This is another thread who's questioning the future of the Pegasos + MorphOS. My questions are: what should be done to make the MorphOS + Pegasos much more public (in a positiv way!). What will bring him to doom? (like its just happening because of misunderstandings/-acts by different persons (+Genesis personell, too!)

Do you mean what should *we do* or what Genesi should do?

What we should do is support and promote the platform... believe it or not there are people out there who think there is 'nothing to buy'. Whilst this might currently be true of AmigaOne/OS4 (since I don't discuss linux) it certainly isn't true of Peg II / MOS. It's a small opportunity but we can easily do this. Commercial applications are starting to appear that are MOS native (BurnIt, Papyrus, Hollywood etc.)...in addition to all the ports and Amiga back catalog.

What Genesi should do is do what they've always done, focus on the larger customers to get volumes and revenues up and support their developers.

This might primarly be linux sales but there are opportunities out there for a small OS such as MOS with custom applications...embedded systems, infotainment etc.

Why you ask the question, since the answer is so obvious

Steve

Get Printing to Work properly.
Get Firewire to Work. Some drivers (if needed) too. Especially for my external Firewire HD and Burner .
Release Papyrus Office, BurnIT and MotionStudio.
Make a more compatible Browser i could need it for online banking.

I agree that more needs to be done in the department of attracting larger companies to port applications to MOS. To do that everyone needs to tell there friends about the Pegasis and get them to buy one, then developers will see a market and make some good software! I've done this. I have all my old Amiga friends waiting to get a Peg now. I try to talk to new people that post at amiga.org about not wasting money on a classic system and tell them to get a PEgasos. Why spend so much on a low power Amiga to run the new apps that the peg runs now? Spread the word, and spread it far and wide!!!

@Acill

It's funny you mentioned it: I was going to buy a melody soundcard for my a1200, but it was out of stock. Then owner of the shop told me he was selling peg1's from the trade-in action....at roughly the same price of the melody card! Really opened my eyes

Very interesting would be a port of LinVCR.A Pegasos/Morphos based digital sat- (or cable, or DVB-T)receiver just by adding a PCI-card, that would make an ideal multimedia-platform, more interesting than any other Linux-pwered receiver. No fan, no noise. Very fast booting, ideal to port games to, internet-ready, DVD-ready, that would be the ultimate home entertainment center.

That is the only real market hole I see currently.

Yes... thats some of what I want to know. But what kind of Software is needed and in which priority. How we can support Pegasos/MorphOS as it seems Genesis "isn't paying" the developers to attract this platform. Should we start a Pay-Pal action to fund some development (like Amizilla) for further applications or should we wait that Genesis is developing it in the future??

Well, Genesi has done plenty to attract developers to the platform, phreeboard, discounts etc.

Ultimately it's not their responsibility to deliver the software..they must deliver a viable market..Chicken and Egg right?

Ultimately quite few eggs have been lain but not all of them are fertile (yet?). Some turned out stillborn (Coyote Flux?)

For those crying out for a web-browser - is this just a battle cry or do you really need all that flash/Java crap (personally I mean....)

Whilst we're talking about PayPal schemes etc - As a point of interest, the bounty for a native beta of 'zilla/firebird/firefox...now stands at $8,720!!!

AmiZilla Project

I could write off my credit card debt if I could code!!!

Steve

well for now i think there should be faster as , possible a working machine , printing, scanning and a open driver support like in Linux to use 3D and all kind of hardware,,,, anyway i remember the good old BEOS Days and NEXT CUBE and all of those supperb Systems ,,,,so ... let Morph be a Software for
Video , Grafik , Multimedia and Fun thats all Poeple like today having FUN on Computers ,,,

Maurix

Well, for an idea we could apply the AROS bounty approach. Those who would like to make the development of a decent browser, firewire stack, whatever faster could set up or donate to existing bounties.

Question is, who would handle the incoming cash, and who would assign the tasks and decide if the bounty has been reached or not. I think it should be a feature of MDC, or handled by phoenix.

