backend was written by Sony and they didn't apparently care for downloads much (can you even download files in the Playstation's webbrowser?). While it may be easy to add resume to a curl client, there is exactly 7 interfaces between curl and the downloads list in Wayfarer (WebCore's CurlDownload, CurlDownloadListener I've implemented in WebKit, _WkDownload internal wrapper class, outer WkDownload class, WfDownload in Wayfarer, DownloadManager and finally the Download class with its list of downloads). And they all have to support resume.

@jacadcaps,

I applaud your willingness to post progress updates for Wayfarer on this forum site, but I hope that the frequency and number of feature requests don't bother you too much. I often wonder if the users who are asking for this feature, or that feature, realize how much of your time it takes to implement those features? Most users here are very appreciative with words, and I can only hope that they also send donations occasionally. IMHO, your work is nothing short of amazing.

And one important feature would be user configurable "Contextual Menus" when right clicking pages and links, because if we're not going to have the internal media player (initially at least), users should have an option to configure all those external scripts/programs for work-arounds for YouTube downloaders/streamers/etc.

I've also used this feature intensively for translating foreign pages to English, for configuring wget to download whole sites, etc. So it would be really nice to have this feature in Wayfarer too.

@ jPV - good points made concisely.

Small update: been focusing on finishing the base Downloads functionality. Resuming dls is finally working OK. Also added some minor UI things like MMB click handling (with optional shift to open in new window or alt to download) or page zoom via ctrl+wheel. Implemented the WebKit-side of password autofill, now looking into the Wayfarer side of things since that's what's going to control this and store the passwords.

Oooooooooh! Resuming downloads! You don't realize how useful that feature is, until you need it! Very nice!

If I haven't said it yet, thank you for taking on this task! It probably goes without saying that a strong, competent browser is the #1 app for any operating system these days!

[ Edited by redrumloa 28.07.2020 - 12:44 ]

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Great news.
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Neat !
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Personally I never store passwords or use autofill at-all on any computer system I own. I just don't trust any system to be totally secure from someone working out how to 'hack' any OS to gain access to any sensitive information, however minor it may seem. So, I wouldn't be using that feature at all, ever ! I can see some users like to have the ease of use of such a feature, it's just not for me.

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Set a master password for the browser and it'll be as secure as your https sessions basically. This is what you can do in Iris and this is what you'll be able to do in Wayfarer (since I'm reusing what I can). Passwords, unlike in plaintext-OWB, will be stored in an encrypted container.

[ Edited by jacadcaps 29.07.2020 - 02:48 ]