Actually, I think it's a good idea to set bounty for smaller tasks. (the problem with AmiZilla is that the task is too immense I presume - althought the money is immense too)

Or set it up here in morphzone. I somehow have trust in Targhan Are there legal problems concerning collecting money and handing that out for completed bounties?

I'd pay a few bucks for a Palm Desktop clone handling my Clie via Poseidon

In my opinion first thing that makes Pegasos what it is is it's price. And as far as the hardware cost more than really powered Athlon (which is twice as fast and can run "all software available") it won't became popular.

I did bought it and I'm quite satissfied with it (but I use Linux not MorphOS), but I do have answer the question very frequently: Why have you bought so expensive toy? Is it really that powerfull? And what can I say to this? That I'm a freak wanting to have some exotic hardware nothing really works on? 'Cos that's the real answer in my case.

M.

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Yup! Thats what I am talking about! For the price people are paying for a mediator, tower, accelerator and PCI cards you can get a Pegasos II that can do more and still have money to get a stock 1200 for games that hit th hardware if you want to. In my case I sold my A3000 with CSPPC/mediator, tower ect for exactly what I needed to build a Pegasos II system. I got $800 for it, and could have made more by selling the parts. The guy I sold it to seems to be doing that now. I dont care, I got my Pegasos II and its working great!

@Jony_Rico
A paypal fund would be a great idea to fund and attract more developers!! Also I am thinking of talking to some big computer stores like Fry's CompUSA ect about how to get the Pegasos in there. If Walmart can sell linux systems online, then these guys can get Pegs I think!

Instead of dreaming of an Pegasos Game Maschine with no customer around, Genesis should focus on more software for the existing PegI + II, build more of that + way cheaper to attract more users + developers.

by the way: JKD you wrote:

"Well, Genesi has done plenty to attract developers to the platform, phreeboard, discounts etc."

Am I correct or aren't there more and more developers who were screwed by Genesi and aren't developing anymore? It seems that there is sorrily also a big problem with "lost trust" in Genesi...

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Have you got ideas how can Pegasos II be way cheaper? It's already cheaper than most of it's PPC counterparts, despite the low volume. Larger volumes require something new to be invented - maybe a Games Machine, if the 3rd party asking for business plans is interested.

To spend more, you have to increase the income, to increase the income you have to spend more.

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Both Hungarian developers who received a Pegasos (a Pegasos I/G3 and a Pegasos II/G4) are still working. I think it's excellent developer support, considering a country where you cannot count sold Pegasoses in hundreds, rather in tens.
But if you have better ideas, don't hesitate, send them to Genesi

To build the Pegasos cheaper it might be better not to produce it in Europe but perhaps in a cheaper part of the world. Bigger volumes should be nice, too. Genesis should make better advertisement, the software is far from being sophisticated and complete for all desires.

The A1 is made in Taiwan, and it costs more than a PegII. Apple produces the computers in far-east, too. They are not cheaper, either. So better support the local economy. People without work can't buy a Pegasos.

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Hmm... I think a lot of that is becase they feel they can charge what they do. Apple has allways looked to attract the rich and Amiga hardware prices have just been gigh because they are. I think the value of the Pegasos is much better then any of the others so far.

The Apple in Our Eye

In the first quarter Apple generated $2 billion in revenue with 60% basically related to computers and the rest the iPod. If we study the profitability difference from a year ago we understand that the money is in the music (player). iPod sales were up over 750% from a year ago and contributed HALF of the growth from last year. More iPods were sold in the quarter than all Apple computers combined. For the first time iTunes made a profit in a quarter, while the 50 millionth download occurred.

=> Lessons learned: the END USER DEVICE is the KEY. If it helps people do what they do already and better and more conveniently (and be cool) -- it is a HIT. BTW, iPod sales are now helping drive Apple computer sales?!?!

The G4 computer business ranged from the $799 eMac to the iMac and the iBook to the $2999 17" PowerBook. Portables represented 48% of the computers sold. The G4 iBook was the star of the quarter and for the last year to date in terms of growth. In the QUARTER there were 623,000 G4 computers sold generating $871,000,000 in revenue. In the meanwhile, there were 206,000 G4/G5 PowerMacs sold for $398,000,000. As G5 sales demand grows, G4 sales will flatten. Apple will undoubtedly balance flat sales with lower prices in the G4 domain. Eventually, it won't make sense to do that any more. This is our sweet spot.

=> What does that mean for the future?

Well, first we have a big opportunity. If Apple can do it, so can we. Especially, if we can achieve a profit at a lower price than them. They have more overhead. As we become Partners with Motorola/freescale who make the G4 we should be able to do that, especially when we OEM it.

=> What do we do now?!

1. We have to be different. Being OPEN is the foundation. We need to rally the world of the Open Source and provide a direction and solid framework for development. We think we can do that. The Firmware is the first ingredient in the Open Power Architecture we will publish soon. Go Gerald!

2. Portability is key. A 1GHz handheld would be nice, so would a digital home/video game console. A total product roadmap is needed. We are working on it. At least we have a Partner now we can work with on this! The first step will be to make many more of the Pegasos II and for alot less!

3. The development platform for the future is here. It is the Open Desktop Workstation (ODW). We need to exploit that. The ODW introduction at Smart Networks Developer Forum (SNDF) is the first step.

===> We are looking forward to doing our best at SNDF. We have only opportunity before us.

R&B

Pssst...MorphOS is still the Trojan Horse...

Take a look at www.zvue.com for what I believe will evolve into the iPod killer. I've seen the future, it's in my zVue!!!

That is definately the idea...

R&B

I guess it needs a real LINK! So, everyone can visit, no?

Play *anything* and do it *anywhere*!!!

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I hope different means better. :-)
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You know Im a big fan of Open Source movement. Free software and open standards can bring power to small, yet skillful firm. But renember, we should get something form OS and give someting back.
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It would be nice, but is it possible?
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Hey! I was telling You this from the very first time we met. Pegasos would make fine devenv! :P

I'll repeat the message simpler because you missed it. Genesi does not currently appear to be a software company.

They continue to do things to attract developers adn ensure a good software base builds - this is a given for any hardware vendor who wants to sell hardware outside of any specialist niche or embedded application.

>Am I correct or aren't there more and more developers >who were screwed by Genesi and aren't developing >anymore? It seems that there is sorrily also a big problem >with "lost trust" in Genesi...

I want to address this but lets not drag this thread down too much...

There are two that are common public knowledge:

1. Dale on OpenBSD. We have both sides of the story in public domain and the ends match - it's all about the stalled cashflow. (Theo's rant was just a sideline and in many people's opinion largely unjustified.)

2. ShopIP - There's scant information about this other than the relationship going sourl there were some wild claims about IP ownership (not by Genesi) and some large sums of money relating to the opportunity. Other allegations have been refuted and no more is publically said by either party.

The third one (I am aware of) is a quiet one:

3. Coyote Flux - well nothing was ever produced and the relationship appeared to be still born. This was back in early Peg I days and I have no knowledge of what caused the rift.

I agree I have summarized quite extensively not with the intent of glossing over rather just to be quick. None of the above describes a pattern of deliberately screwing developers, rather a company with limited resources that hit a cashflow crisis. It's bloody unfortunate, especially for the employees who didn't get paid yet and the 'lost trust' thing...well, you just have to make up your own mind about that.

Steve

@warface:
I think it would be a great idea to try the AROS bounty model for MorphOS. Initially only a few smaller projects could be added just to see if there is an interest from developers. If it works out it can be expanded with more complex projects.

Who has the resources to put something like this together?

The Problem i see for portable Video Devices
is getting content for it. MP3 Players came when everybody has had a big bunch of MP3 at home, because everybody could easily convert all his CD's to mp3.

It will get more difficult to get hold of content for
Video Devices. DVD Ripping tools are kind of illegal.
For Digital Broadcast there may be a Broadcast flag.

Ways to go:
1. Digitize your old Analog Video as long as it lasts
2. Buy the on the go edition of a movie or documentation. But hey you already bought the DVD-so pay twice.
3.Pirate it, because it is not allowed/possible to convert your bought DVD's.